The EU referendum - IN / OUT or Shake it all about.

[Strokes]

He's the leader that was chosen by the party that had the majority of the small amount of votes needed at the last election.

 

and on the other side we have Michael Gove 

Is he trustworthy in your eyes Fif?

[Jon the Hat]

Utterly bored by all the campaign nonsense now.  I come back to one defining point.  The EU is a political & bureaucratic mess that will dissolve within a decade because it is incapable of reform.  Why tie our nation to something which is bound to fail.  Jump now and we will be in a far better position to get through the inevitable recession when it comes.

[johnny the fox]

At least you'd have a job at last.

Ha ha... not sure what you are on about there.. you obviously think you know something  about me and my circumstances..ha ha ..you have no idea....this personal stuff just ain't working for you ..

[Buce]

It's a fair point but I think it's less likely with EU migrants as they don't migrate in packs (or whatever the correct collective noun maybe).

A wave of immigrants?

[Guest]

Is he trustworthy in your eyes Fif?

 

He's a politician.

 

I wouldn't trust any of them with my pocket money.

[Guest]

Utterly bored by all the campaign nonsense now.  I come back to one defining point.  The EU is a political & bureaucratic mess that will dissolve within a decade because it is incapable of reform.  Why tie our nation to something which is bound to fail.  Jump now and we will be in a far better position to get through the inevitable recession when it comes.

 

Well if that's the case we'd just extend the recession.

 

If the UK leave they'll go into recession.

[Guest]

 

[Guest]

A wave of immigrants?

 

Isn't that only when they are leaving?

[Buce]

Isn't that only when they are leaving?

Possibly.

How about a coming-over-here-raping-our-women-and-stealing-our-jobs-and-defrauding-the-benefit-system-while-planning-to-blow-us-up-if-we-refuse-sharia-law of immigrants?

[Buce]

When is a Brexit not a Brexit?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/06/pro-eu-mps-could-mount-guerrilla-campaign-to-reverse-brexit-decision

This spits in the face of democracy.

[Webbo]

When is a Brexit not a Brexit?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/06/pro-eu-mps-could-mount-guerrilla-campaign-to-reverse-brexit-decision

This spits in the face of democracy.

It's a hypothetical scenario, I doubt it would happen.

 

I think there's an argument, should we vote out, for a snap Election to decide who negotiates on our behalf. If not, there should certainly be a cross party group conducting the negotiations.

[Stadt]

It's a hypothetical scenario, I doubt it would happen.

I think there's an argument, should we vote out, for a snap Election to decide who negotiates on our behalf. If not, there should certainly be a cross party group conducting the negotiations.

yep, the referendum has been damaged by the associated party politics

[Thracian]

Watching Labour's Hilary Benn avoiding direct answers to Andrew Neil's questions on why we should Remain in the EU was pathetic.

 

Of the eight or 10 questions he tried to wriggle around he wasn't the least bit convincing about anything. In fact he represented as good an argument for getting out as anyone I've listened to.

 

Times Neil had to repeat the question several times because Benn was so determined with his sidestepping.

 

On immigration he basically said Labour would have no real controls unless the economy demanded it and his points only emphasised to me that  Labour will continue to support ever increasing immigration as a means of importing votes while totally ignoring the impact on infrastructures of all kinds - and the concerns of so many British people, many of whom might well have historically preferred a Labour government . 

 

I was disappointed frankly. At the worst I expected fairly convincing reasons to at least some of the questions. All I witnessed was a politicians version of the Ali Shuffle and a pretty poor imitation at that. 

[Thracian]

Well if that's the case we'd just extend the recession.

 

If the UK leave they'll go into recession.

 

 

Explain by all means. 

[johnny the fox]

Watching Labour's Hilary Benn avoiding direct answers to Andrew Neil's questions on why we should Remain in the EU was pathetic.

 

Of the eight or 10 questions he tried to wriggle around he wasn't the least bit convincing about anything. In fact he represented as good an argument for getting out as anyone I've listened to.

 

Times Neil had to repeat the question several times because Benn was so determined with his sidestepping.

