Bilo Posted 25 January 2015 Share Posted 25 January 2015 Winning the Capital One Cup destroyed Swansea to be fair. The carnage wrought upon Stoke as a result of their FA Cup final appearance will take years to repair. Anybody can come up with examples to suit their point, and using Wigan, Birmingham and Pompey as examples of why we should try to get out of the cup asap is disingenuous at the very best. If we were to win the cup and stay up, because surprisingly the two aren't mutually exclusive, we could conceivably be playing at the San Siro and the Mestalla among others next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shailen Posted 25 January 2015 Share Posted 25 January 2015 Newcastle have been here for 5 years now, they're yet to get beyond round 4. Being established doesn't mean you then go on to win cups. I want to see us win a cup - being established doesn't stop you going down: Bolton, Blackburn, Newcastle, Fulham, Charlton, Middlebrough can all tell you that, as can we when we went down in 2002. No you're right, being established doesnt guarantee you success. But it puts you in a better position to compete against all fronts. If there is little danger of relegation, then you can focus on the cup competition with more emphasis. It doesn't mean you won't get relegated, but you are less likely too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shailen Posted 25 January 2015 Share Posted 25 January 2015 Finally getting our name engraved on the most famous trophy in football is hardly "thinking about short term success". I never said that. I said that if you want to win it over PL survival, then that is thinking about short term success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogadug Posted 25 January 2015 Share Posted 25 January 2015 Even if we do manage to become 'more established' - I can't see the draw opening up as much as this for quite a few years to come, meaning this could be our best chance for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffolk exile Posted 25 January 2015 Share Posted 25 January 2015 Suppose one way to look at it could be FA cup and a season winning most games ending with us coming back stronger and better equipped for survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuna Posted 25 January 2015 Share Posted 25 January 2015 Lets not forget a potential cup win would end up with us suffering the punishment of the misery of the Europa League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shailen Posted 25 January 2015 Share Posted 25 January 2015 Winning the Capital One Cup destroyed Swansea to be fair. The carnage wrought upon Stoke as a result of their FA Cup final appearance will take years to repair. Anybody can come up with examples to suit their point, and using Wigan, Birmingham and Pompey as examples of why we should try to get out of the cup asap is disingenuous at the very best. If we were to win the cup and stay up, because surprisingly the two aren't mutually exclusive, we could conceivably be playing at the San Siro and the Mestalla among others next season. I don't think anyone is saying the two aren't mutually exclusive. Yes we can do both, but this topic is about a hypothetical scenario about whether you value survival in the PL over a FA cup thropy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayfox Posted 25 January 2015 Share Posted 25 January 2015 I never said that. I said that if you want to win it over PL survival, then that is thinking about short term success. why. long term success is now linked to king power, fa cup final broadcast to how many countries, europa league football is hardly gonna damage the brand. maybe we can do both. but the question was what as fans would we prefer for me lifting the cup would mean a hell of a lot and going to my grave mean more than 1 season of top flight football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB11 Posted 25 January 2015 Share Posted 25 January 2015 It sounds like people are giving up on staying up and clinging to this idea instead. I want to stay in the Premier League. But if we get relegated I still don't want Nigel Pearson sacked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 25 January 2015 Share Posted 25 January 2015 Old Etonians won it in 1879 and their boys are doing alright for themselves at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shailen Posted 25 January 2015 Share Posted 25 January 2015 why. long term success is now linked to king power, fa cup final broadcast to how many countries, europa league football is hardly gonna damage the brand. maybe we can do both. but the question was what as fans would we prefer for me lifting the cup would mean a hell of a lot and going to my grave mean more than 1 season of top flight football. But thats exactly my point. If we were guaranteed to come back up, I would agree with lifting the fa cup. But it could well be ten more years without top flight football. I appreciate the fact that we have never won the fa cup and it would mean a hell of alot to us, but not compromising PL football for it. The likelihood is that our squad will be torn apart and we will have to start a rebuilding process. Do not get me wrong, we can do both, I'm not disputing that. But given a