Ched Evans Wins Appeal But Faces Retrial

[Jon the Hat]

I've done a bit of reading on this since my last comments and by the definition of the law he probably is guilty, the law really does seem an ass though and the feminist paw is really pushing down on the scales of justice with some of the cases you read.

 

I reckon 25%-30% of blokes would be inside if everytime this sort of thing happened it was reported.

 

I doubt if 25-30% of blokes have shagged a girl their mate picked up while 2 other mates are filming through the window.

[Guest MattP]

I doubt if 25-30% of blokes have shagged a girl their mate picked up while 2 other mates are filming through the window.

 

Fair.

 

I meant regarding women who are considered in no position to consent.

[FrankieWorthoYaggedMyWife]

True; if the wage of a League 1 footballer is more important to her than the value of women and self dignity then all is good with her I guess!

 

Her dad is a millionaire so she doesn't need the cash. Maybe she just forgives her boyfriend for shagging another girl. Plenty of girls have done that before.

[David Guiza]

Fair.

 

I meant regarding women who are considered in no position to consent.

Of course Evans has probably fallen victim (I use that term very lightly) to the fact that he is a footballer and not your average man, but as you have acknowledged, the law is the law and in place to protect the vulnerable. Also, as Jon said, far too many footballers/folk in the public eye seemingly think they're untouchable and he probably didn't see that what he was doing was, at the very least, highly questionable.

 

Her dad is a millionaire so she doesn't need the cash. Maybe she just forgives her boyfriend for shagging another girl. Plenty of girls have done that before.

Forgives her boyfriend for sleeping with another girl, against her consent, after she'd slept with somebody else moments before - what a forgiving lady she is.

[Super_horns]

He's not actually signed for them - are they waiting to see how the other players react?

 

Or just ensuring he doesn't sign for a "rival club"

[Jon the Hat]

He's not actually signed for them - are they waiting to see how the other players react?

 

Or just ensuring he doesn't sign for a "rival club"

 

Why would they let him train if there weren't testing the water to sign him.  Wankers.

[filbertway]

Why would they let him train if there weren't testing the water to sign him.  Wankers.

 

If Morrisons hired him as a shelf-stacker or an accountancy firm picked him up as an accountant would they also be in line for the same abuse? Genuine question, just wondering if you think nobody should employ him or if it's because it'd be as a footballer.

[LCFC Rennie]

Can see him signing, cvnt. 

[Jon the Hat]

If Morrisons hired him as a shelf-stacker or an accountancy firm picked him up as an accountant would they also be in line for the same abuse? Genuine question, just wondering if you think nobody should employ him or if it's because it'd be as a footballer.

 

I don't know.  A football club should be accountable to their fans, and their fans made it pretty clear they dont want him.

[Guest MattP]

I don't know.  A football club should be accountable to their fans, and their fans made it pretty clear they dont want him.

 

 

Have they? Most opinions and polls I've read or seen have had the fans at about 50/50 over the issue.

 

 

Meanwhile Charlie Webster has resigned in protest at the club allowing a convicted rapist back into the football club. A month after this tweet gushing over convicted rapist Mike Tyson.

 

[filbertway]

Have they? Most opinions and polls I've read or seen have had the fans at about 50/50 over the issue.

 

 

Meanwhile Charlie Webster has resigned in protest at the club allowing a convicted rapist back into the football club. A month after this tweet gushing over convicted rapist Mike Tyson.

 

 

I assume that is why she bottled it.

[David Guiza]

Have they? Most opinions and polls I've read or seen have had the fans at about 50/50 over the issue.

 

I think the point is also that by employing somebody as a proffesional footballer, you are permitting the opportunity for fans to idolise him - regardless of if/how he turns his life around that is always going to be something that many people do not agree with.

As for working at Morrisons or as an accountant etc, that is completley different in my eyes - although I couldn't imagine an accountancy firm would hire somebody with a conviction like that anyway. There's not a chance in hell I could work in the legal proffession, and I wouldn't expect to either. I think I could make a safe assumption that footballer's in general are not the most adapable bunch when it comes to the working world, but his choices are not footballer or nothing.

Would anybody in favour of him returning to football maintain the same view with Oscar Pistorius when he's released? Just an interesting thought is all.