 

On immigration he basically said Labour would have no real controls unless the economy demanded it and his points only emphasised to me that  Labour will continue to support ever increasing immigration as a means of importing votes while totally ignoring the impact on infrastructures of all kinds - and the concerns of so many British people, many of whom might well have historically preferred a Labour government . 

 

I was disappointed frankly. At the worst I expected fairly convincing reasons to at least some of the questions. All I witnessed was a politicians version of the Ali Shuffle and a pretty poor imitation at that. 

He certainly ain't his dad......hilary is another dodgy fooker ..who led the charge into bombing syria and iraq.... with a "wonderful" speech that was applauded in the commons.. putting proper brave men in harms way, he looks as weak as piss..

[The Railway Man]

Watching Labour's Hilary Benn avoiding direct answers to Andrew Neil's questions on why we should Remain in the EU was pathetic.

 

Of the eight or 10 questions he tried to wriggle around he wasn't the least bit convincing about anything. In fact he represented as good an argument for getting out as anyone I've listened to.

 

Times Neil had to repeat the question several times because Benn was so determined with his sidestepping.

 

On immigration he basically said Labour would have no real controls unless the economy demanded it and his points only emphasised to me that  Labour will continue to support ever increasing immigration as a means of importing votes while totally ignoring the impact on infrastructures of all kinds - and the concerns of so many British people, many of whom might well have historically preferred a Labour government . 

 

I was disappointed frankly. At the worst I expected fairly convincing reasons to at least some of the questions. All I witnessed was a politicians version of the Ali Shuffle and a pretty poor imitation at that. 

 

He was absolutely awful. Hillary Benn is supposed to be good as well isn';t he? I dont think I have ever seen a politician avoid so many questions on purpose purely because he coudlnt answer them, I've had a few second thoughtsb over the last few weeks but watching that again convinced me leaving is the best course, you almost get the feeling these people want to stay so they can offload responsibility rather than embrace it.

[The Railway Man]

 

Another challenging in the "worst piece of scaremongering" coming from the people who produced this as well, does anyone have any evidence whatsoever all these things will be immediately torn to pieces?

 

What does "fair treatment" even mean and how do you rip it up?

 

For a start on the above mentioned progarm last night it was pointed out to Hillary Benn that UK law now gives us MORE RIGHTS to paid holiday than the EU does already, so if if hasn't been ripped up now why would it be ripped up after we leave?

 

 

The worst thing about it seems to be Labour are now admitting to the whole nation they can't even govern either on their own, if they aren't careful they could be throwing away millions more votes to UKIP after this.

[davieG]

 

Another challenging in the "worst piece of scaremongering" coming from the people who produced this as well, does anyone have any evidence whatsoever all these things will be immediately torn to pieces?

 

What does "fair treatment" even mean and how do you rip it up?

 

For a start on the above mentioned progarm last night it was pointed out to Hillary Benn that UK law now gives us MORE RIGHTS to paid holiday than the EU does already, so if if hasn't been ripped up now why would it be ripped up after we leave?

 

 

The worst thing about it seems to be Labour are now admitting to the whole nation they can't even govern either on their own, if they aren't careful they could be throwing away millions more votes to UKIP after this.

Things like this will only get ripped up if the Government of the day chooses to do so

[The Railway Man]

Things like this will only get ripped up if the Government of the day chooses to do so

 

Exactly, and if the Tories want to be elected again everyone deep down knows they wont.

[Footballwipe]

It's been a ridiculous campaign. One side says something, the other dismisses it out of hand. It's exactly the same with the deeply embedded of each camp too.

 

Personally I'm for staying in but both sides have to take a long, hard look at themselves and ask whether they've truly represented their case well. The bloody scaremongering, the dismissing of each others arguments. Not being able to back up their claims. Some of these can be difficult because we're in the unknown but lord almighty throwing facts out there with no explanation is just wrong in a campaign of this stature. A sheer mess.

 

Maybe I'm a dreamer for wanting a civilised debate. "Yes, that's true, if we did exit X would happen, however..." rather than "THEY'RE SCAREMONGERING AND RACIST DO YOU WANT THIS TO HAPPEN ARE YOU SURE?"

