Are we over-reacting to (possibly) non PC remarks?

[RedSoxUK]

It's certainly a very serious and fast-growing problem.

 

Seinfeld and other comedians have said they won't play colleges anymore, because everyone's just itching to be offended by something.

 

There's a growing authoritarian trend on the left that's getting out of control now. It's getting so bad that I think it will probably come to a head sometime soon and we'll get a swing in the opposite direction. I hope so, anyway. These people see those who most of us consider goody-two-shoes liberals as right wing.

 

I heard a story the other day about the advice that people give to women about protecting themselves from rape. Apparently, women are a lot more likely to avoid being raped if they fight back. Someone tweeted this, I think, and the general response they got was telling them that they shouldn't let this be known, because it would make the women who had been raped and not fought back feel bad. So, essentially, they were saying that it's better for women to get raped than it is to hurt people's feelings.

 

In many ways, the current authoritarian left is very much like a religion. They want zero opposition to their ideals, and people's feelings must be treated like the most precious thing in the world.

 

It's where this "outrage culture" is coming from. It's why the man who landed a probe on a comet was forced into making a tearful apology on what should have been the greatest day of his life, all because of a bowling shirt. It's why Prof. Tim Hunt lost his job over a joke.

 

If you would like to be angry, look up "intersectionality" / "the progressive stack". They think it's fine to demonise whites, men, straight people, able-bodied people and anyone who hasn't had a sex change! If you're a straight white man, then you're fair game. As if that wasn't bad enough, they're teaching this utter shite to small impressionable children.

 

They are trying to redefine the words "sexism" and "racism" so that women and non-whites can be immune from bigotry. They call women being sexist as "reverse-sexism", and non-whites being racist as "reverse-racism", and then go as far as to say that these things cannot exist, as these people are less privileged than those they are discriminating against.

 

They use accusations of racism, sexism, misogyny, transphobia, etc. as weapons against people to silence them, and sometimes destroy lives. There was a man who commited suicide recently after falsely being accused of racism. He was so upset because he was anything but.

 

They call themselves "progressives", but I can't see how anyone could describe censorship, bullying, false accusations of serious prejudism or just authoritarianism in general as "progress".

 

It stinks, and I can't wait for it be over with.

 

Very well put 

[The Horse's Mouth]

I don't know why foreigners are singled out in this regard, literally every league now is full of diving. Pawning it off on different cultures of football is just lazy.

[Raw Dykes]

I think this video sums the problem up nicely:

 

[tom27111]

I suppose the problem we have is not knowing where the line is drawn. In essence, this case is little different to the 'black players are lazy' comment that cost Ron Atkinson his job.

He said something rather more offensive than that. He called Marcel Desailly a "lazy n*****".

That's just outrageous. Most things, like what is mentioned in the original post, aren't.

[Harry - LCFC]

I think this video sums the problem up nicely:

 

 

I love this segment, especially since I know it must've really irritated any members of the anti-fun brigade who happened to watch.

 

Like you, I find the moral posturing from progressives to be a sickly thing to watch. I'm not at all convinced they sincerely mean it when they claim that playful jokes about other culture, gender and sexuality are "furthering the oppression of minorities", I think it's faux-outrage to show off how wonderfully 'tolerant' they are and/or to try to paint western society as inhospitable to these groups.

 

I don't have a negative view on all forms of political correctness but in general I do, especially when it comes to humour.

[Dan]

Fantastic posts from Raw Dykes as well. Glad to reach such sense spoken on the matter.

[Buce]

He said something rather more offensive than that. He called Marcel Desailly a "lazy n*****".

That's just outrageous. Most things, like what is mentioned in the original post, aren't.

Did he?

Sorry, I obviously remembered incorrectly.

[Finnegan]

In my experience, it's not about left wing and right wing, it's not about pc and non pc, it's just about twats.

Twats. Plain and simple.

Half the twats want to be able to be casually prejudice and dismiss it as bants and the other half just want to be offended by everything to feel morally superior. Half the twats want to call everyone racist, sexist, homophobic and everything else and the other half want to shout "ITS PC GONE MAD OMYGOD" at every, single, mother, ****ing, God, damn opportunity.

Both sets of twats use the other set of twats to claim that EVERYONE ELSE except themselves (because they're so god damn intellectually enlightened) thinks like the other half.