[Alf Bentley]

Here's the bottom line for me: If someone whom I cared about was lying paralytic in a hotel room and some bloke she didn't know walked in uninvited and shagged her, I'd consider that he'd treated her atrociously, even if he claimed afterwards that he had consent (and we only have his word for that - remember, Evans claimed that it was McDonald who asked for his consent; McDonald claimed Evans asked himself). A jury examined the evidence and found him guilty of rape. I've yet to hear any convincing argument that it was a miscarriage of justice. But even if he won a legal appeal, I'd consider that he'd behaved atrociously. He has a right to rebuild his life, but not to seek public acclaim.

 

Maybe some people would be happy for their mother, partner, sister or daughter to be treated like that? Or maybe, at least, they'd feel that it was her fault for being so pissed in the first place and for not remembering whether or not she said "yes"? 

 

Maybe they'd be happy for a bloke who'd behaved like that to be cheered to the rafters by thousands of fans, chanting "Ched Evans! He scores when he wants!" (you know it'll happen)? Maybe they'd just hope that their mother, partner, sister or daughter didn't hear about that?

 

Like Matt, my impression is that a lot of Blades fans want Evans back (DK precise proportion), but even if only 50% or less don't, that's a hell of a lot of people to alienate....people who presumably feel fairly strongly as they'd otherwise want someone back when he'd been a prolific goalscorer for their team. That's another issue. I wonder how many would want him back if he was a journeyman bench player? If it's much lower than for Evans, that shows a lot of fans don't care much about such conduct.

 

Matt, have 25%-30% of blokes you know really gone uninvited into the bedroom of a woman they didn't know while stone cold sober (Evans was sober; only the girl was paralytic) and shagged her, knowing that she was paralytic?!? I know that I'm an out-of-touch old git, but I'd find that really shocking, if true. I can imagine that 25%-30% may have shagged someone they'd just met while drunk themselves - or come onto women (or men) in that state. I'd be in that 25%-30% myself, I'm not proud to say. But surely Evans' behaviour went well beyond the sort of dodgy, drunken behaviour that a lot of people are guilty of?

 

As for Ms. Webster's tweet: a pretty stupid thing to say, obviously, even if she meant it ironically (and it sounds like she didn't). However, that's a distraction from the serious issue - and she's apologised for her comment, according to the Mail:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2830822/Sheffield-United-patron-Charlie-Webster-resigns-role-club-following-return-convicted-rapist-Ched-Evans.html

'I am not going to stand here and say she said this, I said that. I am not going to comment on her but I have apologised and find it very sad that's taken away from what I said this morning.

I did not think about that tweet at the time and I'm not proud of that tweet but the response has been another example of berating someone for speaking out against rape.

But I am not thinking about Mike Tyson. I am thinking about Ched Evans. The reason people don't stand up to rape is because they get abused on Twitter for it.

The victim has had to take on a new identity and had a hate campaign against her. Nobody should have to go through that. I would ask the community to get behind the victim.'

[Kitchandro]

Here's the bottom line for me: If someone whom I cared about was lying paralytic in a hotel room and some bloke she didn't know walked in uninvited and shagged her, I'd consider that he'd treated her atrociously, even if he claimed afterwards that he had consent (and we only have his word for that - remember, Evans claimed that it was McDonald who asked for his consent; McDonald claimed Evans asked himself). A jury examined the evidence and found him guilty of rape. I've yet to hear any convincing argument that it was a miscarriage of justice. But even if he won a legal appeal, I'd consider that he'd behaved atrociously. He has a right to rebuild his life, but not to seek public acclaim.

 

Maybe some people would be happy for their mother, partner, sister or daughter to be treated like that? Or maybe, at least, they'd feel that it was her fault for being so pissed in the first place and for not remembering whether or not she said "yes"? 

 

Maybe they'd be happy for a bloke who'd behaved like that to be cheered to the rafters by thousands of fans, chanting "Ched Evans! He scores when he wants!" (you know it'll happen)? Maybe they'd just hope that their mother, partner, sister or daughter didn't hear about that?

