Ched Evans Wins Appeal But Faces Retrial

[Manwell Pablo]

Oh FFS, come off it If Pablo had written 'it might be wrong to shoplift but I'm afraid some people aren't going to care and if there's no security cameras, people are going to do it given the opportunity' you would never picked up on the use of English and claimed that the author thought it MIGHT be an 'area for debate'. It's a common sentence structure and quite frankly I can't believe you've managed to twist it to question someone's morals. Unbelievable.

As for Evans, this is an impossible situation for Sheffield United and their fans. As much as I believe he has a right to work in whatever field will take him (as a convicted rapist who has served his time) as part of his rehabilitation and reintroduction to society, I wouldn't want him at City. Same as I wouldn't want him working in a school or even with me in an office. But he has served his time and whether that was long enough or not was a matter for the courts and should therefore be able to work. Whether that is as a professional footballer or not is irrelevant should someone wish to employ him - i.e. consider the benefits (goals/promotion) to outweigh the cons (negative publicity/withdrawal of small sponsors).

Marlon King and Lee Hughes - two further bilious creatures that were given the chance to rehabilitate themselves in the game and have done so. Wasn't Troy Deeney banged up for something too yet he's been able to move on with his life in football.

This shouldn't be about football - if he winds up playing Sunday League are there going to witchhunts at the local reccy? The area I believe we should be addressing here is whether we as a society believe that the punishment for rape is strong enough. Unfortunately if we genuinely believe in rehabilitation then we'll have to suck these situations up occasionally.

 

I appreciate the backing in the first paragraph but Marlon King is currently back inside after being convicted of a hit and run

[Captain...]

On the flip side, how many of you are going to tell their friends next time they come back from a drunken one night stand that they have been raped?

 

Can you imagine doing that?

 

your female house mate comes back from a drunken one night stand, a bit blurry a bit embarrassed, can't really remember the finer details of it. Are you going to tell her she got raped?

 

She just thinks she made a drunken mistake, are you going to turn her into a rape victim?

 

That is what happened in this case, she never accused them of raping her, she went to the police with a hangover and a missing phone and came back a rape victim.

[leicsmac]

I don't think that is true about the stigma. I've never known a woman be ridiculed for being raped. Not in western culture anyway.

 

Also the concept of "victim blaming" isn't unique to rape at all. There's also the concept of making people victims when they don't need to be.

 

Really? Whenever you've heard of a high-profile (or low-profile) rape case, you've never heard the argument "Oh...look what she was wearing, she was asking for it." Or "I'll bet she wanted it when it happened, but then she changed her mind afterwards." Or just, "Oh, she's just attention-seeking, making it all up."

 

That's victim-blaming, and you hear it all the time after rape cases. I agree it's not unique to rape, but it's far far more prevalent there than any other violent crime.

[Strokes]

On the flip side, how many of you are going to tell their friends next time they come back from a drunken one night stand that they have been raped?

Can you imagine doing that?

your female house mate comes back from a drunken one night stand, a bit blurry a bit embarrassed, can't really remember the finer details of it. Are you going to tell her she got raped?

She just thinks she made a drunken mistake, are you going to turn her into a rape victim?

That is what happened in this case, she never accused them of raping her, she went to the police with a hangover and a missing phone and came back a rape victim.

I wouldn't tell her I raped her no.

[Strokes]

Really? Whenever you've heard of a high-profile (or low-profile) rape case, you've never heard the argument "Oh...look what she was wearing, she was asking for it." Or "I'll bet she wanted it when it happened, but then she changed her mind afterwards." Or just, "Oh, she's just attention-seeking, making it all up."

That's victim-blaming, and you hear it all the time after rape cases. I agree it's not unique to rape, but it's far far more prevalent there than any other violent crime.

But what if the lass did make it up? Do we really know how many of these cases are fictional or warped? Its very hard to put up support for such cases, without actually saying we will believe the 'victim' regardless. Surely that's just as dangerous.