All above twats need to be stuck on an empty island together and ****ing bombed, it's getting beyond boring now.

I'm pretty confident 99% of the people I know it my day to day life are just comfortably, moderately in the middle somewhere. We've all got our slight prejudices but most of us know that baa baa black sheep isn't offensive and that telling an Asian woman to "suck it, slit eye" isn't just #ladsbeinglads.

PS: "THE AUTHORITARIAN LEFT!" (dum dum duuuuurrrrr!!) Jesus ****ing christ. I half expect a bunch of bespectacled, cardigan wearing Observer readers to come flying through the door together. "Noooobody expects the authoritarian left!"

[Guest MattP]

It's certainly a very serious and fast-growing problem.

 

Seinfeld and other comedians have said they won't play colleges anymore, because everyone's just itching to be offended by something.

 

There's a growing authoritarian trend on the left that's getting out of control now. It's getting so bad that I think it will probably come to a head sometime soon and we'll get a swing in the opposite direction. I hope so, anyway. These people see those who most of us consider goody-two-shoes liberals as right wing.

 

I heard a story the other day about the advice that people give to women about protecting themselves from rape. Apparently, women are a lot more likely to avoid being raped if they fight back. Someone tweeted this, I think, and the general response they got was telling them that they shouldn't let this be known, because it would make the women who had been raped and not fought back feel bad. So, essentially, they were saying that it's better for women to get raped than it is to hurt people's feelings.

 

In many ways, the current authoritarian left is very much like a religion. They want zero opposition to their ideals, and people's feelings must be treated like the most precious thing in the world.

 

It's where this "outrage culture" is coming from. It's why the man who landed a probe on a comet was forced into making a tearful apology on what should have been the greatest day of his life, all because of a bowling shirt. It's why Prof. Tim Hunt lost his job over a joke.

 

If you would like to be angry, look up "intersectionality" / "the progressive stack". They think it's fine to demonise whites, men, straight people, able-bodied people and anyone who hasn't had a sex change! If you're a straight white man, then you're fair game. As if that wasn't bad enough, they're teaching this utter shite to small impressionable children.

 

They are trying to redefine the words "sexism" and "racism" so that women and non-whites can be immune from bigotry. They call women being sexist as "reverse-sexism", and non-whites being racist as "reverse-racism", and then go as far as to say that these things cannot exist, as these people are less privileged than those they are discriminating against.

 

They use accusations of racism, sexism, misogyny, transphobia, etc. as weapons against people to silence them, and sometimes destroy lives. There was a man who commited suicide recently after falsely being accused of racism. He was so upset because he was anything but.

 

They call themselves "progressives", but I can't see how anyone could describe censorship, bullying, false accusations of serious prejudism or just authoritarianism in general as "progress".

 

It stinks, and I can't wait for it be over with.

 

Great post, said everything I wanted too but far more eloquently.

 

I agree as well that for the first time attitudes do seem to be turning against this, people do now seem to be able to express opinions that would have encouraged all sorts of offence to be taken and all sorts of political opinions to be repressed. Too many modern British 'liberals' will defend to the death your right to agree with him. Disagree, and he will call the police or take to Twitter to try and hound you out of your job.

 

The election has probably helped as it's made them realise that the far left segment of society who love to enforce this liberal bigotry on the rest of us is actually a very tiny fraction of people nowhere near as big as the noise it makes.

[Finnegan]

Great post, said everything I wanted too but far more eloquently.

I agree as well that for the first time attitudes do seem to be turning against this, people do now seem to be able to express opinions that would have encouraged all sorts of offence to be taken and all sorts of political opinions to be repressed. Too many modern British 'liberals' will defend to the death your right to agree with him. Disagree, and he will call the police or take to Twitter to try and hound you out of your job.

The election has probably helped as it's made them realise that the far left segment of society who love to enforce this liberal bigotry on the rest of us is actually a very tiny fraction of people nowhere near as big as the noise it makes.

**** me.

This is bordering on being as melodramatic as the shit ozleicester is posting about the west's attitude to gay people being as bad as IS.

THE FAR LEFT LIBERAL BIGOTRY!

Come oooon.

[Guest MattP]

**** me.

This is bordering on being as melodramatic as the shit ozleicester is posting about the west's attitude to gay people being as bad as IS.

THE FAR LEFT LIBERAL BIGOTRY!

