Paris Shooting

[MooseBreath]

And it's this sort of ridiculous post that shows the attitudes that mean we'll probably actually never get anywhere in trying to work with the Muslim Community to try and work together in an attempt to defeat this.

Nail on the head throughout this post, but this part in particular. It's not about requiring Muslims to police their own communities, it's about working together to tackle the problem. The first step towards working together is to acknowledge the extent of the problem. We'll never get beyond the first step while people continue to use the fact that not every muslim is a terrorist to move the goalposts and shut down any chance of further discussion.

Real parallels here with the Rotherham case. People more interested in proving how non-racist they are getting in the way of any progress and ultimately paving the way for continued horror.

[Merging Cultures]

Not only no, but no way can anyone surely deny A reason that our papers wouldn't carry these pictures isn't out of fear and intimidation, it would be absurd not too.

[Babylon]

We'll never get beyond the first step while people continue to use the fact that not every muslim is a terrorist to move the goalposts and shut down any chance of further discussion.

 

Says the man who wanted to brush over abusive anti muslim posts because it was a "tiny minority". Can't have it both ways I'm afraid.

[Rincewind]

Would Private Eye be considered our version?

I was going to say Private Eye.

I know of Muslims that do a lot of good in the community. There is also an all faith group.

I am not religious in any way but try and judge people on their actions rather than their religion.

[Merging Cultures]

We'll never get beyond the first step while people continue to use the fact that not every muslim is a terrorist to move the goalposts and shut down any chance of further discussion.

 

Not sure how it moves the goalposts, unless you are assuming every Muslim is a terrorist?

 

By acknowledging that the vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists we do not alienate the community and we can work with them to identify extremists. If you start from a position that everyone is a terrorist you'll have full jails and p!ss off a lot more people, further increasing insecurity.

[MooseBreath]

Not sure how it moves the goalposts, unless you are assuming every Muslim is a terrorist?

By acknowledging that the vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists we do not alienate the community and we can work with them to identify extremists. If you start from a position that everyone is a terrorist you'll have full jails and p!ss off a lot more people, further increasing insecurity.

It moves the goalposts because we're no longer talking about how to eradicate extremism. We're talking about each other and being critical of each others attitudes. Pretending that extremism barely exists doesn't strengthen bonds with the Muslim Community, it's just a convenient way of moving away from more difficult conversations and ignoring the real problems.

[Rincewind]

Do we know as non-Muslims what goes on in Mosques? They may for all we know condemn extremism during the time. They will be telling the young not to get involved in the extremism the same way a priest preaches all the Jesus loves you stuff but they will have their version..

[Merging Cultures]

It moves the goalposts because we're no longer talking about how to eradicate extremism. We're talking about each other and being critical of each others attitudes. Pretending that extremism barely exists doesn't strengthen bonds with the Muslim Community, it's just a convenient way of moving away from more difficult conversations and ignoring the real problems.

 

I still don't get it. Saying to someone, I understand you and the vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists, but that there are small minority of terrorists in your community that we want to work with you to remove/educate/reform, is not talking about eradicating extremism?

 

Extremism does barely exist, but as MattP said, it depends on your definition. However, terrorists are definitely a minority. Moderates are much more prevalent and they don't want extremists/terrorists being associated with them.

[purpleronnie]

Some just want to criticise Muslims...all muslims, they're either terrorists or not doing enough to stop terrorists. 

[MooseBreath]

I still don't get it. Saying to someone, I understand you and the vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists, but that there are small minority of terrorists in your community that we want to work with you to remove/educate/reform, is not talking about eradicating extremism?

Extremism does barely exist, but as MattP said, it depends on your definition. However, terrorists are definitely a minority. Moderates are much more prevalent and they don't want extremists/terrorists being associated with them.

That conversation would be fine if it happened. The problem is that it isn't happening. It isn't happening because we are preoccupied with criticising each others views on the extent of the extremism. Take Ronnie's post for example (with apologies for singling you out, ronnie), he's very keen to imply that my views make me a racist, much less interested in discussing the actual problem. The same throughout this thread, and in media discussions.

I don't know the real extent of extremism, neither do you, all we know is that's it's enough to drive regular horrific attacks on innocent people, and I'm sure you'd agree that's too much.

[Rincewind]

The majority of muslims do not commit extremist acts. Or you could say the extremists do not support the majority of Muslim views.

How many Muslim terrorists do we all know? I know ofnone. I don't even know any non-muslim criminals so am unable to turn them in.

[Merging Cultures]

That conversation would be fine if it happened. The problem is that it isn't happening. It isn't happening because we are preoccupied with criticising each others views on the extent of the extremism. Take Ronnie's post for example (with apologies for singling you out, ronnie), he's very keen to imply that my views make me a racist, much less interested in discussing the actual problem. The same throughout this thread, and in media discussions.

I don't know the real extent of extremism, neither do you, all we know is that's it's enough to drive regular horrific attacks on innocent people, and I'm sure you'd agree that's too much.

