The EU referendum - IN / OUT or Shake it all about.

[Thracian]

Then again a profit motive is very effective at improving efficiency. I certainly don't believe that implementation of "green tech" would have been achieved any faster by a government department than by a private sector motivated by profit. Those industries are heavily regulated anyway, if a government wants to push a green tech agenda they can do that through the regulator.

 

 

Profit motive also offers individual incentive which is the lifeblood of business success. 

[James.]

You'll find no argument from me there, Matt.

I'm not trying convince anybody that the EU is a wonderful institution - there is much about it that I thoroughly dislike - and I am yet to decide which way I will vote, but the prospect of an unshackled right-wing govt greatly concerns me.

 

It does me as well but at least it would be our democratically elected unshackled right wing government and it is our responsibility to hold it to account.

 

I've drifted more and more towards Leave over the past week or so when I consider this not in terms of the next couple of years but rather what it guarantees future generations - and that is the independence to build the country we want, free from outside interference. I see it as effectively empowering UK citizens to determine their own destiny.

 

On top of that I can't help but feel the EU is a failing organization and what was started off as a noble cause is slowly becoming practically unworkable.

[Strokes]

It does me as well but at least it would be our democratically elected unshackled right wing government and it is our responsibility to hold it to account.

 

I've drifted more and more towards Leave over the past week or so when I consider this not in terms of the next couple of years but rather what it guarantees future generations - and that is the independence to build the country we want, free from outside interference. I see it as effectively empowering UK citizens to determine their own destiny.

 

On top of that I can't help but feel the EU is a failing organization and what was started off as a noble cause is slowly becoming practically unworkable.

I don't think a divided Tory government with a small majority could cause much harm tbh.

[Darkon84]

Just as a side note, it's all kicking off again in Paris at the minute with the labour reform protests, smashing up shops, throwing bottles at police, protesters arming themselves with metal poles etc. I thought the remain campaign were telling us that workers rights are far safer if you stay in, and by leaving, the entire economy and every right you have will be gone?

[Guest MattP]

I've drifted more and more towards Leave over the past week or so when I consider this not in terms of the next couple of years but rather what it guarantees future generations - and that is the independence to build the country we want, free from outside interference. I see it as effectively empowering UK citizens to determine their own destiny.

 

That's the reason I've supported leaving from the start, if you believe in the nation state then you have to believe the government elected by the people of that nation state should get the law makers they vote for.

 

I do think the EU could have been a good thing, but it's far exceeded what it's pupose could have been and is now totally incapable of reforming itself into anything different.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

That's the theory, anyone who can remember the old nationalised industries will tell you they were expensive, overmanned monopolies with a like it or lump it attitude to service.

 

Water in particular needed massive investment in infrastructure that the govt didn't want to provide as there were no votes in it.

  

Then again a profit motive is very effective at improving efficiency. I certainly don't believe that implementation of "green tech" would have been achieved any faster by a government department than by a private sector motivated by profit. Those industries are heavily regulated anyway, if a government wants to push a green tech agenda they can do that through the regulator.

Since when does state ownership = efficiency?

 

Profit motive also offers individual incentive which is the lifeblood of business success.

This is the common perceived perception, but there is strictly no reason why that should be the case - and in reality private companies can be run as badly as public ones.

Profit motive, incentives actions that devise profit. Long term spending will only be attractive if it produces a significant yield on that spending - if it doesn't it won't be made. And let's be clear, not all efficiency savings are really that - some result in minimislising of service or other corner cutting measures.

This argument also often ignores the viability of other models, such as public / private co-operatives, or a trust /co-operative model. For example, if the energy sector had been broken up into 6/7 co-operatives, with the ability to compete with each other, you have a strong mix of private and public thinking.

There is also an argument to say the Free Market encomny can get to a stagnation stage - where competing companies are reasonably comfortable with their market share and there's only minimal churn between a companies. It's certainly what's happening in the energy sector where you have the big 6 - there's no incentive for any of them to take a huge risk and spend significant money on taking the others on, so they just sit and achieve growth by increasing margin, not market share.

Now although this may seem off topic a little, it is something worth thinking about, because Osborne's position as chancellor will be under as much if not even more scrutiny as Cameron's under a vote to leave - and as much as that seems a good thing initially, you then ponder which bastard in blue would get the job going forward and what idiology would they bring to it? Perhaps, this is the job Gove gets?

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Anyway, as this thread does seem to be very circular at the moment - something to Spring a bit of side debate and possibly help some of us make some profit.

What UK companies would benefit in the event of a Brexit and why?

