The EU referendum - IN / OUT or Shake it all about.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Hopefully not, the blokes a snake and cut from the same cloth as Cameron.

To be fair to Cameron - I don't think he's a snake at all, he just has a snake in his ear / as a right hand man.

[The Doctor]

Ha ha Osborne getting mullered by Andrew Neil, showed his sidekick saying in Nov we would. be ok if we left the EU, six months later it would be the end of the world.

If ever there was an endorsement to leave this is it well done George good man

 

Was the planned bonfire of workers rights, the sudden deficit of NHS staff and teachers coming in, the loss of thousands of jobs and foreign businesses pull out since they were only here for access to the single market, enacting TTIP without the planned protections for things like the NHS that the French are after and the tanking of the economy not enough of an endorsement?

[Webbo]

Was the planned bonfire of workers rights, the sudden deficit of NHS staff and teachers coming in, the loss of thousands of jobs and foreign businesses pull out since they were only here for access to the single market, enacting TTIP without the planned protections for things like the NHS that the French are after and the tanking of the economy not enough of an endorsement?

Source?

[The Doctor]

Source?

 

It's quite obvious from the suggestions of freeing up the economy from EU regulations given our economy is quite loosely regulated compared to the rest of the EU. What's left is mostly workers rights; so when people like Priti Patel talk about cutting regulation in half, it's clear what is going. 

 

But if you'd prefer:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/eu-brexit-uk-referendum-leave-employment-rights-disaster-explained-a6921126.html

and the summary of a TUC report: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/01/brexit-british-workers-worse-off-eu-referendum-tuc-european-union

[Webbo]

It's quite obvious from the suggestions of freeing up the economy from EU regulations given our economy is quite loosely regulated compared to the rest of the EU. What's left is mostly workers rights; so when people like Priti Patel talk about cutting regulation in half, it's clear what is going. 

 

But if you'd prefer:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/eu-brexit-uk-referendum-leave-employment-rights-disaster-explained-a6921126.html

and the summary of a TUC report: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/01/brexit-british-workers-worse-off-eu-referendum-tuc-european-union

So speculation then?

[The Doctor]

So speculation then?

 

Less speculation, more the obvious conclusion to all of Brexits points so far. Unless of course in addition to constantly lying about statistics (like the £350m per week) they're lying about their plans for life after the EU? In which case there's very little reason to back them when they've not got a bloody clue what to do.

[Webbo]

Less speculation, more the obvious conclusion to all of Brexits points so far. Unless of course in addition to constantly lying about statistics (like the £350m per week) they're lying about their plans for life after the EU? In which case there's very little reason to back them when they've not got a bloody clue what to do.

So when the TUC say workers will be £38 p.w. worse off that's a cast iron fact? Paid holidays are going to scrapped even though we had them for decades before we joined the EU. It's blatant propaganda.

[The Doctor]

So when the TUC say workers will be £38 p.w. worse off that's a cast iron fact? Paid holidays are going to scrapped even though we had them for decades before we joined the EU. It's blatant propaganda.

 

When the leaders of the Brexit campaign say they're going to cut EU regulation of the economy in half, when the UK economy is very lightly regulated, with what little there is being predominately workers rights, it's a cast iron fact that workers rights are going to go. There's no way to halve the amount of regulation and retain the workers rights when most of the regulation is workers rights.

[Webbo]

When the leaders of the Brexit campaign say they're going to cut EU regulation of the economy in half, when the UK economy is very lightly regulated, with what little there is being predominately workers rights, it's a cast iron fact that workers rights are going to go. There's no way to halve the amount of regulation and retain the workers rights when most of the regulation is workers rights.

Well you'll be able to vote against all that at the election. If the tories do all those dreadful things Labour should win a landslide.

[The Doctor]

Well you'll be able to vote against all that at the election. If the tories do all those dreadful things Labour should win a landslide.

 

So your plan is to destroy the country because we'll be able to fix it in a bit? How very Maoist of you.

[Webbo]

So your plan is to destroy the country because we'll be able to fix it in a bit? How very Maoist of you.

Destroy the country?Really?

 

 

Edit or were you talking about the Labour landslide?

[The Doctor]

Destroy the country?Really?

Edit or were you talking about the Labour landslide?

Big companies like hitachi talking about pulling out and scrapping a load of jobs to move back inside the single market, along with the loss of a lot of funding for the agricultural sector which brexit have made no assurances to replace (instead pretending it doesn't exist). Brexit is going to cripple the country temporarily if nothing else.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

Ha ha Osborne getting mullered by Andrew Neil, showed his sidekick saying in Nov we would. be ok if we left the EU, six months later it would be the end of the world.

If ever there was an endorsement to leave this is it well done George good man

Surprise, surprise! The best case for getting out of the EU, is being made by bags of crap like him. Wonker!

 

Brexit! The Only Way Forward. 

[Great Boos Up]

Immigration is a major issue here, but not illegal immigrants and asylum seekers and refugees as this will always happen in the world we live in.

In 2000 the UK population was 64 million and in 2016 it is 65 million.

I'm being lied to! I travel the country and every small town, school and hospital waiting time has doubled in size.

it's not the steady growth of the commonwealth (which will stay intact if we leave) but the millions upon millions of European workers.

Half the people I sell to are eastern European, and half of their workforce is eastern European, half of my factory is now eastern European. 

In fact I've noticed Leicestershire has the smallest amount of Europeans in the all the counties that I visit .