[Grandad.]

I find it hard to believe she let one footballer bang the shit out of her but when Ched whipped it out to bang her it was rape..

 

The woman went there to shag footballers and that's what she did.

[Captain...]

But what if the lass did make it up? Do we really know how many of these cases are fictional or warped? Its very hard to put up support for such cases, without actually saying we will believe the 'victim' regardless. Surely that's just as dangerous.

 

In this case she didn't make anything up, the police turned her into a rape victim, she didn't even know she had had sex, according to some sources. The only thing she could be lying about is that she can't remember anything, but that doesn't tie in with her going to the police.

 

That is why I don't understand anyone blaming her in all of this, the police decided she had been raped, she just wanted her phone back, if she hadn't lost her phone she wouldn't have gone to the police and they wouldn't have made any enquiries.

 

How fvcked up would it be if her memory did come back and she did remember consenting and that she did allow him to join in? Would it change anything? Would her remembering make her any less drunk and able to consent at the time?

 

This really should be a story line on Hollyoakes.

[Alf Bentley]

Kitch/Matt,

Victims and their families can't be allowed to decide court verdicts/sentences (though they can make impact statements), but the court case is over. They can and should influence our attitudes to people who have served their sentences....though people will have different attitudes as to what roles a criminal should be able to fill once they've served their sentence.

 

Manwell/Matt,

The girl joked on Twitter about potentially making money out of the case. Not great, but then she sounds like a messed up girl all round. That might just be an initial reaction, though, or bravado. Remember that it was the police who chose to bring the case - she only went to them as she'd lost her handbag/mobile and suspected (wrongly) that she'd ended up at the hotel because her drink had been spiked. Who knows what the effect will be on her? If I'd got completely out of it, couldn't remember what I'd done, but found out afterwards that a complete stranger had come into my room and had sex with me, I'd be seriously disturbed. Wouldn't you? Maybe she's so messed up, she won't care? But I saw a programme recently about South Yorks police investigating the grooming/abuse of teenage girls. They said that the victims often protect the abusers initially, but later feel abused to the extent of self-harming and attempting suicide. This girl has already had to change her identity to avoid abuse.

 

Matt,

Yes, as football fans we shrug off dodgy conduct by club owners/players, but we all draw a line somewhere, surely? We just vary about where we draw that line. If the Medellin Cartel or Romanian people-traffickers acquired ownership of LCFC, I'd stop going to matches; if Wonga took over, I'd feel a bit nauseous but would keep attending. Likewise, if one of our players gets done for punching a bloke in a nightclub or drink-driving. However, if we signed Ched Evans, my season ticket would go back. Marlon King would be 50-50 for me.

 

Echoing others:

In practical terms, it's unwise to walk through Moss Side in flash gear waving your wallet, to walk down a dark alley in a miniskirt or to get so legless that you don't know what you're doing. In legal terms, it is still a crime to rob or rape someone, even if they have behaved unwisely.

 

Captain,

- Maybe you should also consider it unwise to sleep with drunken women, if you're concerned about such women then calling rape? But are such fears justified? Could you quote a case where a man has apparently been jailed in such circumstances? I've just done a Google search and only got cases where there were other witnesses, defendant refused to testify etc. The conviction rate is very low for rape - and without other evidence or witnesses, it's very hard for anyone to be convicted in cases where it's "his word against hers".

- You raise McDonald again; have a look at the case papers: https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evansHaving concluded, after examining all the evidence, that the girl was unable to consent, the jury had to consider whether either defendant could have reasonably believed that she had consented (grounds for acquittal); McDonald got talking to the girl in the street, she got in the taxi with him, was talking to him in the taxi and was filmed walking into the hotel with him; in contrast, Evans hadn't met her before apart from stepping over her on the kebab shop floor and turned up in the bedroom uninvited. Surely you can see how the jury might have concluded that McDonald reasonably believed he had consent, but Evans didn't?

