apple987 Posted 13 June 2016 Posted 13 June 2016 What I'm confused about is why everyone is saying it's a once in a lifetime opportunity to leave. Well surely if Boris was the next PM he could just say we are leaving or have another referendum? I'm hoping we leave the EU, but if we don't then I'm still hoping there will be another opportunity in a few years
Webbo Posted 13 June 2016 Posted 13 June 2016 The sun newspaper has backed brexit in tomorrows paper. What I don't get is why a Murdoch owned paper is going for brexit and sky news (murdoch) is so biased towards remain. Confusing. Actually just Googled it and Murdoch doesn't actually own sky. I thought he did I read the Mail on Sunday. It wouldn't surprise me, reading it, if The MoS wanted to remain and the Daily Mail said leave.
apple987 Posted 13 June 2016 Posted 13 June 2016 I read the Mail on Sunday. It wouldn't surprise me, reading it, if The MoS wanted to remain and the Daily Mail said leave. Daily mail is definitely on the leave side. I see what you mean though, have a foot in both camps?
Thracian Posted 13 June 2016 Posted 13 June 2016 Never mind Cameron's clearly insincere comment about reducing/controlling immigration, it seems there's absolutely no chance of remaining in the EU and seeing any substantial cuts - and that's without taking account of Turkey's potential joining. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36514849 Population growth, including immigration, has been dramatic for years and the impact on services considerable. But sustained for another 20 years at least, the pressure will be stifling as the potential for all kinds of crises quite possibly uncontainable. Even relatively recent incomers are uncomfortable about immigration levels and some older ones have been critcal for a long time. The EU's not going to change anything until it's forced to by protest, violence, reform, its own collapse or the kind of intollerant or over-reactive politics most would wish us to avoid. We don't have great influence within the corridors of Brussels despite Cameron's inference that we might have so the only real chance of our managing the situation for the next two decades at least is to facilitate it ourselves and even that will require a change of leadership and a change of philosophy to one that is considered, sustainable and good for our country. We've been a vigorous largely independent trading nation for centuries so i can't conceive of anything different if we leave the EU (business people won't commit financial suicide by ignoring 70million potential customers) so I'm strongly in the Leave corner. I don't like the EU set-up anyway and believe it's just a tiny push from collapsing or becoming even worse than it is now.
Webbo Posted 13 June 2016 Posted 13 June 2016 Daily mail is definitely on the leave side. I see what you mean though, have a foot in both camps? The MoS has a lot of interviews from people sympathetic to remain. Even if they're not allowed to endorse remain somebody on that paper is trying to persuade us that way.
bovril Posted 13 June 2016 Posted 13 June 2016 Never mind Cameron's clearly insincere comment about reducing/controlling immigration, it seems there's absolutely no chance of remaining in the EU and seeing any substantial cuts - and that's without taking account of Turkey's potential joining. I notice you often mention Turkey's accession to the EU and the politics in the country. With your username as well, do you have any links to the region?
Thracian Posted 13 June 2016 Posted 13 June 2016 I notice you often mention Turkey's accession to the EU and the politics in the country. With your username as well, do you have any links to the region? The nearest I've been to Turkey is Bulgaria so no. I have a Turkish friend who's working in Stratford. She came here to distance herself from the developing regime there. From what's been said and what I've read Turkey is deeply divided with many Northerners inclined towards the West and others married to Erdogan's revival of the caliphate. I've also discovered that a huge number of vehicle parts, many of them vital to JCB machines, are made in Turkey and not easily outsourced anywhere else for all that JCB's boss is such an advocate of leaving the EU. In happier times I'd have enjoyed visiting Turkey - just as I so nearly visited friends in Tunisia. But it's unlikely now. Indeed a friend who works in the tourism industry in Tunisia says Sousse is like a tourist ghost town since the beach murders and the impact has been devastating. She too would love to work here but it's not easy for a Muslim girl to leave her home town alone, let alone her country.
bovril Posted 13 June 2016 Posted 13 June 2016 The nearest I've been to Turkey is Bulgaria so no. I have a Turkish friend who's working in Stratford. She came here to distance herself from the developing regime there. From what's been said and what I've read Turkey is deeply divided with many Northerners inclined towards the West and others married to Erdogan's revival of the caliphate. I've also discovered that a huge number of vehicle parts, many of them vital to JCB machines, are made in Turkey and not easily outsourced anywhere else for all that JCB's boss is such an advocate of leaving the EU. In happier times I'd have enjoyed visiting Turkey - just as I so nearly visited friends in Tunisia. But it's unlikely now. Indeed a friend who works in the tourism industry in Tunisia says Sousse is like a tourist ghost town since the beach murders and the impact has been devastating. She too would love to work here but it's not easy for a Muslim girl to leave her home town alone, let alone her country. I've lived in Turkey and BG. Turkey is indeed very divided and increasingly repressive. Neighbouring Balkan countries are also getting a bit twitchy as Erdogan tours the region and claims Thrace and Macedonia to be 'eternally Turkish'. Turkey has great influence in Bulgarian politics. I also have many Tunisian friends who say the same thing.
