DJ Barry Hammond Posted 9 June 2016 Posted 9 June 2016 After the end of the second world war,Germany was rubble and divided..in just over 70 years they have come to be the most dominant nation in Europe and the richest. They reunited with a bankrupt east Germany and just carried onward and upward... this is a damning indictment of our countries leadership in those years ...And now OUR wonderful leaders and betters want us to do as they say because THEY know better...I for one have had enough these second raters.....the whole political class has failed our great nation, their track record proves it...Its time for the people to take back control, yes we could fail ...yes we could succeed ..but at least we will OWN the outcome We can be the masters of our own destiny ! I'm up for the challenge...I'm for OUT! Couple of dilema's for you from this post - Germany has prospered whilst being an ever more central part of the EU. It even joined the Euro. So does that identify that the EU can be good for a nation? You criticise our wonderful leaders - but this not a vote about them and leaving potentially provides those very same leaders more over riding power and gives big business interest lobbying groups easier access to direct political action. This is not the French Revolution, you do realise that. What'll happen if we vote out is that some other part of the establishment will take over and then continue to make self interest decisons. At least the EU Parliment has a broad range of MEP's across a political spectrum that means any legislation put forward needs to have broad appeal.
Guest Posted 9 June 2016 Posted 9 June 2016 Gove won't win an election. His views on the EU aren't hardly being challenged but if he's as woolly and inconsistent in the run up to a general election he'd get ripped apart. Boris too, but he has the advantage of acres more popular appeal. We're heading for Boris v Corbyn v Farage, which is not exactly a ringing endorsement of Britain being able to succeed and prosper when left to its own devices. I'd expect the Lib Dems to try and capture the middle ground, but they'll probably still be too toxic for the majority to consider. If the leave team wins and Cam gets replaced by Gove, he'll be ousted because the country will go into cataclysmic decline. That's probably the only way that Corbyn could ever be PM. Corbyn has planned it all.
Guest Posted 9 June 2016 Posted 9 June 2016 I wouldn't bet on it. The tories only got a narrow majority last time. If we stay in the EU they'll lose a lot of those who would vote for Gove to UKIP, and they'd lose a lot of those who prefer a more centrist conservative party to protest votes/spoiled ballots/low turnout. Guaranteed UKIP led coalition at best. What's the point of UKIP if the people decide to stay in? Surely they'd be dissolved and form a "new conservative" party under Gove.
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 9 June 2016 Posted 9 June 2016 What's the point of UKIP if the people decide to stay in? Surely they'd be dissolved and form a "new conservative" party under Gove. Do you really think that the majority of people wanting out would shut up in the event of a 'Remain vote?' Mean we've had Raab come out and mention the prospect of a second referendum again today.
Guest Posted 9 June 2016 Posted 9 June 2016 Unfortunately I've never been to the States but it's always seemed to me that we have much more freedom of speech here. After 9/11 particularly I remember many Americans falling out of favour for having slightly different views from the mainstream. Only the rich have freedom of speech - in whatever country.
Webbo Posted 9 June 2016 Posted 9 June 2016 What's the point of UKIP if the people decide to stay in? Surely they'd be dissolved and form a "new conservative" party under Gove. The same as the SNP when Scotland decided to stay in?
Guest Posted 9 June 2016 Posted 9 June 2016 After the end of the second world war,Germany was rubble and divided..in just over 70 years they have come to be the most dominant nation in Europe and the richest. They reunited with a bankrupt east Germany and just carried onward and upward... this is a damning indictment of our countries leadership in those years ...And now OUR wonderful leaders and betters want us to do as they say because THEY know better...I for one have had enough these second raters.....the whole political class has failed our great nation, their track record proves it...Its time for the people to take back control, yes we could fail ...yes we could succeed ..but at least we will OWN the outcome We can be the masters of our own destiny ! I'm up for the challenge...I'm for OUT! You do really understand why Germany profited and England didn't after the war, don't you?
Guest Posted 9 June 2016 Posted 9 June 2016 Do you really think that the majority of people wanting out would shut up in the event of a 'Remain vote?' Mean we've had Raab come out and mention the prospect of a second referendum again today. There won't be the offer of a second referendum. It would make the first one a mockery. This is a generational decision. IN or OUT for another generation.
Guest Posted 9 June 2016 Posted 9 June 2016 The same as the SNP when Scotland decided to stay in? Well they're effective. They have the majority of seats in Scotland and can't get what they want.
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 9 June 2016 Posted 9 June 2016 There won't be the offer of a second referendum. It would make the first one a mockery. This is a generational decision. IN or OUT for another generation. I'm not having that - there are plenty of potential scenario's in the event of either result that could lead to the question needing to be asked again. It's not inconceivable there's another one within 2/3 years.