 

Manwell,

- "What's too drunk"? It's a grey area, if the woman is conscious. Try looking at the case papers, though: https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evansThe jury saw CCTV footage of the girl extremely drunk (lying on the floor of the kebab shop, pissing in the street), they had the hotel porter's witness statement saying the same and they had expert witnesses in court describing the effects of alcohol on the brain. They concluded that she was "too drunk". Who are we to disagree?

- You say "by all accounts she did verbally consent"; did she? Look at Evans' own site: http://chedevans.com/key-and-undisputed-factsHe told the police that McDonald asked the girl for consent for him. McDonald told the police that Evans had asked for consent. The girl couldn't remember a thing. Hardly convincing....and ultimately irrelevant as, rightly or wrongly, the jury concluded that she was incapable of giving consent

- Conversing is not a sign that you know what you're doing; quite a lot of people sleepwalk and sleeptalk, often not having a clue what they're doing

 

Dr. The Singh/Kitchandro,

If "doing your time" is enough, would it be OK for LCFC to employ Nick Leeson (the Barings fraudster) as financial director, Harry Roberts (released police killer) to run stadium security, Gary Glitter to sing on the pitch at half-time and Oscar Pistorius to introduce him once Birch retires? They've all "done their time" (or will have soon, in Pistorius' case). Committing particular crimes makes you unsuitable for certain jobs, surely! The Tory Minister Profumo certainly thought so. After he was revealed to have slept with Christine Keeler, who was also shagging a Soviet military bloke, and to have lied about it, he spent the rest of his life doing voluntary work - a lot of it cleaning toilets: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Profumo#Later_lifeI'm not expecting Evans to do that, but it would be nice if he accepted that, even if the girl did say "yes", he treated her atrociously (his only regret seems to be having got caught cheating on his girlfriend and causing upset to his family) - and sought a career where he didn't seek public acclaim.

 

Back to less sordid realities for me now!

[leicsmac]

But what if the lass did make it up? Do we really know how many of these cases are fictional or warped? Its very hard to put up support for such cases, without actually saying we will believe the 'victim' regardless. Surely that's just as dangerous.

 

No, but that's not the point. Just because a violent crime doesn't leave physical evidence doesn't mean that it didn't happen. The words of victims of rape should be taken as seriously as those who are victims of any other violent crime, and right now they are not.

 

Whether or not they are 'making it up' should be a job for the jury, no one else.

[leicsmac]

Kitch/Matt,

Victims and their families can't be allowed to decide court verdicts/sentences (though they can make impact statements), but the court case is over. They can and should influence our attitudes to people who have served their sentences....though people will have different attitudes as to what roles a criminal should be able to fill once they've served their sentence.

 

Manwell/Matt,

The girl joked on Twitter about potentially making money out of the case. Not great, but then she sounds like a messed up girl all round. That might just be an initial reaction, though, or bravado. Remember that it was the police who chose to bring the case - she only went to them as she'd lost her handbag/mobile and suspected (wrongly) that she'd ended up at the hotel because her drink had been spiked. Who knows what the effect will be on her? If I'd got completely out of it, couldn't remember what I'd done, but found out afterwards that a complete stranger had come into my room and had sex with me, I'd be seriously disturbed. Wouldn't you? Maybe she's so messed up, she won't care? But I saw a programme recently about South Yorks police investigating the grooming/abuse of teenage girls. They said that the victims often protect the abusers initially, but later feel abused to the extent of self-harming and attempting suicide. This girl has already had to change her identity to avoid abuse.

 

Matt,

Yes, as football fans we shrug off dodgy conduct by club owners/players, but we all draw a line somewhere, surely? We just vary about where we draw that line. If the Medellin Cartel or Romanian people-traffickers acquired ownership of LCFC, I'd stop going to matches; if Wonga took over, I'd feel a bit nauseous but would keep attending. Likewise, if one of our players gets done for punching a bloke in a nightclub or drink-driving. However, if we signed Ched Evans, my season ticket would go back. Marlon King would be 50-50 for me.