Guest MattP Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 I can see a similar situation in Wapping Webb. The Sunday Times might back Brexit and The Times might back remain from what I'm reading. Everyone seems to have serious reservations though, I'd bet only the Guardian fervently backs remain unconditionally.
Buce Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 A chilling vision from Polly Toynbee: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/13/brexit-supporters-leave-vote-right
Guest MattP Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 It's literally going to be a week now of calling everyone who wants to leave a bigot, xenophobic and racist isn't it? To say remain is getting desperate is an understatement.
Guest MattP Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 The YouGov poll claims 35% of Labour voters and 31% of Lib Dems back a Brexit, 54% Tories and 91% UKIP. That's a huge Labour leave vote for a party almost unanimously backing remain. Same mistakes taste Scotland being made.
johnny the fox Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2016/jun/14/labour-supporters-brexit-stoke-on-trent-eu-referendum-video Eu ain't working here...
Guest Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 One sure way to get an upsurge in extremist groups is to vote to stay in.... when peoples national sovereignty is diluted or partly taken away they will react .. the further away the decisions are from the citizens who are on the receiving end of them, the more extreme will be the reaction.. unfortunately it is only usually regained with the shedding of blood.. . because empire / union never gives it back willingly.... Better build a very big wall. Keep the foreigners out and stop coastal erosion. Very green.
Guest Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 look mate, cut the snide pointless comments it achieves fook all. and sheds light on less.. just vote.. and live with outcome. lets leave it at that ok? that's what I will doing. Do you have to insult everyone?
Guest Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 What I'm confused about is why everyone is saying it's a once in a lifetime opportunity to leave. Well surely if Boris was the next PM he could just say we are leaving or have another referendum? I'm hoping we leave the EU, but if we don't then I'm still hoping there will be another opportunity in a few years Scaremongering?
Samilktray Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 Is there anywhere I can read a fairly simple break down of the pros & cons of leaving/staying and how it will effect the average working man like me
Guest Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 It's literally going to be a week now of calling everyone who wants to leave a bigot, xenophobic and racist isn't it? To say remain is getting desperate is an understatement. But there's some truth to that isn't there.
DJ Barry Hammond Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 Is there anywhere I can read a fairly simple break down of the pros & cons of leaving/staying and how it will effect the average working man like me https://fullfact.org/europe/ Try here.
apple987 Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 Is there anywhere I can read a fairly simple break down of the pros & cons of leaving/staying and how it will effect the average working man like me From what I can tell, remaining in the EU is good for the rich and well off. Leaving EU is best for the working people. We see the effects of immigration first hand. Those who have private health care and live in the countryside etc don't see it
johnny the fox Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 A chilling vision from Polly Toynbee: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/13/brexit-supporters-leave-vote-right what hoot.. looks like the toys have really been kicked out of the liberal pram...
apple987 Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 Wow. Leave the EU is now 5/4 with bookmakers. Was 11/2 a few weeks back.
apple987 Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 Just hope the leave campaign doesn't become complacent. I have a feeling these polls are actually being exaggerated to make leave feel complacent and to get remain camp to up there game
Buce Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 From what I can tell, remaining in the EU is good for the rich and well off. Leaving EU is best for the working people. We see the effects of immigration first hand. Those who have private health care and live in the countryside etc don't see it It seems to me that the idea that leaving the EU will solve the immigration problem is a myth. We receive more immigrants from outside the EU than from within it. And you're kidding yourself if you think the ordinary working man has anything to gain. The Tories will just use the economic turmoil that will ensue as an excuse for even more austerity.
Guest Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 To think the world of the working class man is going to be better because of a Brexit is quite funny. "Leave the EU and our problems are solved" Sorry just re-read and it was working man not working class. Will a Brexit get all those British unemployed into jobs too? If that was the case I could understand the argument - no dole scroungers, no benefit payments, higher percentage of tax payers ... Will a Brexit also get all those single mothers married too?
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