Come oooon.

 

You just wouldn't understand Finners, it's not your fault but you would never have expressed an opinion like me or Raw Dykes have that offends the sort of people we are talking about to such an extent they'll go to these lengths to try and silence you.

 

Although I get the feeling by your use of capitals and hyperbole here you actually know there is more than some truth to it.

Just watch ten minutes of Gerald Kaufmann or Diane Abbott and you'll see people mean.

[Finnegan]

Sorry, man, I forget how hard it must be to be an edgy, alternative white guy in this airy scary world.

That master race of Abbots and that-gay-ginger-blokes monitoring your life, beating you down every time you quote Jim Davidson, busting in to your Roy Chubby Brown gigs and rounding up the racists for termination.

I live such a privileged life being a soft, wishy, washy socialist.

These poor, discriminated ahainat

[Guest MattP]

Sorry, man, I forget how hard it must be to be an edgy, alternative white guy in this airy scary world.

That master race of Abbots and that-gay-ginger-blokes monitoring your life, beating you down every time you quote Jim Davidson, busting in to your Roy Chubby Brown gigs and rounding up the racists for termination.

I live such a privileged life being a soft, wishy, washy socialist.

These poor, discriminated ahainat

 

Absolutely amazing, you follow up the allegation that this actually isn't happening by then doing it yourself

[Finnegan]

Absolutely amazing, you follow up the allegation that this actually isn't happening by then doing it yourself

See this is exactly the issue.

You think a bit of sarcasm on the internet is some sort of violation of your basic rights. Am I bullying you, Matt, is that it?

Do you need a hug?

Note: no idea what happened to that post. I was halfway through writing it, hence ending on some weird typo. Suffice to say the rest of it was just more sarcastic baiting and you're not missing much. You get the point. Hindsight, it's probably best I didn't finish it, I'd hate for you to have gone away and killed yourself due to the enormous social pressure I'm putting on you.

[Buce]

He said something rather more offensive than that. He called Marcel Desailly a "lazy n*****".

That's just outrageous. Most things, like what is mentioned in the original post, aren't.

Ok, so having thought about this, it's clearly the terminology used that's offensive, so in that regard it was a poor example.

Suppose he had said what I origionally poeted? If he'd said something along the lines of, "black players are typically lazy"; would that have been acceptable to you?

The point I'm trying to make (probably not very well) is that there are no hard and fast rules about racism: it's accepted you can't call someone a n****r. Does that mean you can't apply a stereotype to black players? Because if it does, surely that means you can't apply a stereotype to 'foreigners'? And, as in cases like this, that is clearly over-sensitive nonsense.

[Finnegan]

Again, I'm fairly certain that the majority of people in day to day life are aware that calling "all black people" any negative, stereotypical trait would be pretty offensive.

I don't know a single person that would need it explaining to them that "all black people" aren't lazy.

[Simi]

As is now happening in this thread now, everyone these days just wants to label someone as something to define them.

 

"Oh, well I'm sure the lefties won't like this one" 

 

"This will piss of those right wing twats"

 

Why must everything be labelled and pitted against each other in an argument? Who really gives a shit? Just be yourself and if you're offended by something, either try and make a positive change about it through the right channels or move on and deal with it. The internet is the best and worst thing about modern life. It's a stage for some amazing acts but it also gives daylight to so many clowns that should remain silent.

 

What gets me is I just don't get how all of these people get along in life without being miserable. I'm lucky enough to have a group of friends who I consider to be easy going and up for a laugh. Yes we make jokes that you would consider close the bone, yes we disagree on politics and culture but it isn't a big deal. It's just part of life. 

 

The problem is everyone is pitted against each other and it creates divides amongst people that other than one or two subjects are like minded - by then the damage is done.

[Buce]

Again, I'm fairly certain that the majority of people in day to day life are aware that calling "all black people" any negative, stereotypical trait would be pretty offensive.

I don't know a single person that would need it explaining to them that "all black people" aren't lazy.

Yeah, I agree with you, but how is it different if you substitute the word 'foreigner' for 'black'?

I'm not trying to be provocative, I'm just pointing out the inconsistancy.

[Finnegan]

It isn't different but, again, I don't think I know many people that need to be told that. Some people are thick ****s, most of us don't need to be told to be decent human beings.

[Guest MattP]

See this is exactly the issue.