 

Like Matt, my impression is that a lot of Blades fans want Evans back (DK precise proportion), but even if only 50% or less don't, that's a hell of a lot of people to alienate....people who presumably feel fairly strongly as they'd otherwise want someone back when he'd been a prolific goalscorer for their team. That's another issue. I wonder how many would want him back if he was a journeyman bench player? If it's much lower than for Evans, that shows a lot of fans don't care much about such conduct.

 

Matt, have 25%-30% of blokes you know really gone uninvited into the bedroom of a woman they didn't know while stone cold sober (Evans was sober; only the girl was paralytic) and shagged her, knowing that she was paralytic?!? I know that I'm an out-of-touch old git, but I'd find that really shocking, if true. I can imagine that 25%-30% may have shagged someone they'd just met while drunk themselves - or come onto women (or men) in that state. I'd be in that 25%-30% myself, I'm not proud to say. But surely Evans' behaviour went well beyond the sort of dodgy, drunken behaviour that a lot of people are guilty of?

 

As for Ms. Webster's tweet: a pretty stupid thing to say, obviously, even if she meant it ironically (and it sounds like she didn't). However, that's a distraction from the serious issue - and she's apologised for her comment, according to the Mail:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2830822/Sheffield-United-patron-Charlie-Webster-resigns-role-club-following-return-convicted-rapist-Ched-Evans.html

'I am not going to stand here and say she said this, I said that. I am not going to comment on her but I have apologised and find it very sad that's taken away from what I said this morning.

I did not think about that tweet at the time and I'm not proud of that tweet but the response has been another example of berating someone for speaking out against rape.

But I am not thinking about Mike Tyson. I am thinking about Ched Evans. The reason people don't stand up to rape is because they get abused on Twitter for it.

The victim has had to take on a new identity and had a hate campaign against her. Nobody should have to go through that. I would ask the community to get behind the victim.'

 

You can't think like the alleged victim or the alleged victim's family, that completely misses the point. This isn't really an issue about how the victim feels, he's paid his debt in the eyes of the law. The club aren't thinking form their point of view.

 

Clubs do have a responsibility to their fans though. If the majority were against it they shouldn't sign him. And, IMO, if the club do believe he's a rapist, they shouldn't sign him.

 

Who knows, maybe the manager won't necessarily want to sign him. Maybe he's not the kind of character he wants around the club. But that's another matter.

[Finnegan]

I can't be bothered to contribute as eloquently and thoroughly as Alf so I'll just say I agree with the vast amount of what he said and I'm not an out of touch old git.

[Manwell Pablo]

Obviously not as much as you have, but I know he's a convicted rapist.

 

You might be dragged in by all these plea's of innocence but he clearly didn't fool the courts.

 

Ah well, as long as he's not the only one, that makes it alright then.

 

The bottom line is that only Ched 100% knows. It takes an evil man to act his innocence when deep down he knows he's done seriously wrong. Where even is his victim now? suffering in anonymity I should imagine.

 

Doubt it, didn't she put something on twitter about having made it, and having made a load of money out of this and not knowing what to spend it on. Lets remember she can't remember the incident at all so I doubt it's left much of a scar. 

 

It is all well and good saying don't take advantage of a drunk girl, he was probably just as drunk himself, yet he is supposed to be able to make rational decisions and she is deemed unable to do so?

 

Something seriously wrong with this case.

[leicsmac]

Doubt it, didn't she put something on twitter about having made it, and having made a load of money out of this and not knowing what to spend it on. Lets remember she can't remember the incident at all so I doubt it's left much of a scar. 

 

It is all well and good saying don't take advantage of a drunk girl, he was probably just as drunk himself, yet he is supposed to be able to make rational decisions and she is deemed unable to do so?

 

Something seriously wrong with this case.

 

Evans was sober at the time of the incident, apparently.

[David Guiza]

Doubt it, didn't she put something on twitter about having made it, and having made a load of money out of this and not knowing what to spend it on. Lets remember she can't remember the incident at all so I doubt it's left much of a scar. 

 

It is all well and good saying don't take advantage of a drunk girl, he was probably just as drunk himself, yet he is supposed to be able to make rational decisions and she is deemed unable to do so?

 

Something seriously wrong with this case.

Yes he is, of course he is, and he was sober. Clearly she shouldn't have spouted whatever it was on Twitter, but that doesn't take anything away from the crime.

