yorkie1999 Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 To think the world of the working class man is going to be better because of a Brexit is quite funny. "Leave the EU and our problems are solved" Sorry just re-read and it was working man not working class. Will a Brexit get all those British unemployed into jobs too? If that was the case I could understand the argument - no dole scroungers, no benefit payments, higher percentage of tax payers ... Will a Brexit also get all those single mothers married too? Are you entitled to a vote?
kingcarr21 Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 I will be honest and admit I am ignorant when it comes to this. I haven't been following either campaign. Im just waiting until nearer the time to make my decision. I can assume that things have been said over the last few weeks that have come out as lies from both sides. I would also assume that closer to the time I would be able to see some pros and cons from either side. If I had to vote right now I would choose to leave simply based on how other countries are doing that aren't in the EU. I suppose I should do a bit more research than that though
The Railway Man Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 A chilling vision from Polly Toynbee: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/13/brexit-supporters-leave-vote-right When I read this you can see why leave is starting to increase it's lead, remain has nothing left except exagerations about what might happen under a potential Tory government. She is literally the gold standard for the hypocritical left these days, snobby, snearing and a do as I say not as I do outlook on life. I love the fact she got a shock whilst finally leaving Guardian HQ to have a chat with the little people she loves to lecture. The best thing that could happen after this is working class people realise Labour and the Tories treat them with total comtempt and should be treated the same as each other.
Guest Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 Are you entitled to a vote? nah; have to have held permo residence in the UK in the last 15 years. I'll still be affected though. I'm a British National.
Guest MattP Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 It seems to me that the idea that leaving the EU will solve the immigration problem is a myth. We receive more immigrants from outside the EU than from within it. And you're kidding yourself if you think the ordinary working man has anything to gain. The Tories will just use the economic turmoil that will ensue as an excuse for even more austerity. Are you joking Buce?! Even those in the remain camp have admitted as much, Lord Rose, one of the leading figures in remain has said wages will rise for the lowest paid if we exit the EU, George Osborne said a Brexit means house prices will drop (something only someone as out of touch as him could see as a bad thing). How could those two things not be something to gain for the ordinary working man?
Guest MattP Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 To think the world of the working class man is going to be better because of a Brexit is quite funny. "Leave the EU and our problems are solved" No one is saying that, stop exaggerating eveything, this is why you are starting to lose this argument, it's nothing but scaremongering and hyperbole from remain. Get back to just calling us all racist, as least you actually believe that.
TiffToff88 Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 The best thing i have seen during this whole referendum was a man who was voting out because he didn't want to be a part of Europe any more, not the European Union, but Europe! He genuinely thought we were voting to leave the continent. After looking into this even further, it worries me the amount of people who actually think this is what the vote is about. And for that reason, i'm genuinely worried that the Out campaign will win, there are too many uneducated morons being allowed to vote. Don't get me wrong, SOME brexit campaigners do have some genuinely good arguments for why they want to leave the EU, and i respect them for that, but a lot of them have no idea what they're talking about!
Guest Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 Are you joking Buce?! Even those in the remain camp have admitted as much, Lord Rose, one of the leading figures in remain has said wages will rise for the lowest paid if we exit the EU, George Osborne said a Brexit means house prices will drop (something only someone as out of touch as him could see as a bad thing). How could those two things not be something to gain for the ordinary working man? Why would either of those two things (if they happen) help an ordinary working man? A wage rise for the lowest paid would simply result in less benefits and more tax for them. A house price drop helps the very rich. It's low mortgage repayments (interest rates) that help lower paid people. We have historically low rates now which means the only likely change to them with a brexit is an increase which will be a bad thing for the ordinary working man. In fact stay in or leave and the liklihood is of a large increase in foreclosures in the future. It can be blamed on the decision though by the MPs you democratically elect and have the power over
Strokes Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 But there's some truth to that isn't there. Well if over 50% of the nations population is racist or bigotry, it's probably best we do come out.
Guest Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 No one is saying that, stop exaggerating eveything, this is why you are starting to lose this argument, it's nothing but scaremongering and hyperbole from remain. Get back to just calling us all racist, as least you actually believe that. I'm not losing anything - I have no vote. If you haven't worked out that both sides are simply scaremongering then you have been blinded by whichever side you're following.