Is regular like daily and several? They are not regular. But any attack is abhorrent.

And regarding those discussions, of course they are happening. The police, community leaders, religious leaders have these discussions. Just because we are not party to them doesn't mean they are happening. Also, I'd suggest those people on the media being critical, both sides, are not involved in the discussions because they are being critical rather than working with the 'other side'.

[MooseBreath]

You like to think those discussions are happening. They didn't happen at Rotherham though, did they? And we all know why. If they are happening they haven't achieved anything in a decade. Maybe it's timefor a bit more effort on all sides. And that starts with acknowledging the problem.

[Grewks]

Of course 'Terrorism', well what people mean when using the word, exists in the modern world.

 

 

 

But the use of the world itself is pure fabrication from the media, and is used far too selectively.

 

 

 

Every week we continue to hear some news reports on the war in Iraq. Yet how often do we hear the words terrorist or terrorism used? Answer - Only when referring to those living in the middle east.

 

 

If invading another country, killing 12 innocent people due to differing religious beliefs is considered an act of terrorism.....How is this different to our actions in Iraq?

[hejammy]

Give up mate, I've asked this numerous times and never get a response or if I do it's a piss poor lie about how no one actually knew.

Muslims seem to be able to argue black is white with a completely straight face.

Seriously? Abu hamza everyone knew about, why did you not say anything? Lots of Muslims have protested against him, I don't see why you can't get that most normal Muslims don't have a clue about who is a terrorist before they're in the papers or news.

[hejammy]

Who are these Muslims completely speaking out for free speech Ron? Show me them.

Show me Muslims defending Charlie Ebdo and a right to free speech.

We have schools in our own city now Ron where the students see these attacks as justified.

The ISIS point is ridiculous, those Muslim nations have been at war for years with different factions.

Err did I not mention in a previous post that the magazine can write, say or draw what they want?

That lady who taught in a school said the students condone the attacks? Am I mistaken?

It seems you genuinely do want every single Muslim to speak out against terrorism, the fact remains that most who do not believe that speaking out will achieve nothing. It's the government who need to straighten up their policies and get rid of the guilty parties

[Rincewind]

If more Muslims are aware of who are potential extremists or support them why has there not been more outrage from the Muslim community about the TV sitcom Citizen Khan. A Pakistani Muslim that makes fun of the religion?

I cannot recall cries for it to be removed for the way Muslims are portrayed or it being called an insult to them. I suspect a lot find it amusing.

[LCFCFOX6190]

So they've been killed.

[Merging Cultures]

You like to think those discussions are happening. They didn't happen at Rotherham though, did they? And we all know why. If they are happening they haven't achieved anything in a decade. Maybe it's timefor a bit more effort on all sides. And that starts with acknowledging the problem.

Agreed. They were ineffective.

The council knew a group of pedos were abusing kids and they ignored it.

It's a gross failure by the local council.

I'd imagine there was much confusion as to why the authorities were doing nothing.

There will always be such cases. What we don't hear about are the people who don't become extremists because of good community relations.

[Rincewind]

There will always be such cases. What we don't hear about are the people who don't become extremists because of good community relations.

 

Like this one.

http://www.lcof.org.uk/

[Webbo]

 

I am not religious in any way but try and judge people on their actions rather than their religion.

You said all christians are right wing hypocrites.

[Grewks]

How are people failing to see the key difference between Muslims in the west and Extremist Muslims?

 

 

The best comparison would be with the religion of Christianity within the West. The vast majority of Whites in Britain are Christian's, but I can guarantee than only around 1% actually can be considered what I would call 'Extremist Christians' who follow the bible to the letter, attend Church on a regular basis etc.

 

 

 

As a twenty year old, I have been brought up in a multi-cultural society amongst many muslims, who I consider to be very relaxed with their religious practices. The fact that people believe muslims should be aware who the 'Extremist ones' are, is quite frankly disturbing. I have yet to meet a muslim in this country whose morals are little different to my own.

[Stadt]

We all know not all Muslims are terrorists so seeing the same point again and again is just

Nobody is even saying all Muslims are terrorists.

[Webbo]

Of course 'Terrorism', well what people mean when using the word, exists in the modern world.

 

 

 

But the use of the world itself is pure fabrication from the media, and is used far too selectively.

 

 

 

Every week we continue to hear some news reports on the war in Iraq. Yet how often do we hear the words terrorist or terrorism used? Answer - Only when referring to those living in the middle east.

 

 

If invading another country, killing 12 innocent people due to differing religious beliefs is considered an act of terrorism.....How is this different to our actions in Iraq?

You do realise that the shooting were an attack on the media don't you?

 

They shot those cartoonists/journalists because they didn't like what they wrote and it was intended to frighten other journalists not to do the same. If that's not terrorism what is?

[Merging Cultures]

We all know not all Muslims are terrorists so seeing the same point again and again is just

Nobody is even saying all Muslims are terrorists.

I don't know!! Read some of the posts on here!