 

Echoing others:

In practical terms, it's unwise to walk through Moss Side in flash gear waving your wallet, to walk down a dark alley in a miniskirt or to get so legless that you don't know what you're doing. In legal terms, it is still a crime to rob or rape someone, even if they have behaved unwisely.

 

Captain,

- Maybe you should also consider it unwise to sleep with drunken women, if you're concerned about such women then calling rape? But are such fears justified? Could you quote a case where a man has apparently been jailed in such circumstances? I've just done a Google search and only got cases where there were other witnesses, defendant refused to testify etc. The conviction rate is very low for rape - and without other evidence or witnesses, it's very hard for anyone to be convicted in cases where it's "his word against hers".

- You raise McDonald again; have a look at the case papers: https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evansHaving concluded, after examining all the evidence, that the girl was unable to consent, the jury had to consider whether either defendant could have reasonably believed that she had consented (grounds for acquittal); McDonald got talking to the girl in the street, she got in the taxi with him, was talking to him in the taxi and was filmed walking into the hotel with him; in contrast, Evans hadn't met her before apart from stepping over her on the kebab shop floor and turned up in the bedroom uninvited. Surely you can see how the jury might have concluded that McDonald reasonably believed he had consent, but Evans didn't?

 

Manwell,

- "What's too drunk"? It's a grey area, if the woman is conscious. Try looking at the case papers, though: https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evansThe jury saw CCTV footage of the girl extremely drunk (lying on the floor of the kebab shop, pissing in the street), they had the hotel porter's witness statement saying the same and they had expert witnesses in court describing the effects of alcohol on the brain. They concluded that she was "too drunk". Who are we to disagree?

- You say "by all accounts she did verbally consent"; did she? Look at Evans' own site: http://chedevans.com/key-and-undisputed-factsHe told the police that McDonald asked the girl for consent for him. McDonald told the police that Evans had asked for consent. The girl couldn't remember a thing. Hardly convincing....and ultimately irrelevant as, rightly or wrongly, the jury concluded that she was incapable of giving consent

- Conversing is not a sign that you know what you're doing; quite a lot of people sleepwalk and sleeptalk, often not having a clue what they're doing

 

Dr. The Singh/Kitchandro,

If "doing your time" is enough, would it be OK for LCFC to employ Nick Leeson (the Barings fraudster) as financial director, Harry Roberts (released police killer) to run stadium security, Gary Glitter to sing on the pitch at half-time and Oscar Pistorius to introduce him once Birch retires? They've all "done their time" (or will have soon, in Pistorius' case). Committing particular crimes makes you unsuitable for certain jobs, surely! The Tory Minister Profumo certainly thought so. After he was revealed to have slept with Christine Keeler, who was also shagging a Soviet military bloke, and to have lied about it, he spent the rest of his life doing voluntary work - a lot of it cleaning toilets: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Profumo#Later_lifeI'm not expecting Evans to do that, but it would be nice if he accepted that, even if the girl did say "yes", he treated her atrociously (his only regret seems to be having got caught cheating on his girlfriend and causing upset to his family) - and sought a career where he didn't seek public acclaim.

 

Back to less sordid realities for me now!

 

Damn it Alf, you're far too good at all this.

[Dr The Singh]

 

 

Dr. The Singh/Kitchandro,

If "doing your time" is enough, would it be OK for LCFC to employ Nick Leeson (the Barings fraudster) as financial director, Harry Roberts (released police killer) to run stadium security, Gary Glitter to sing on the pitch at half-time and Oscar Pistorius to introduce him once Birch retires? They've all "done their time" (or will have soon, in Pistorius' case). Committing particular crimes makes you unsuitable for certain jobs, surely! The Tory Minister Profumo certainly thought so. After he was revealed to have slept with Christine Keeler, who was also shagging a Soviet military bloke, and to have lied about it, he spent the rest of his life doing voluntary work - a lot of it cleaning toilets: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Profumo#Later_lifeI'm not expecting Evans to do that, but it would be nice if he accepted that, even if the girl did say "yes", he treated her atrociously (his only regret seems to be having got caught cheating on his girlfriend and causing upset to his family) - and sought a career where he didn't seek public acclaim.

