Are we over-reacting to (possibly) non PC remarks?

[norwichfox]

Just seen this on BBC site:

 

 St Johnstone defender Brad McKay has been charged with making an "offensive comment" about Hearts striker Juanma.
The 22-year-old was widely quoted describing the Spaniard as "a typical foreigner" who "gets touched and goes down" after a 4-3 loss at Tynecastle earlier this month.
And the Scottish FA has now issued a notice of complaint.

McKay has until Monday to respond to the complaint, with a principal hearing scheduled for 3 September.

 

link to article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33964249

 

To me this is such an OTT reaction, how long before there will be police at every ground with riot shields just in-case a player makes an (questionably Politically Incorrect remark. Good job the tw@'s don't sit in the stands and listen to what's being said.

 

Is the world going mad or is it just that an old git like me can't catch up with current ways of thinking. Perhaps my judgement is getting clouded by the endless stream of phone calls to my mobiles and land line asking if I've had an accident, have taken out PPI, an industrial injury, and the latest  one....has your hearing been damaged at work.

 

 

 

[BoneDog]

Overreaction as usual.

[Mark_w]

Good, the more often that sort of nonsense is challenged the better. Probably worth waiting to find out what sort of punishment it receives before you scream PC gone mad.

[Mike the Metal Ed]

Just seen this on BBC site:

 

 St Johnstone defender Brad McKay has been charged with making an "offensive comment" about Hearts striker Juanma.

The 22-year-old was widely quoted describing the Spaniard as "a typical foreigner" who "gets touched and goes down" after a 4-3 loss at Tynecastle earlier this month.

And the Scottish FA has now issued a notice of complaint.

McKay has until Monday to respond to the complaint, with a principal hearing scheduled for 3 September.

 

link to article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33964249

 

To me this is such an OTT reaction, how long before there will be police at every ground with riot shields just in-case a player makes an (questionably Politically Incorrect remark. Good job the tw@'s don't sit in the stands and listen to what's being said.

 

Is the world going mad or is it just that an old git like me can't catch up with current ways of thinking. Perhaps my judgement is getting clouded by the endless stream of phone calls to my mobiles and land line asking if I've had an accident, have taken out PPI, an industrial injury, and the latest  one....has your hearing been damaged at work.

 

Yes, we are overreacting.

[ScouseFox]

pc gone mad 

[Fox92]

Yes, it is a overreaction. 

[Alf Bentley]

pc gone mad 

 

 

Mine's working OK. I'd get onto Microsoft, mate.

[Raw Dykes]

It's certainly a very serious and fast-growing problem.

 

Seinfeld and other comedians have said they won't play colleges anymore, because everyone's just itching to be offended by something.

 

There's a growing authoritarian trend on the left that's getting out of control now. It's getting so bad that I think it will probably come to a head sometime soon and we'll get a swing in the opposite direction. I hope so, anyway. These people see those who most of us consider goody-two-shoes liberals as right wing.

 

I heard a story the other day about the advice that people give to women about protecting themselves from rape. Apparently, women are a lot more likely to avoid being raped if they fight back. Someone tweeted this, I think, and the general response they got was telling them that they shouldn't let this be known, because it would make the women who had been raped and not fought back feel bad. So, essentially, they were saying that it's better for women to get raped than it is to hurt people's feelings.

 

In many ways, the current authoritarian left is very much like a religion. They want zero opposition to their ideals, and people's feelings must be treated like the most precious thing in the world.

 

It's where this "outrage culture" is coming from. It's why the man who landed a probe on a comet was forced into making a tearful apology on what should have been the greatest day of his life, all because of a bowling shirt. It's why Prof. Tim Hunt lost his job over a joke.

 

If you would like to be angry, look up "intersectionality" / "the progressive stack". They think it's fine to demonise whites, men, straight people, able-bodied people and anyone who hasn't had a sex change! If you're a straight white man, then you're fair game. As if that wasn't bad enough, they're teaching this utter shite to small impressionable children.

 

They are trying to redefine the words "sexism" and "racism" so that women and non-whites can be immune from bigotry. They call women being sexist as "reverse-sexism", and non-whites being racist as "reverse-racism", and then go as far as to say that these things cannot exist, as these people are less privileged than those they are discriminating against.

 

They use accusations of racism, sexism, misogyny, transphobia, etc. as weapons against people to silence them, and sometimes destroy lives. There was a man who commited suicide recently after falsely being accused of racism. He was so upset because he was anything but.

 

They call themselves "progressives", but I can't see how anyone could describe censorship, bullying, false accusations of serious prejudism or just authoritarianism in general as "progress".

 

It stinks, and I can't wait for it be over with.

[Vacamion]

I'd like to live in a society where you can criticise the way someone speaks (and engage with what they are saying) without forbidding them to say it or making them fearful of expressing an opinion.

Voltaire and all that...

[Stadt]

Yeah it is an overreaction.

There is a left wing censorship thing going on but then there's usually an overreaction from right wing people saying "you can't call anyone anything now"

[norwichfox]

 

They call themselves "progressives", but I can't see how anyone could describe censorship, bullying, false accusations of serious prejudism or just authoritarianism in general as "progress".