 

If you have, or in the future, have a daughter I sincearly hope those aren't the kind of morals you will be preaching to her. That kind of attitude is part of the reason as to why rape culture is rife in the UK. There seems to be a percepiton that the crime of rape is souly a woman saying no and the man proceeding anyway, which is not true. Taking advantage of a drunk person who cannot be considered in a fit state of mind to consent to sex is immoral and illegal; regardless of gender or circumstance. 

[Manwell Pablo]

Evans was sober at the time of the incident, apparently.

 

Yeah I've just read that, which makes it a bit dodgier than I originally though I have to admit.

[Guest MattP]

I think the point is also that by employing somebody as a proffesional footballer, you are permitting the opportunity for fans to idolise him - regardless of if/how he turns his life around that is always going to be something that many people do not agree with.

As for working at Morrisons or as an accountant etc, that is completley different in my eyes - although I couldn't imagine an accountancy firm would hire somebody with a conviction like that anyway. There's not a chance in hell I could work in the legal proffession, and I wouldn't expect to either. I think I could make a safe assumption that footballer's in general are not the most adapable bunch when it comes to the working world, but his choices are not footballer or nothing.

Would anybody in favour of him returning to football maintain the same view with Oscar Pistorius when he's released? Just an interesting thought is all.

 

If it was a violent rape I think my opinion would be different, I don't think it's even comparable to Oscar Pistorius who blew a person's brains out.

 

Maybe some people would be happy for their mother, partner, sister or daughter to be treated like that? Or maybe, at least, they'd feel that it was her fault for being so pissed in the first place and for not remembering whether or not she said "yes"? 

 

Maybe they'd be happy for a bloke who'd behaved like that to be cheered to the rafters by thousands of fans, chanting "Ched Evans! He scores when he wants!" (you know it'll happen)? Maybe they'd just hope that their mother, partner, sister or daughter didn't hear about that?

 

Like Matt, my impression is that a lot of Blades fans want Evans back (DK precise proportion), but even if only 50% or less don't, that's a hell of a lot of people to alienate....people who presumably feel fairly strongly as they'd otherwise want someone back when he'd been a prolific goalscorer for their team. That's another issue. I wonder how many would want him back if he was a journeyman bench player? If it's much lower than for Evans, that shows a lot of fans don't care much about such conduct.

 

Matt, have 25%-30% of blokes you know really gone uninvited into the bedroom of a woman they didn't know while stone cold sober (Evans was sober; only the girl was paralytic) and shagged her, knowing that she was paralytic?!? I know that I'm an out-of-touch old git, but I'd find that really shocking, if true. I can imagine that 25%-30% may have shagged someone they'd just met while drunk themselves - or come onto women (or men) in that state. I'd be in that 25%-30% myself, I'm not proud to say. But surely Evans' behaviour went well beyond the sort of dodgy, drunken behaviour that a lot of people are guilty of?

 

As for Ms. Webster's tweet: a pretty stupid thing to say, obviously, even if she meant it ironically (and it sounds like she didn't). However, that's a distraction from the serious issue - and she's apologised for her comment, according to the Mail:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2830822/Sheffield-United-patron-Charlie-Webster-resigns-role-club-following-return-convicted-rapist-Ched-Evans.html

'I am not going to stand here and say she said this, I said that. I am not going to comment on her but I have apologised and find it very sad that's taken away from what I said this morning.

I did not think about that tweet at the time and I'm not proud of that tweet but the response has been another example of berating someone for speaking out against rape.

But I am not thinking about Mike Tyson. I am thinking about Ched Evans. The reason people don't stand up to rape is because they get abused on Twitter for it.

The victim has had to take on a new identity and had a hate campaign against her. Nobody should have to go through that. I would ask the community to get behind the victim.'

 

You can't think like that though, as people like me who are told so often when arguing for stricter punishments for criminals we have to completely disown any thoughts of emotion when making a judgement on things like this.