choice, I would choose survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyJones Posted 25 January 2015 Share Posted 25 January 2015 Nobody's giving up on staying up, but I would rather win the cup. Whichever division we are in I will be down supporting the team. Having watched City for over 50 seasons, probably two thirds of these losing seasons (ie lose more games than you win), I am not one of these who have to have continuous success. Like most of you, the disappointments have been a regular feature, but this makes moments like the 92nd minute at Tottenham all the better. In a way I feel sorry for the Evertons of the world who have never experienced the pain of relegation and the exhilaration of promotion. Must be boring supporting them, staying in the overrated premier league, but always being mediocre performers. Look at the bigger picture, winning the cup will be massive for the City, no longer saddled with that 4 time loser tag. If you are the type of supporter that will only turn up if we are in the premier league, you might as well clear off now, because sooner or later we will go down. It might be this year, it might be in 20 years, but it is the nature of our club. Apart from the big four / five clubs, all sides are at risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayfox Posted 25 January 2015 Share Posted 25 January 2015 But thats exactly my point. If we were guaranteed to come back up, I would agree with lifting the fa cup. But it could well be ten more years without top flight football. I appreciate the fact that we have never won the fa cup and it would mean a hell of alot to us, but not compromising PL football for it. The likelihood is that our squad will be torn apart and we will have to start a rebuilding process. Do not get me wrong, we can do both, I'm not disputing that. But given a choice, I would choose survival. so you would rather have what may only be another 12 months of being ripped off to the tune of 50 quid a ticket over making history. fine if that's how you feel. as for our squad getting torn apart. yes have they have performed so well so far and np gave most of them 4 year deals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placidcasual Posted 25 January 2015 Share Posted 25 January 2015 But thats exactly my point. If we were guaranteed to come back up, I would agree with lifting the fa cup. But it could well be ten more years without top flight football. I appreciate the fact that we have never won the fa cup and it would mean a hell of alot to us, but not compromising PL football for it. The likelihood is that our squad will be torn apart and we will have to start a rebuilding process. Do not get me wrong, we can do both, I'm not disputing that. But given a choice, I would choose survival. The Premier League is not the be all and end all of football. I have seen us be relegated five time and promoted five times. It is something that happens and will continue to happen. We have never won the FA Cup. Since 1884. I have never seen us play in a FA Cup Semi Final let alone a final - So yeah. I would take a cup final appearance over staying up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shailen Posted 25 January 2015 Share Posted 25 January 2015 so you would rather have what may only be another 12 months of being ripped off to the tune of 50 quid a ticket over making history. fine if that's how you feel. as for our squad getting torn apart. yes have they have performed so well so far and np gave most of them 4 year deals. I think my point is if we can establish ourselves in the premier league we can win more than one FA cup, lets say over a 5/7 year period. In those 5 years we were in the PL under MON and PT, we got to three cup finals and won two. And also an infamous FA cup quarter final. I understand that nothing is guaranteed in football, but I think what is almost certain is that a PL will win the cup. History more or less backs that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucalion Posted 25 January 2015 Author Share Posted 25 January 2015 Last time we were established in the PL we did win something. That, rather than decent league finishes, is why it is so special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayfox Posted 25 January 2015 Share Posted 25 January 2015 I think my point is if we can establish ourselves in the premier league we can win more than one FA cup, lets say over a 5/7 year period. In those 5 years we were in the PL under MON and PT, we got to three cup finals and won two. And also an infamous FA cup quarter final. I understand that nothing is guaranteed in football, but I think what is almost certain is that a PL will win the cup. History more or less backs that up. so club with no fa cups in 130 years. is set to go on and win 5 or 6 in the next how long? let me know so I can keep up my points and stay alive for this golden era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shailen Posted 25 January 2015 Share Posted 25 January 2015 so club with no fa cups in 130 years. is set to go on and win 5 or 6 in the next how long? let me know so I can keep up my points and stay alive for this golden era Firstly, its a fact that an established premier league club has a better chance of