 

It stinks, and I can't wait for it be over with.

Sadly, for me anyway, I'll be dead and buried before it'll be over with, but glad to see that it's not just me that thinks this way. Some lines in the sand are needed to differentiate between what's acceptable, and what's unacceptable, with a massive space for a grey area between the lines.

[bovril]

These days, people are freer to express their opinions without fear of censorship than at any other time in human history. Nearly every day I read or hear sexist, racist, misogynistic or xenophobic guff being spouted by various people. Often it's followed by an ironic "but you can't say that anymore", the speaker obviously oblivious to the fact they just have said it without fear of reprisals.

'Political correctness' was invented by the right as a stick to beat the left with. In the past we just had 'politeness'.

[Harry - LCFC]

I think I agree, norwichfox. It does seem a bit of an overreaction to issue a punishment for a comment that will only annoy rather than upset.There's something a bit authoritarian about attempting to police trivial remarks like that one. Just tell the bloke you don't like what he said and be done with it.

 

 

'Political correctness' was invented by the right as a stick to beat the left with. In the past we just had 'politeness'.

 

You've just been given an example of it here so that's wrong. I'm not that old but it does seem as if political correctness has got a little sillier recently.

[Danno]

These days, people are freer to express their opinions without fear of censorship than at any other time in human history. Nearly every day I read or hear sexist, racist, misogynistic or xenophobic guff being spouted by various people. Often it's followed by an ironic "but you can't say that anymore", the speaker obviously oblivious to the fact they just have said it without fear of reprisals.

'Political correctness' was invented by the right as a stick to beat the left with. In the past we just had 'politeness'.

You normally see that on stuff like Britain First where people talk about killing/deporting all Muslims and then think it's now illegal to fly the Union Jack

[Buce]

I suppose the problem we have is not knowing where the line is drawn. In essence, this case is little different to the 'black players are lazy' comment that cost Ron Atkinson his job.

[Frank to be]

I don't see a problem with giving society a bit of a push to help it remove ignorance from within itself. It wasn't long ago when speaking out against racism and homophobia was considered "PC", we've moved on from those days to some degree thanks to proactive measures, not by sitting back and saying "chill out, it's just joke". Usually the people complaining about "PC" just want to be able to express their nasty ignorance without being exposed. The more it does get exposed the better.

[Dan]

Without a doubt, but that's what you get when you make a cushion for people to take the moral highground. It's almost like claiming you're offended is some trump card over absolutely everything else. That's why you hear stupid things like this get made into more than they should be. The sooner people collectively call it all for the bullshit that it is, the better.

[norwichfox]

I would say the catalyst for this political correctness reaching nonsensical levels would be when Thatcher lifted the ban on Solicitors advertising or touting. U.S.A. style ambulance chasers started to appear, and not content with the new line of business it extended to so many other things like industrial injuries, PPI in fact anything that can get a legal professional a paid day in court. It's no co-incidence that a number of top politicians are barristers and as such will be only too willing to add fuel to this smouldering scourge of society.

 

Please make it stop.

[Raw Dykes]

Sadly, for me anyway, I'll be dead and buried before it'll be over with, but glad to see that it's not just me that thinks this way. Some lines in the sand are needed to differentiate between what's acceptable, and what's unacceptable, with a massive space for a grey area between the lines.

 

I wouldn't be so sure.

 

There are definitely some encouraging signs of a pushback against this nonsense.

 

It's been brewing for a long time, but it's finally becoming a problem that's in the public eye's peripheral vision.

 

I don't know if anyone's heard of Gamergate, but I'll bet the few people who have think it's a hate group intent on keeping women out of the tech industry.

 

Guess what? If you think that, you have been duped.

 

These "progressives" have been going around infiltrating and co-opting all over the entertainment industry in order to push their far-left authoritarian agenda. Hollywood, literature, television, comics, you name it. They all bent over and took it.

 

They tried to get their foot in the door of gaming, and it's blowing up in their faces. They finally picked on someone who was going to fight back. It started this time last year when it all came out that game developers were sleeping with gaming journalists in order to get favourable reviews and coverage. Gamers started talking about it online, and were shut down. Even the most notoriously anti-censorship forums were not allowing the subject to be spoken about. Alarm bells rang, obviously. People started digging into it, and soon discovered that gaming journalism was rotten to the core.

 

The reason Gamergate has been painted as a sexist hate group is because they have a problem with the media. Try to pick a PR fight with journalists and this is what happens.

 

Anyway, gamers are still very unwilling to trust the people who are meant to inform them, and they have also set a precedent as to how to deal with these people.

 

I mentioned Seinfeld earlier, as well. I think it's a problem that can no longer be ignored when such high profile people point it out. It's finally becoming mainstream, and something that Joe public will soon become wary of.