Yes they work hard and pay taxes and buy bread, milk and fridges and cars which bumps the economy. But 1 million in 16 years? Someone's missed a nought of those figures and I'm worried that the skin of our bubble will get too thin and burst. 

I now have to think about the future of my son getting a university place, a job, a house and a good life. Selfish, perhaps; paranoid, a little.

But I'm willing to take a mini recession on the chin to stop what was originally a select group of similar European countries turning into something else completely.

[Thracian]

Immigration is a major issue here, but not illegal immigrants and asylum seekers and refugees as this will always happen in the world we live in.

In 2000 the UK population was 64 million and in 2016 it is 65 million.

I'm being lied to! I travel the country and every small town, school and hospital waiting time has doubled in size.

it's not the steady growth of the commonwealth (which will stay intact if we leave) but the millions upon millions of European workers.

Half the people I sell to are eastern European, and half of their workforce is eastern European, half of my factory is now eastern European. 

In fact I've noticed Leicestershire has the smallest amount of Europeans in the all the counties that I visit .

Yes they work hard and pay taxes and buy bread, milk and fridges and cars which bumps the economy. But 1 million in 16 years? Someone's missed a nought of those figures and I'm worried that the skin of our bubble will get too thin and burst. 

I now have to think about the future of my son getting a university place, a job, a house and a good life. Selfish, perhaps; paranoid, a little.

But I'm willing to take a mini recession on the chin to stop what was originally a select group of similar European countries turning into something else completely.

 

 

Yes, we are being blatantly lied to - and cynically manipulated. Have been for years. 

[Guest MattP]

Just got in and about to watch Gideon get destroyed according to you guys, I cannot wait, this guy has had it coming to him for years. Hope it finishes off every chance he has of becoming PM.

Doctor what on earth are you talking about? The last week has proven beyond doubt workers right/holiday pay etc have more protection under our government than the EU.

Stop scaremongering, if you think the Tories will seriously trample on those you seem to have forgotten they actually have elections to win.

[Guest MattP]

Well that was wonderful, every argument the treasury has made taken apart and the lies and deceit of these two conmen shown to the World, I just hope a lot of people watched it.

What a fall from grace for Gideon, I bet he never thought Tories would despise him more than the left.

Hats off again to Andrew Neil, 2-0 and as much I'd love it to end

[Thracian]

Much has been made of the economy and our export prospects in a post-Brexit era.

 

Well, there are few with more expertise in big business, a more skilled workforce to look out for,  and more practical success to back his opinion than this fellow. And his views are unambiguous.  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36485985 

 

We can be all we want as a multi-cultural, top economy, world embracing, independent nation without being saddled with the misguided idealism, the wastefulness, the ill-conceived laws and the dictates of people whose strongest arguments are to threaten us - like other despicable shits in the past.

 

Cameron flying the same flag as Juncker? It makes me want to spit. I wouldn't want to concede kick-off to the bloke on the toss of a coin, never mind anything else. 

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Broken link?

[Guest]

Is there really discussion in this thread or is it the same entrenched few repeating the same view without listening to the other side for 50 pages?

[bovril]

Is there really discussion in this thread or is it the same entrenched few repeating the same view without listening to the other side for 50 pages?

 

I think much of the information presented in this thread more informative than most of the bluster and bullshit we've seen on TV so far.

 

But yeah, there are a couple of posters who seem to be having their own private little meltdowns about things completely unconnected to the referendum.

[BlueSi13]

Well that was wonderful, every argument the treasury has made taken apart and the lies and deceit of these two conmen shown to the World, I just hope a lot of people watched it.

What a fall from grace for Gideon, I bet he never thought Tories would despise him more than the left.

Hats off again to Andrew Neil, 2-0 and as much I'd love it to end

 

 

Absolute horror show from Osborne.

 

What the **** is he talking about when he constantly says that we'll 'lose control of our economy' if we left the EU 

[johnny the fox]

Is there really discussion in this thread or is it the same entrenched few repeating the same view without listening to the other side for 50 pages?

that is priceless coming from you...

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Absolute horror show from Osborne.

 

What the **** is he talking about when he constantly says that we'll 'lose control of our economy' if we left the EU 

I would suggest the point he's tried to make (badly), is that even if we're completely outside of the EU and have no direct need to apply its mutually agreed laws / directives, because it's a huge block of competitors on our doorstep we would either have to meet the standards the EU sets going along or what is more likely, look to undercut them in some way to ensure we maintain a competitive advantage - and so our choices aren't as free as they may seem as we will still be influenced by the environment outside of us.

The other stark observation I've made is that if the levels of immigration is one of the big reasons our economy isn't tanking (and there's reasons to believe that is partly the case), we could have a situation where the initial shock from leaving prolongs itself because we then persue a course of 'minimal' immigration as demanded - and that this mixed with our current large debt could put us in a constrained circling reactive, not pro-active scenario.

There is certainly a bit of a paradox here - it'd be a lot easier to come out if our own finances were in good shape, yet if that was the case I don't think the demand for exit would be anywhere near the levels that is now.

Now don't get me wrong - I don't go for the Black Sky Thinking that is being peddled on the one side, because if nothing else I've found business gets bored of being in a recession itself so normally adapts and finds a way out of it, but I also don't believe for one second the blue sky thinking presented by the other - I'd position myself somewhere on the grey clouds overhead, it's likely to piss on people for quite a while, but some will buy umbrellas, whilst others get wet.

How's that for an anology?

[Guest Mee-9]

Personally I'd like us to leave, it'd be interesting to see what would happen. 

 

Maybe we could implement like a buy-back clause if we **** it up.