winning the FA cup, because you're amongst the 20 best teams in the country. I never said we would win it, but we are more likely too. Secondly, what does history have to do with anything. It doesn't exactly reduce our chances to win the competition. I could say Man City never won the PL until 2011, but in the last three seasons they have won it twice. What does that even mean? If someone was to ask me what I want, my answer would be what is best for the club. That for me would be another 12 months at least in the PL. Better Finances, better quality of football and greater exposure is what you get from the PL. If Southampton break into the top four, that would be an amazing achievement. Look at the plaudits they are getting this season. I know this is difficult, but imagine if we could replicate this achievement. The Fa cup is special, but winning it to get into Europe is not sustainable for me. I'd rather us try to become a Europa league team that manages to finish 6/7th. Then we have a better chance of actually doing well in the competition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placidcasual Posted 25 January 2015 Share Posted 25 January 2015 I think my point is if we can establish ourselves in the premier league we can win more than one FA cup, lets say over a 5/7 year period. In those 5 years we were in the PL under MON and PT, we got to three cup finals and won two. And also an infamous FA cup quarter final. I understand that nothing is guaranteed in football, but I think what is almost certain is that a PL will win the cup. History more or less backs that up. In the last 20 seasons we have spent in the top flight - 0 FA Cup Finals have been got to. All of a sudden we are going to win more than one in a 5/7 year period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucalion Posted 25 January 2015 Author Share Posted 25 January 2015 Firstly, its a fact that an established premier league club has a better chance of winning the FA cup, because you're amongst the 20 best teams in the country. I never said we would win it, but we are more likely too. Secondly, what does history have to do with anything. It doesn't exactly reduce our chances to win the competition. I could say Man City never won the PL until 2011, but in the last three seasons they have won it twice. What does that even mean? If someone was to ask me what I want, my answer would be what is best for the club. That for me would be another 12 months at least in the PL. Better Finances, better quality of football and greater exposure is what you get from the PL. If Southampton break into the top four, that would be an amazing achievement. Look at the plaudits they are getting this season. I know this is difficult, imagine if we could replicate this achievement. I would rather see Leicester City enscribed on the the FA Cup but you make a good argument here. But...let's not forget this is a 'what if' thread, we are not deciding what happens !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shailen Posted 25 January 2015 Share Posted 25 January 2015 I would rather see Leicester City enscribed on the the FA Cup but you make a good argument here. But...let's not forget this is a 'what if' thread, we are not deciding what happens !! haha I do understand your viewpoint, especially for the older generation who have been following the team for many years. I understand this is purely hypothetical. This thread has killed a boring Sunday though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 25 January 2015 Share Posted 25 January 2015 I wonder if the Portsmouth or Wigan fans are still saying "Cup" Certainly the Pompey fans are! I'm forever reminded by all the Fratton Park fanatics at my golf club...they're so proud of their club's achievements. Despite their comparatively lowly position at the moment, the fans are still 100% behind their team and keeping the faith. So it's the FA cup for me too! No one can ever take that glory away from a cup winning team. I keep dreaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shailen Posted 25 January 2015 Share Posted 25 January 2015 I'd be interested to see how many people would choose premier league survival had we won the FA cup before in our history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deucalion Posted 25 January 2015 Author Share Posted 25 January 2015 I'd be interested to see how many people would choose premier league survival had we won the FA cup before in our history. If the question was League Cup or survival, I think I would want the cup win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan LCFC Posted 26 January 2015 Share Posted 26 January 2015 I can see what Shailen is getting at, but like I said earlier, you've got a chance to jump the queue if you go all out for it this year. It isn't unwinnable. Comparisons to Portsmouth, Wigan & Birmingham are just insane. Anyone who has made one... just sit there for a minute and think about what you're doing - drawing up a mythical correlation in order to promote your own club turning down the shot of winning silverware. It's a thought process I just cannot get my head around and never will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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