 

Back to less sordid realities for me now!

Alf, Ched Evans offense has no relevance to the career he wants to continue in.  If Ched Evans wanted to work in a woman's refuge, then I would say that would be inappropriate, but he is in a career where in his day job, he will not be exposed to women where he could take advantage of.  He is no more risk of being unemployed or as a footballer, other then the fact that in his personal time, women will be more attracted to him, but to rape, he could do either, easy enough in either role!!

[David Guiza]

Alf, Ched Evans offense has no relevance to the career he wants to continue in.  If Ched Evans wanted to work in a woman's refuge, then I would say that would be inappropriate, but he is in a career where in his day job, he will not be exposed to women where he could take advantage of.  He is no more risk of being unemployed or as a footballer, other then the fact that in his personal time, women will be more attracted to him, but to rape, he could do either, easy enough in either role!!

Away from Evans, and on a similar point to that which you're making, Luke McCormick killed two young lads and seriously injured their Dad after crashing into their car at 90mph, whilst twice over the legal drink drive limit. He however served his sentence and is now playing for Plymouth Argyle, pretty sure he may well be captain too.

If you honestly believe that there is nothing wrong with that then I understand, but personally I don't believe proffessional sport is a place for a convicted rapist, or somebody who caused death by dangerous driving etc. I personally would be embarrased to say that I follow a sport where 10,000/20,000 people chant their name from the terraces a mere 2/3 years after they were banged up for a very serious offence. We've had some dodgy characters at our football club, but I'm glad we've never employed somebody like Evans, King or McCormack and would stop following if they were ever to sign. Footballers are far from modern day role models, but there's a huge difference between supporting the likes of John Terry, Ashley Cole etc compared with Ched Evans and Lee Hughes in my eyes.

Nobody is saying that he should be jobless and worthless to society, but there is difference beetween employing him as a proffesional footballer and the 1000's of other jobs which would be available to him.

[Dr The Singh]

Away from Evans, and on a similar point to that which you're making, Luke McCormick killed two young lads and seriously injured their Dad after crashing into their car at 90mph, whilst twice over the legal drink drive limit. He however served his sentence and is now playing for Plymouth Argyle, pretty sure he may well be captain too.

If you honestly believe that there is nothing wrong with that then I understand, but personally I don't believe proffessional sport is a place for a convicted rapist, or somebody who caused death by dangerous driving etc. I personally would be embarrased to say that I follow a sport where 10,000/20,000 people chant their name from the terraces a mere 2/3 years after they were banged up for a very serious offence. We've had some dodgy characters at our football club, but I'm glad we've never employed somebody like Evans, King or McCormack and would stop following if they were ever to sign. Footballers are far from modern day role models, but there's a huge difference between supporting the likes of John Terry, Ashley Cole etc compared with Ched Evans and Lee Hughes in my eyes.

Nobody is saying that he should be jobless and worthless to society, but there is difference beetween employing him as a proffesional footballer and the 1000's of other jobs which would be available to him.

David, i'm just glad we can disagree on things and discuss them in a civilised manner. 

[ADK]

Really? Whenever you've heard of a high-profile (or low-profile) rape case, you've never heard the argument "Oh...look what she was wearing, she was asking for it." Or "I'll bet she wanted it when it happened, but then she changed her mind afterwards." Or just, "Oh, she's just attention-seeking, making it all up."

 

That's victim-blaming, and you hear it all the time after rape cases. I agree it's not unique to rape, but it's far far more prevalent there than any other violent crime.

 

I've honestly never heard that from anyone.

[Captain...]