Guest MattP Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 Why would either of those two things (if they happen) help an ordinary working man? A wage rise for the lowest paid would simply result in less benefits and more tax for them. A house price drop helps the very rich. It's low mortgage repayments (interest rates) that help lower paid people. We have historically low rates now which means the only likely change to them with a brexit is an increase which will be a bad thing for the ordinary working man. Taxation and benefits payments are the responsibility of the government, they can change either if they want too. A higher wage doesn't have to mean more taxation, look at the what the government have done with increasing the tax threshold. I don't think I really need to respond to the house question, a lot of people can't get on the housing ladder these days let alone dream of a low mortgage repayment.
Guest Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 Well if over 50% of the nations population is racist or bigotry, it's probably best we do come out. There are shades of racism and bigotry without needing to be a full blown racist/Bigot Sadly the population will still be as racist and bigoted after it pulls out as it was before.
Guest MattP Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 There are shades of racism and bigotry without needing to be a full blown racist/Bigot Sadly the population will still be as racist and bigoted after it pulls out as it was before. It will be heaven for you though, getting to call the British population racist all day every day? Christmas come early.
Strokes Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 I don't mind admitting I'm a bigot, I think everyone is. Even those screaming from the rooftops about it. Bigotry is such a vague terminology. A person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions: don’t let a few small-minded bigots destroy the good image of the city he was a fanatical bigot I don't like lots of people for their opinions or beliefs. It's not prejudice because that's what makes a person, their opinions, beliefs and actions.
Guest Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 Taxation and benefits payments are the responsibility of the government, they can change either if they want too. A higher wage doesn't have to mean more taxation, look at the what the government have done with increasing the tax threshold. I don't think I really need to respond to the house question, a lot of people can't get on the housing ladder these days let alone dream of a low mortgage repayment. Your first argument proves that being part of the EU has nothing to do with a higher wage. As you state the conservative government could enforce that if it so wished. It doesn't so not a reason to leave. A lot of people are lucky that they can't get on the housing ladder and be subjected to taxes which they can't hide from, losing benefits that are not available to homeowners that are to renters. The whole idea of owning your own house is complex created by the Tories playing on people's avarice to have what others have without understanding the cost. Maybe you should speak to people who can't afford their mortgages even now but can't sell their homes. Repossessions are at an incredible level and are only going to get worse once the interest rates increase. Still the crashing pound should make houses cheaper for the foreigners to buy the best in England.
Guest MattP Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 Just hope the leave campaign doesn't become complacent. I have a feeling these polls are actually being exaggerated to make leave feel complacent and to get remain camp to up there game Very good point and very possible. That rogue 51% leave poll in the Indyref was a huge galvaniser for the remain campaign, although I don't think this lot are capable of this (and Cameron can't promise any devomax) the last thing we should do is get complacent. I thought we needed 5% lead going into polling day to account for swing and status quo voters,we are only just above that. It's still all play for although we are surely now a long way from any sort of remain vote that saves Call me Dave and Gideon, Cameron now 6/4 fav to leave his job in 2016 - that's a cracking bet.
Buce Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 Are you joking Buce?! Even those in the remain camp have admitted as much, Lord Rose, one of the leading figures in remain has said wages will rise for the lowest paid if we exit the EU, George Osborne said a Brexit means house prices will drop (something only someone as out of touch as him could see as a bad thing). How could those two things not be something to gain for the ordinary working man? I don't see how Lord Rose or anybody else can forecast what a Tory govt would do post-Brexit. One thing I will forecast, though, is that a Tory govt that has lurched even further to the right, will use the opportunity to impose more ideological cuts, which is what austerity really is.
The Blur Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 I am getting rather sick of either side being on their high horses and accusing other side of 'scaremongering'. I have only been awake for a hour or so yet I already saw a Brexiter saying that if we stay in, Turkey will join EU and bomb us. I also saw a Remainer uploading a collage of all celebrities with likes of Obama and Branson on Remain side and Trump/Hopkins on Out side on Facebook. They are just bad as each other and one of the most uninspiring thing about this referendum is how this have turned normally intelligent people into paranoid rabid gibbering wrecks who are convinced that they are right and the other side are raving mad.