 

Football fans are strange people Alf, you know that, we threw our moral compass out the window as a sport years ago, we're happy to have foriegn criminals bankrolling us to success and I've no doubt more people would turn towards Ched's side if he started banging in the goals. Maybe I have a warped morals but I actually would feel more annoyance at us signing Marlon King who was jailed for smashing a girl in the face for turning down his sexual advances than Ched Evans for this act of uninvited debauchery. (although I have to admit if he was sober that doesn't sound great at all to his claims)

 

As for Webster, I just find it a little bit ridiculous someone can come across as such an activist and be so principled on someone convicted of rape then take the complete opposite attitude to someone who was convicted of an even more violent rape than the man she is supposdly taking a principled stance against, maybe black American girls who are raped don't deserve the same amount of sympathy in her eyes? Who knows.

 

As others have said as well, I have no sympathy for the girl whatsoever, from the Tweets she sent there's clearly no lasting damage and at the time she seemed to loved the fact she was going to try and get rich off sending a man to prison.

 

(P.S yes the 25-30% figure was in strict reference to having sex with a girl who would probably be considered too drunk to consent)

[Manwell Pablo]

Yes he is, of course he is, and he was sober. Clearly she shouldn't have spouted whatever it was on Twitter, but that doesn't take anything away from the crime.

 

If you have, or in the future, have a daughter I sincearly hope those aren't the kind of morals you will be preaching to her. That kind of attitude is part of the reason as to why rape culture is rife in the UK. There seems to be a percepiton that the crime of rape is souly a woman saying no and the man proceeding anyway, which is not true. Taking advantage of a drunk person who cannot be considered in a fit state of mind to consent to sex is immoral and illegal; regardless of gender or circumstance. 

 

I'll be preaching to my daughter about not getting paralytic and ending up in hotel rooms at the end of the night in the first place, thanks.

 

There isn't an exact formula for this though is there? What is too drunk, by all accounts she was still able to converse perfectly and during the act told Evans to "Fck her in the pussy"? If what someone has told me today is true.

 

 

If he was stone cold sober it is, at best, extremely immoral to take advantage of someone who is perhaps not thinking as straight as they normally would be. She still doesn't sound plastered enough to be totally unaccountable for her own actions if you ask me though. 

[David Guiza]

I'll be preaching to my daughter about not getting paralytic and ending up in hotel rooms at the end of the night in the first place, thanks.

 

There isn't an exact formula for this though is there? What is too drunk, by all accounts she was still able to converse perfectly and during the act told Evans to "Fck her in the pussy"? If what someone has told me today is true.

 

If he was stone cold sober it is, at best, extremely immoral to take advantage of someone who is perhaps not thinking as straight as they normally would be. She still doesn't sound plastered enough to be totally unaccountable for her own actions if you ask me though. 

Once again you're highlighting your ignorance with that statement, that's along the lines of 'Don't wear a short skirt because men will be all over you'. She should be able to go out and get paralytic without somebody having uncosented sex with her for Christ sake. I'm not a heavy drinker myself, but it is legal, rape/uncosented sex is not.

Unless she litterally consented it's irrelevant, simple as that. The same as if she she withdrew consent at any point during intercourse, it doesn't change matters. The only person who has ever claimed consent is Evans himself, who may well be telling the truth, but you can see why that is debatable evidence.

Each to their own, but the fact she was drunk shouldn't lessen his guilt in my opinion.

[Manwell Pablo]

Once again you're highlighting your ignorance with that statement, that's along the lines of 'Don't wear a short skirt because men will be all over you'. She should be able to go out and get paralytic without somebody having uncosented sex with her for Christ sake. I'm not a heavy drinker myself, but it is legal, rape/uncosented sex is not.

Unless she litterally consented it's irrelevant, simple as that. The same as if she she withdrew consent at any point during intercourse, it doesn't change matters. The only person who has ever claimed consent is Evans himself, who may well be telling the truth, but you can see why that is debatable evidence.

Each to their own, but the fact she was drunk shouldn't lessen his guilt in my opinion.

 

Ok now you're just being a moron

 

How is telling a young woman not to get so drunk that she isn't in control of her own actions (which you are saying that woman is) comparable to telling her not to where a short skirt, you idiot. 

 

You think it's fine to teach someone it's fine to do something which could lead to them doing something they heavily regret or even worse could lead to them being seriously hurt, and you question my morals. Pratt.

[Guest MattP]

Once again you're highlighting your ignorance with that statement, that's along the lines of 'Don't wear a short skirt because men will be all over you'.

 

It really, really isn't.

[Buzzell]

David Guiza having a mere.

Pablo is spot on.