Guest Posted 9 June 2016 Posted 9 June 2016 I'm not having that - there are plenty of potential scenario's in the event of either result that could lead to the question needing to be asked again. It's not inconceivable there's another one within 2/3 years. We'll see. But I don't think so. If you pull out the EU won't let you back in.
johnny the fox Posted 9 June 2016 Posted 9 June 2016 Couple of dilema's for you from this post - Germany has prospered whilst being an ever more central part of the EU. It even joined the Euro. So does that identify that the EU can be good for a nation? You criticise our wonderful leaders - but this not a vote about them and leaving potentially provides those very same leaders more over riding power and gives big business interest lobbying groups easier access to direct political action. This is not the French Revolution, you do realise that. What'll happen if we vote out is that some other part of the establishment will take over and then continue to make self interest decisons. At least the EU Parliment has a broad range of MEP's across a political spectrum that means any legislation put forward needs to have broad appeal. That IS the point...Germany have always been at the center of the EU ...along with France .the whole project was set up by them for them to benefit them! first and foremost... we were black balled by De Gaulle when we first and secondly applied in 1963/ 1967..he said WE were "not ready" because we wanted it changed even then....There were obvious historic reasons why they wanted it the way it is now... but sadly in this life one size does not fit all..... ask the soviet union! I'm sure I don't need to point out there would not even be a "EUROPE" if it wasn't for this country refusing to fold between 1939/1941..unlike others... It cannot be a "HEALTHY EU" where Germany are in the black more than the rest of the other members of the EU are in the red.... If you have lost faith in our countries system so much that you are prepared let unknown MEP'S from across Europe who 99% of us know fook all about make decisions about your life then get active and go and change "OUR" nations system..don't leave it to the rest of the continent ..we are better than this..
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 9 June 2016 Posted 9 June 2016 We'll see. But I don't think so. If you pull out the EU won't let you back in. That may be the case, but the EU may allow us to negotiate full exit terms and then put a final vote to the people on the exact position if there was preference for us to stay.
Guest Posted 9 June 2016 Posted 9 June 2016 That may be the case, but the EU may allow us to negotiate full exit terms and then put a final vote to the people on the exact position if there was preference for us to stay. We'll know soon enough. either way.
johnny the fox Posted 9 June 2016 Posted 9 June 2016 You do really understand why Germany profited and England didn't after the war, don't you? You are right I do really understand why...you are so wise. PS. its the UK not just little England..
Guest Posted 9 June 2016 Posted 9 June 2016 You are right I do really understand why...you are so wise. PS. its the UK not just little England.. Don't see why you've tied it to the EU referendum then. More derailing?
johnny the fox Posted 9 June 2016 Posted 9 June 2016 http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/november/27/newsid_4187000/4187714.stm looks like NOTHING HAS CHANGED since 1967...
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 9 June 2016 Posted 9 June 2016 If you have lost faith in our countries system so much that you are prepared let unknown MEP'S from across Europe who 99% of us know fook all about make decisions about your life then get active and go and change "OUR" nations system..don't leave it to the rest of the continent ..we are better than this.. So I've taken out the first part because it was essentially noise... but this part was actually what I asked you first. It was you that highlighted that you don't like the structure of the political system and this vote doesn't change that. Mean unless you can name me around 100 MP's / Lord's off the bat, we could say the same about our own Parlimentary system - who are they all! Who are they indeed! But where there are decisions to be made where there is an interest to agree action across a number of nations, rather than just individual matters, I think the method the EU does, from the most part, work pretty well and can achieve good outcomes.
johnny the fox Posted 9 June 2016 Posted 9 June 2016 So I've taken out the first part because it was essentially noise... but this part was actually what I asked you first. It was you that highlighted that you don't like the structure of the political system and this vote doesn't change that. Mean unless you can name me around 100 MP's / Lord's off the bat, we could say the same about our own Parlimentary system - who are they all! Who are they indeed! But where there are decisions to be made where there is an interest to agree action across a number of nations, rather than just individual matters, I think the method the EU does, from the most part, work pretty well and can achieve good outcomes. I feel sorry for you....... sounds like you have given up on our great country.. lost confidence in it and the ability to change it... think you would be better off moving to main land Europe...say to Brussels they obviously do things so much better there.. and calling the historic reason and context why the EU is the way it is as just "noise" proves that... PS.. your last sentence could of been said by Brezhnev about the USSR in the 1960's ..word for word..
Buce Posted 9 June 2016 Posted 9 June 2016 I think it's better to weigh up the pros and cons and vote for what you think is better for Britain and Europe, not try to tactically vote to bring about hypothetical scenarios. Imho.... Sometimes, when something is broken, instead of trying to patch it up it's better to tear it down and build something different. That's my view of British politics.
johnny the fox Posted 9 June 2016 Posted 9 June 2016 http://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/678510/Secretive-Bilderberg-And-you-wonder-WHY-many-claim-Illuminati-creating-New-World-Order Mmmmmmm
ScouseFox Posted 9 June 2016 Posted 9 June 2016 on a scale from 1-10 how much is boris johnson regretting signing up to this debate with 5 other birds who clearly hate him
Strokes Posted 9 June 2016 Posted 9 June 2016 Here's a scenario for you: UK votes Brexit, Call Me Dave walks the plank, Boris takes over but is unable to govern his party and meets a hard-line response from Brussels. Meanwhile, uncertainty causes an economic downturn. An early election is held later this year, against a backdrop of political and economic crisis. The public turn against the Govt and Tory voters switch to UKIP or Lib Dems or stay at home. Labour win an absolute majority. By Xmas, Corbyn could be in No. 10 overseeing British withdrawal from the EU! I'd take that over remain any day.
johnny the fox Posted 9 June 2016 Posted 9 June 2016 I'd take that over remain any day. me fookin too.. and i think corbyn is a clown...
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