Webbo Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 I don't see how Lord Rose or anybody else can forecast what a Tory govt would do post-Brexit. One thing I will forecast, though, is that a Tory govt that has lurched even further to the right, will use the opportunity to impose more ideological cuts, which is what austerity really is. If he can't predict what awful things the tories will do how can you?
Buce Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 When I read this you can see why leave is starting to increase it's lead, remain has nothing left except exagerations about what might happen under a potential Tory government. She is literally the gold standard for the hypocritical left these days, snobby, snearing and a do as I say not as I do outlook on life. I love the fact she got a shock whilst finally leaving Guardian HQ to have a chat with the little people she loves to lecture. The best thing that could happen after this is working class people realise Labour and the Tories treat them with total comtempt and should be treated the same as each other. I never thought to see the day that we would agree on anything. Strange times indeed.
Guest Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 It will be heaven for you though, getting to call the British population racist all day every day? Christmas come early. I've never done that. I praise the country for being multi-racial and having very few problems. I hold up England and Leicester in particular for being tolerant and a good example. But if you can't see your prejudices then I'm just trying to show you. It's easier to see something when you look from a disatnce and from the outside. Most people have shades of racism within them and their own bigotry.
Guest MattP Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 I don't see how Lord Rose or anybody else can forecast what a Tory govt would do post-Brexit. One thing I will forecast, though, is that a Tory govt that has lurched even further to the right, will use the opportunity to impose more ideological cuts, which is what austerity really is. If you want to see what austerity really is I'd recommend you take a look what the European Commission, Troika and ECB all enforced on Greece through political muscle. Look at what they did to Tsipras when they dragged him to the European Parliament to bully him into accepting conditions his voters refused. Your first argument proves that being part of the EU has nothing to do with a higher wage. As you state the conservative government could enforce that if it so wished. It doesn't so not a reason to leave. A lot of people are lucky that they can't get on the housing ladder and be subjected to taxes which they can't hide from, losing benefits that are not available to homeowners that are to renters. The whole idea of owning your own house is complex created by the Tories playing on people's avarice to have what others have without understanding the cost. Maybe you should speak to people who can't afford their mortgages even now but can't sell their homes. Repossessions are at an incredible level and are only going to get worse once the interest rates increase. Still the crashing pound should make houses cheaper for the foreigners to buy the best in England. Everyone should aspire to own their own home FIF, for a start it's the best pension you'll ever own, to say they shouldn't aim for this because there are benefits avaliable to renters is ridiculous, it became just as complex to own a house under the last Labour government as this one, but as you've been out the country for so long I'll forgive that oversight. Your argument on house prices makes no sense, you've said yourself we have low interest rates ( http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/04/01/house-prices-rise-by-highest-rate-in-a-year-as-buyers-rush-to-av/) and house prices are rising to the highest level for ages, if people can't afford the mortgage and can't afford to sell now it's going to get worse whatever the situation. And there we go at the end with more scaremongering, even if you believe the treasury about a recession it's still predicted by them to be the most shallow one in our history.
Guest Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 I don't mind admitting I'm a bigot, I think everyone is. Even those screaming from the rooftops about it. Bigotry is such a vague terminology. A person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions: don’t let a few small-minded bigots destroy the good image of the city he was a fanatical bigot I don't like lots of people for their opinions or beliefs. It's not prejudice because that's what makes a person, their opinions, beliefs and actions. I agree with you completely. On this website I'm disagreeing with some people's views not with those people (well maybe 1 or 2 )
Guest MattP Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 If he can't predict what awful things the tories will do how can you? The idea that the Tories are going to wipe out workers rights, holiday pay, the NHS etc is so ridiculous it's not worth bothering with. People seem to be getting that delirious they've forgotton political parties like the Conservatives survive to win elections. You don't do that if you engage with the above.
Rincewind Posted 14 June 2016 Posted 14 June 2016 I may regret my vote now that Trump and Hopkins are for out. But as they say you are buggered if you do and buggered if you don't.
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