I position it this way, because this is possibly the safest* way to try and make some money on the outcome, because if a Remain vote was returned these companies conditions would remain as they were (so you shouldn't see a fall in the companies share price), but naturally their shares should gain if a Brexit vote happened.

I plan to do some homework on this myself, but initial thoughts would be someone like Sky, who have had EU competition rules go against them (all those pubs could be forced to use Sky rather than Greek Sky for example!) or a company that imports lots of raw material from outside the EU / focuses its exports to non EU countries.

*Please note, I'm not offering to underwrite any loses, you play the market at your own risk!

[johnny the fox]

Anyway, as this thread does seem to be very circular at the moment - something to Spring a bit of side debate and possibly help some of us make some profit.

What UK companies would benefit in the event of a Brexit and why?

I position it this way, because this is possibly the safest* way to try and make some money on the outcome, because if a Remain vote was returned these companies conditions would remain as they were (so you shouldn't see a fall in the companies share price), but naturally their shares should gain if a Brexit vote happened.

I plan to do some homework on this myself, but initial thoughts would be someone like Sky, who have had EU competition rules go against them (all those pubs could be forced to use Sky rather than Greek Sky for example!) or a company that imports lots of raw material from outside the EU / focuses its exports to non EU countries.

*Please note, I'm not offering to underwrite any loses, you play the market at your own risk!

Tate and Lyle sugar cane  , they won't have to pay massive import duties to protect sugar beet growers in the EU..

[Rincewind]

Just as a side note, it's all kicking off again in Paris at the minute with the labour reform protests, smashing up shops, throwing bottles at police, protesters arming themselves with metal poles etc. I thought the remain campaign were telling us that workers rights are far safer if you stay in, and by leaving, the entire economy and every right you have will be gone?

I saw something that said If only football fans showed as much passion against corruption and austerity than they do about teams.

 

Maybe football is more important. Doesn't take much for the French to protest and when they do it is not just the great unwashed. S  rcasm.

[GaelicFox]

Surprised as a paddy I get a vote !

I'm a great believer in independence

I'll be voting leave

The German federal state is a failed model it failed in the 1940's and its failing now

This nation has stood on her own feet and ruled the world at one stage , she is unique and should stand tall and proud and independent from the Federal United States of European Germany

Time to take back control !

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Tate and Lyle sugar cane  , they won't have to pay massive import duties to protect sugar beet growers in the EU..

I've had a look - reckon they'll be hardly effected. Very little of that business runs through the UK it seems - major European base is in Slovakia and other production plants in the US.

[cavalier]

Leave! Otherwise your taxrate increses dramatically!

[Strokes]

Anyway, as this thread does seem to be very circular at the moment - something to Spring a bit of side debate and possibly help some of us make some profit.What UK companies would benefit in the event of a Brexit and why?

I position it this way, because this is possibly the safest* way to try and make some money on the outcome, because if a Remain vote was returned these companies conditions would remain as they were (so you shouldn't see a fall in the companies share price), but naturally their shares should gain if a Brexit vote happened.

I plan to do some homework on this myself, but initial thoughts would be someone like Sky, who have had EU competition rules go against them (all those pubs could be forced to use Sky rather than Greek Sky for example!) or a company that imports lots of raw material from outside the EU / focuses its exports to non EU countries.

*Please note, I'm not offering to underwrite any loses, you play the market at your own risk!

I think most small to medium size businesses would benefit, less red tape, less competition for bigger contracts. Only downside for them would be a less competitive job market, would give employees more power.

[Dodgy Bob]

Anyway, as this thread does seem to be very circular at the moment - something to Spring a bit of side debate and possibly help some of us make some profit.

What UK companies would benefit in the event of a Brexit and why?

I position it this way, because this is possibly the safest* way to try and make some money on the outcome, because if a Remain vote was returned these companies conditions would remain as they were (so you shouldn't see a fall in the companies share price), but naturally their shares should gain if a Brexit vote happened.

I plan to do some homework on this myself, but initial thoughts would be someone like Sky, who have had EU competition rules go against them (all those pubs could be forced to use Sky rather than Greek Sky for example!) or a company that imports lots of raw material from outside the EU / focuses its exports to non EU countries.

*Please note, I'm not offering to underwrite any loses, you play the market at your own risk!

The FTSE has been tanking for days, suggesting analysts are afraid of an exit. If it carries on, there will be some excellent value across the market, but I think it's hard to pick individual winners and losers, certainly when you're competing against professionals who do it full time. I'll be dropping a bit of extra money into a general UK index fund if the ftse falls below 5,500 before the referendum.