Captain,

- Maybe you should also consider it unwise to sleep with drunken women, if you're concerned about such women then calling rape? But are such fears justified? Could you quote a case where a man has apparently been jailed in such circumstances? I've just done a Google search and only got cases where there were other witnesses, defendant refused to testify etc. The conviction rate is very low for rape - and without other evidence or witnesses, it's very hard for anyone to be convicted in cases where it's "his word against hers".

- You raise McDonald again; have a look at the case papers: https://www.crimeline.info/case/r-v-ched-evans-chedwyn-evansHaving concluded, after examining all the evidence, that the girl was unable to consent, the jury had to consider whether either defendant could have reasonably believed that she had consented (grounds for acquittal); McDonald got talking to the girl in the street, she got in the taxi with him, was talking to him in the taxi and was filmed walking into the hotel with him; in contrast, Evans hadn't met her before apart from stepping over her on the kebab shop floor and turned up in the bedroom uninvited. Surely you can see how the jury might have concluded that McDonald reasonably believed he had consent, but Evans didn't?

 

I don't sleep with drunken women any more, and not out of concerns of being accused of rape, but because I have a girlfriend. What concerns me is not that I am taking advantage of someone, if I had ever at any point in my life thought I could be taking advantage of someone that they were too drunk, I obviously wouldn't sleep with them. My first issue is that it doesn't seem to be my decision to make, and people who weren't there can decide that you are a rapist, even if when you were there she appeared to be a consenting adult. I still haven't seen any legal definition of "too drunk", or one that can be quantifiably calculated. What concerns me more is that alcohol reduces inhibitions, a woman with reduced inhibitions is more likely to be "up for it", and women, like men, drink to lower their inhibitions to go out on the pull.

 

When I think back to my youth I have been so drunk that I have had sex and not remembered, does that make her a rapist? What if she was legally "too drunk" to consent? Would that make me a rapist? Would it depend on who was more drunk as to who raped who? Did we rape each other? Or was it not rape at all and just consenting sex between 2 adults?

 

EDIT: ---snip---

 

The issue shouldn't be how drunk she was, but how drunk she was perceived to be, because the crime has to be in the intent of Ched and McDonald and not in her state of inebriation. The fact that Ched is still claiming his innocence, makes me think he doesn't in any way think he took advantage of her, remember he had just met her at that point, not really spoken to her, not seen her stumbling or staggering around or pissing in the street. They probably didn't talk much and probably assumed that McDonald wasn't raping a drunk girl (as was later proved to be true).

 

@Alf and anyone calling him a rapist, do you honestly believe he had intent to rape or take advantage of a drunk girl?

[leicsmac]

I've honestly never heard that from anyone.

 

Then I don't think you've been near an Internet comment thread or opinion piece (or forum) in the aftermath of a high-profile rape. That makes up a large amount of the contributions. 

 

There may even be examples of it on here in some older threads.

 

And yes, people writing on the Internet does matter to a victim - especially a high-profile case. People tend to say what they mean when they have anonymity, not the other way around, and no matter what people say about 'sticks and stones' enough people doubting you makes you doubt yourself. Especially in a situation like that.

[Alf Bentley]

Damn it Alf, you're far too good at all this.

 

Far too good at spending time on FoxesTalk instead of getting on with the important things in life, you mean! 

 

Alf, Ched Evans offense has no relevance to the career he wants to continue in.  If Ched Evans wanted to work in a woman's refuge, then I would say that would be inappropriate, but he is in a career where in his day job, he will not be exposed to women where he could take advantage of.  He is no more risk of being unemployed or as a footballer, other then the fact that in his personal time, women will be more attracted to him, but to rape, he could do either, easy enough in either role!!

 

David Guiza has pretty much answered this, Doctor. For me, it's the seeking - and getting - public acclaim that is wrong about him returning to football.  The thought turns my stomach.