You think a bit of sarcasm on the internet is some sort of violation of your basic rights. Am I bullying you, Matt, is that it?

Do you need a hug?

Note: no idea what happened to that post. I was halfway through writing it, hence ending on some weird typo. Suffice to say the rest of it was just more sarcastic baiting and you're not missing much. You get the point. Hindsight, it's probably best I didn't finish it, I'd hate for you to have gone away and killed yourself due to the enormous social pressure I'm putting on you.

 

No I don't think you are bullying anyone Finners, there is a difference between deliberately misinterpreting someone (i.e bizarre references to Jim Davidson to argue a point) and bullying.

 

I'll have a hug next time you see me though, I love human contact, don't worry I'm not going to kill myself either, it's not even 10 o' clock so I've not even read my Daily Mail yet.

[Finnegan]

You mentioned spotting (or thinking you'd spotted) me at the stadium once before, you have my absolute and complete permission to come and man hug me out of nowhere next time. You'll probably confuse the **** out of me old man but go for it.

#nohomo

[Captain...]

There are 2 sides to this, one is that people have forgotten what true oppression is and why we have anti-racism, anti-sexism any anti discrimination laws. When you look back in to the not so distant past at how blacks, Asians, women, Irish, gays etc have been treated it was horrendous. I mean truly disgusting, thankfully now in the UK and most of the developed world it is not the case any more. Is it completely equal? probably not, but a massive improvement on what it was 20 years ago. The problem is the overreaction to any negative comment that may highlight someone's race/gender/sexuality is what stops it being equal, nonsense like wanting to bring the Rooney rule in, that is not equality, the fear of being branded a racist when investigating a serious crime is even more messed up.

 

I liked the Bill Mahler video, I am a big fan of comedy particularly edgy comedy that really pushed the boundaries of what you can and can't say, and I am of the view that you can say anything, as long as it is funny. At the moment my favourite show is the Last Leg, the segments they have taking the piss out of Muslims (the "G"-hadi Spot) and Westminster Paedos are brilliant, but it has to be funny otherwise you are just being a dick and if you are a dick you should be called out on it. 

 

That is the other side, you get the feeling some people take up the outrage against the outrage stance because they believe they should be able to say anything even if it is an intolerant view point. They want to say what they want because they have entrenched intolerant views and these should be challenged. When you see comedians holding a mirror to society and its values using racism and misogyny to make the joke and their point, it is different to Katie Hopkins spouting vile crap to make money out of the suffering of others. Then blaming the PC brigade for trying to censor her and then there are true racists who stir up bigotry and hate and fear and spread it around to push their own twisted agenda.

 

We need the outrage to highlight the bigotry, but we need the outrage against the outrage to stop it going to far, making a comment on race is not racism, but there is still true racism out there and it must not be allowed into the mainstream as an overreaction to an overreaction to an innocuous comment made by a footballer using commonly held stereotypes of European footballers.

[Rincewind]

How PC something is depends on who is on  the  receiving  e nd. By that I mean that  the person saying'PC gone mad' is not usually the target. What was  said in the OP 'Typical  foreigner' is stereotyping in the same way as some say all benefit  claimants are scroungers and shirkers when any intellegent person knows this not to be true. Typical foreigner, typical northerner typical Tory typical Labour typical Leicester fan. Which of these is likely to offend you  more?

I think the hype in the media regarding PC is OTT.  I see  nothing  wrong with a one off  statement but the problem is you are going to have people agreeing as they do with the Daily **** and  Sun headlines.

If we did not know about what was said this thread would not be here.

 

Good post Captain. I saw a joke  on FB but did  not post it here because some might reply 'racist' but I believe it was highlighting racism. From memory it goes something like this.

 

I was walking in town and saw a Muslim bookshop. Curious I went inside  as I was browsing the prioriter said 'can I help?' I said yes do you have 'The problem with Mexican and Hyspanic people entering the USA illegally by Donald Trump.'. The owner sai' F^^k off and don't come back' I said 'Yes thats the one'

I expect this has something to do with something he said and his views. It seems to be more acceptable to make non PC statements over there and the joke was showing what a p^^^k he is.

[Guest MattP]

We nearly managed to get a political thread in GC to the third page without somebody mentioning scroungers or benefit claimants, nearly.

[Samilktray]

Typical benefits claimers