[ramboacdc]

ftse and the exchange rates took a whallop at 3pm when the new polls came out. lloyds bank itself lost 160m.

 

exchange rate only going to get worse up until next thursday. 

[DJ Barry Hammond]

I think most small to medium size businesses would benefit, less red tape, less competition for bigger contracts. Only downside for them would be a less competitive job market, would give employees more power.

Thanks for narrowing it down!

And if the £ falls as it is at the moment, some small and medium business will suffer as a result.

Ashted Group Plc was the only gainer in the FTSE 100 today - it released strong end of year results, taking it shares close to £10 each. It's business, the leasing of a wide range of industrial equipment seems strongest and expanding in the states, so it should be ok in a Brexit world... but I'm not sure if it would stand to positively gain. That ones a maybe.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

The FTSE has been tanking for days, suggesting analysts are afraid of an exit. If it carries on, there will be some excellent value across the market, but I think it's hard to pick individual winners and losers, certainly when you're competing against professionals who do it full time. I'll be dropping a bit of extra money into a general UK index fund if the ftse falls below 5,500 before the referendum.

I certainly agree that the FTSE will be a sea of red immediately after an exit - but there will be a few companies that stand to gain, I have no doubt.

If anyone holds any banking stocks (and sadly for many, you probably indirectly hold them in your pension pot), it'd be time to consider coming out for a bit. Chances are you could buy in at a better rate given a few months.

[johnny the fox]

I've had a look - reckon they'll be hardly effected. Very little of that business runs through the UK it seems - major European base is in Slovakia and other production plants in the US.

you are joking. they pay £3 million on every cargo ship that docks in London.. 

[johnny the fox]

Juncker is due here next week to spell it out to us what will happen if we have the audacity to leave...should clinch it to #voteleave..

[Thracian]

I certainly agree that the FTSE will be a sea of red immediately after an exit - but there will be a few companies that stand to gain, I have no doubt.

If anyone holds any banking stocks (and sadly for many, you probably indirectly hold them in your pension pot), it'd be time to consider coming out for a bit. Chances are you could buy in at a better rate given a few months.

If there's a sea of red, the opportunists will soon change the colour when they think it's bottomed out, and likely make a handsome profit as with your banks advice.    

[DJ Barry Hammond]

you are joking. they pay £3 million on every cargo ship that docks in London..

I know why you're saying this, because the company features in Brexit the movie - but their recently relocated base is in Slovakia, I read the investors report.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

If there's a sea of red, the opportunists will soon change the colour when they think it's bottomed out, and likely make a handsome profit as with your banks advice.

Well of course you can do things such as stock options where you can win when there's a price fall - but that's advanced investing for my mind / pocket, so I'm looking for something a bit more straight forward.

Juncker is due here next week to spell it out to us what will happen if we have the audacity to leave...should clinch it to #voteleave..

What if... he brings with him a change to the Freedom of Movement Principle?

[johnny the fox]

I know why you're saying this, because the company features in Brexit the movie - but their recently relocated base is in Slovakia, I read the investors report.

so they might now come back? as might dyson.. etc.. JCB might be worth looking at their gaffer wants out..

[yorkie1999]

Anyway, as this thread does seem to be very circular at the moment - something to Spring a bit of side debate and possibly help some of us make some profit.

What UK companies would benefit in the event of a Brexit and why?

I position it this way, because this is possibly the safest* way to try and make some money on the outcome, because if a Remain vote was returned these companies conditions would remain as they were (so you shouldn't see a fall in the companies share price), but naturally their shares should gain if a Brexit vote happened.

I plan to do some homework on this myself, but initial thoughts would be someone like Sky, who have had EU competition rules go against them (all those pubs could be forced to use Sky rather than Greek Sky for example!) or a company that imports lots of raw material from outside the EU / focuses its exports to non EU countries.

*Please note, I'm not offering to underwrite any loses, you play the market at your own risk!

Stick your money into companies that make union jack flags.

[johnny the fox]

Well of course you can do things such as stock options where you can win when there's a price fall - but that's advanced investing for my mind / pocket, so I'm looking for something a bit more straight forward.

What if... he brings with him a change to the Freedom of Movement Principle?

A day late and a dollar short...he might bring 3 magic beans as well.... do you think a man who has described anybody who leaves as "deserters" is really going to change?   Clause 4 was binned by labour because it was past its sell by date... free movement was also of its time when the the Eu could not envisage the mass  and easy movement of peoples across the continent... it has to and will be dropped whether we stay in or not.