 

Once or twice a season, I take my daughter to matches. Imagine Evans is playing (maybe even for LCFC) and thousands of fans start chanting "Ched Evans, he scores when he wants!" (they will). How do I explain that? "Well, darling, he raped a woman and thousands of football fans think that's funny and doesn't matter"? 

 

I'd object to Gary Glitter singing on the pitch at half-time, too, even though his offences had no relevance to singing and he's served his time.

I'd object to someone playing for Leicester if he'd burnt down a gurdwara, mosque or church, even though arson has no relevance to playing football

What do you reckon to those 2 hypothetical cases? If you'd object to them, but not to Evans, I wonder why?

[Strokes]

Anyone allowing their children to see footballers as role models, are terrible parents.

[Captain...]

Far too good at spending time on FoxesTalk instead of getting on with the important things in life, you mean! 

 

 

David Guiza has pretty much answered this, Doctor. For me, it's the seeking - and getting - public acclaim that is wrong about him returning to football.  The thought turns my stomach.

 

Once or twice a season, I take my daughter to matches. Imagine Evans is playing (maybe even for LCFC) and thousands of fans start chanting "Ched Evans, he scores when he wants!" (they will). How do I explain that? "Well, darling, he raped a woman and thousands of football fans think that's funny and doesn't matter"? 

 

I'd object to Gary Glitter singing on the pitch at half-time, too, even though his offences had no relevance to singing and he's served his time.

I'd object to someone playing for Leicester if he'd burnt down a gurdwara, mosque or church, even though arson has no relevance to playing football

What do you reckon to those 2 hypothetical cases? If you'd object to them, but not to Evans, I wonder why?

 

Gary Glitter is a notorious and sexual predator who actively sought out children to abuse, so no, but that is not even remotely comparable to a Ched Evans who made one mistake.

 

As for your arsonist, it all depends why, what was his intention: Was it a hate crime? A terrorist attack? Or a mistake committed in his youth?

 

Has he admitted his crime and asked shown remorse?

Was he drunk when he did it (are you legally able to consent to arson if you are too drunk)?

Can this crime be turned into a terrace chant?

[Finnegan]

Not really comfortable describing Evans' serious crime as a little mistake.

[Finnegan]

If I scam the keys to the apartment upstairs off building management, let myself in when my neighbour is shitfaced and beat the crap out of him, I haven't made "a mistake", I've committed a premeditated crime.

[Captain...]

Not really comfortable describing Evans' serious crime as a little mistake.

 

I didn't, I called it one mistake, as opposed to a serial abuser like Glitter, who deliberately abused multiple children.

 

If I scam the keys to the apartment upstairs off building management, let myself in when my neighbour is shitfaced and beat the crap out of him, I haven't made "a mistake", I've committed a premeditated crime.

 

Depends if he consents to being beaten up. How he accessed the room, which he paid for, is irrelevant, he wasn't convicted of breaking and entering.

 

Do you think he got the keys to that room to go in there and rape that woman? Do you think that was his intent? Do you think at any point he thought that she didn't want to sleep with him?

[James.]

I think it sends a very worrying message that in a game already fulled by lad culture and overt sexism / misogyny we would welcome back someone who so disgustingly took advantage of a woman. This isn't about the technicalities around whether it was rape or not, it's about taking the opportunity to have some moral courage. Ched Evans is perfectly within his rights to want to come back, it's up to us to have the balls to say no.

[Finnegan]

She didn't consent, jury said so. He conned the keys off the front desk, his website says so. He was clearly letting himself in because there was a girl in there.

I personally don't get why some people find some of this so vague. Read his own website. I actually found it quite damning.

[Strokes]

I think it sends a very worrying message that in a game already fulled by lad culture and overt sexism / misogyny we would welcome back someone who so disgustingly took advantage of a woman. This isn't about the technicalities around whether it was rape or not, it's about taking the opportunity to have some moral courage. Ched Evans is perfectly within his rights to want to come back, it's up to us to have the balls to say no.

It very much is about the technicalities, it's this kind of opinion that gives me serious concern