 

The way the campaigns have run has only strengthened the resolve of those passionate for each side and given them siege mentality. You know for sure that if the vote is nothing clearer than 60-40 either way the losing side will squeal foul play or "It was too close we need to do it again."

 

Thank god for the Euros.

[Guest]

It's been a ridiculous campaign. One side says something, the other dismisses it out of hand. It's exactly the same with the deeply embedded of each camp too.

 

Personally I'm for staying in but both sides have to take a long, hard look at themselves and ask whether they've truly represented their case well. The bloody scaremongering, the dismissing of each others arguments. Not being able to back up their claims. Some of these can be difficult because we're in the unknown but lord almighty throwing facts out there with no explanation is just wrong in a campaign of this stature. A sheer mess.

 

Maybe I'm a dreamer for wanting a civilised debate. "Yes, that's true, if we did exit X would happen, however..." rather than "THEY'RE SCAREMONGERING AND RACIST DO YOU WANT THIS TO HAPPEN ARE YOU SURE?"

 

The way the campaigns have run has only strengthened the resolve of those passionate for each side and given them siege mentality. You know for sure that if the vote is nothing clearer than 60-40 either way the losing side will squeal foul play or "It was too close we need to do it again."

 

Thank god for the Euros.

 

So when NI, I, W and E get eliminated is that the Brexit?

[Thracian]

 

Another challenging in the "worst piece of scaremongering" coming from the people who produced this as well, does anyone have any evidence whatsoever all these things will be immediately torn to pieces?

 

What does "fair treatment" even mean and how do you rip it up?

 

For a start on the above mentioned progarm last night it was pointed out to Hillary Benn that UK law now gives us MORE RIGHTS to paid holiday than the EU does already, so if if hasn't been ripped up now why would it be ripped up after we leave?

 

 

The worst thing about it seems to be Labour are now admitting to the whole nation they can't even govern either on their own, if they aren't careful they could be throwing away millions more votes to UKIP after this.

 

It's been a ridiculous campaign. One side says something, the other dismisses it out of hand. It's exactly the same with the deeply embedded of each camp too.

 

Personally I'm for staying in but both sides have to take a long, hard look at themselves and ask whether they've truly represented their case well. The bloody scaremongering, the dismissing of each others arguments. Not being able to back up their claims. Some of these can be difficult because we're in the unknown but lord almighty throwing facts out there with no explanation is just wrong in a campaign of this stature. A sheer mess.

 

Maybe I'm a dreamer for wanting a civilised debate. "Yes, that's true, if we did exit X would happen, however..." rather than "THEY'RE SCAREMONGERING AND RACIST DO YOU WANT THIS TO HAPPEN ARE YOU SURE?"

 

The way the campaigns have run has only strengthened the resolve of those passionate for each side and given them siege mentality. You know for sure that if the vote is nothing clearer than 60-40 either way the losing side will squeal foul play or "It was too close we need to do it again."

 

Thank god for the Euros.

 

 

 

Benn was laughable over worker rights and maternity leave/holiday pay in particular. He rambled on about EU wide protection then Andrew Neil pointed out that our own levels of payment for both items were already higher than the EU's benchmarks and added there was no suggestion that any UK government would erode those rights. Benn had no recognisable defence.

 

There was more and all ending in the same embarrassing result: Neil 1, Benn 0.  If it had been a boxing match the fight would have been stopped. 

[theessexfox]

I thought Neil was pretty unfair and obtuse some of the time, regarding TTIP it was clear that Benn was saying that Labour would reject TTIP in it's current form but obviously would still be open to some form of trade deal with the USA, Neil twisted that very nicely. 

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

Utterly bored by all the campaign nonsense now.  I come back to one defining point.  The EU is a political & bureaucratic mess that will dissolve within a decade because it is incapable of reform.  Why tie our nation to something which is bound to fail.  Jump now and we will be in a far better position to get through the inevitable recession when it comes.

Spot on; all of it. 

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Well if you're not sick of it all yet - we have Dave vs Nigel on ITV now!