 

The state of colleges and universities today, in the States, at least, is very worrying indeed. Just look up "trigger warnings" and "safe spaces". You will not believe what's happening. False rape accusations are also becoming an epidemic there. Some high profile cases include The Rolling Stone running with a ludicrous story without checking it recently, and a girl at uni carried a mattress around the campus everywhere she went as an art project about her supposed attack - you can read the friendly messages she sent to him shortly after it was meant to have taken place - she had obviously falsely accused a young man of raping her and made his life hell on Earth with the help of the university itself.

 

To sum up, they are being found out at last, and I have hope that more people will stand up to them.

[Dan]

Good, the more often that sort of nonsense is challenged the better. Probably worth waiting to find out what sort of punishment it receives before you scream PC gone mad.

 

Even though it's true? You tell an Italian or Spaniard that they dive and they don't even take offence. They just accept it as a part of their game.

 

If he gets in any kind of trouble for it then it's an absolute joke.

[leicsmac]

I wouldn't be so sure.

There are definitely some encouraging signs of a pushback against this nonsense.

It's been brewing for a long time, but it's finally becoming a problem that's in the public eye's peripheral vision.

I don't know if anyone's heard of Gamergate, but I'll bet the few people who have think it's a hate group intent on keeping women out of the tech industry.

Guess what? If you think that, you have been duped.

These "progressives" have been going around infiltrating and co-opting all over the entertainment industry in order to push their far-left authoritarian agenda. Hollywood, literature, television, comics, you name it. They all bent over and took it.

They tried to get their foot in the door of gaming, and it's blowing up in their faces. They finally picked on someone who was going to fight back. It started this time last year when it all came out that game developers were sleeping with gaming journalists in order to get favourable reviews and coverage. Gamers started talking about it online, and were shut down. Even the most notoriously anti-censorship forums were not allowing the subject to be spoken about. Alarm bells rang, obviously. People started digging into it, and soon discovered that gaming journalism was rotten to the core.

The reason Gamergate has been painted as a sexist hate group is because they have a problem with the media. Try to pick a PR fight with journalists and this is what happens.

Anyway, gamers are still very unwilling to trust the people who are meant to inform them, and they have also set a precedent as to how to deal with these people.

I mentioned Seinfeld earlier, as well. I think it's a problem that can no longer be ignored when such high profile people point it out. It's finally becoming mainstream, and something that Joe public will soon become wary of.

The state of colleges and universities today, in the States, at least, is very worrying indeed. Just look up "trigger warnings" and "safe spaces". You will not believe what's happening. False rape accusations are also becoming an epidemic there. Some high profile cases include The Rolling Stone running with a ludicrous story without checking it recently, and a girl at uni carried a mattress around the campus everywhere she went as an art project about her supposed attack - you can read the friendly messages she sent to him shortly after it was meant to have taken place - she had obviously falsely accused a young man of raping her and made his life hell on Earth with the help of the university itself.

To sum up, they are being found out at last, and I have hope that more people will stand up to them.

You speak eloquently, and I agree with you regarding your stance on free speech...But I totally disagree with you about GamerGate, and I have looked at it pretty closely. I wrote the following not too long after it broke.

"I'm sorry guys (and it is guys), but you can dress up the attacks on Anita Sarkesian and Zoe Quinn recently with whatever justification about it being regarding the factual part of what they say rather than their gender as you like.

The fact is that even if both Sarkesian and Quinn had been lying through their teeth with every word they say or write in the public sphere (which isn't the case, BTW) that STILL wouldn't justify the level of directly misogynistic abuse they have received from many different areas of the gaming community. And, right now, the bigoted voice is the loudest. People in the wider world aren't hearing about the minutae of the affair, including possibly legitimate concerns about ethics in having journalism, snake pit that it is. They're hearing 'direct rape threat'. They're hearing 'forced out of her home by those threats'. Don't care about that? Perhaps you should. The voices with legitimate concerns are not being heard.

Trying to pass it off as a minority engaging in that abuse doesn't wash either. The wider world already generalises you (us), and the abuse is all they hear. Saying "it's not me" didn't (and doesn't) work for members of religions, didn't work for other idelogical groups, so why should it work for you? By disavowing, guess what? You still enable.

The gamer community is vibrant and engaging. But it has a dark heart. Gamergate has exposed that for all to see in it's disgusting glory. And though you may not like the idea, it's up to the decent members of the community - no one else - to clean it up. To say, decisively, "not in my name". To make a stand against those who use abuse because they don't want 'others' in 'their club', and substitute that abuse for rational debate. To tell the fellow members of their community that engage in this kind of misogynyistic crap to knock it on the head.

Or you can just do nothing, and make sure that the misogynist, intolerant voice is the loudest, remain isolationist, disinclusionist "special snowflakes", and so (rightly or wrongly) confirm the stereotype that society has of you and the community which makes me ashamed to call myself a gamer.

Your responsibility. Your choice."

Perhaps that's a bit strong in hindsight, but I think it applies. I saw what was said across a variety of social media in the aftermath. It was not pretty.

[norwichfox]

I'm not up to speed with gamergate....in fact this post is the first time I've heard the term,started looking around and feelings certainly run high on both sides. I stumbled on

 this whilst looking...

 

[leicsmac]

I'm not up to speed with gamergate....in fact this post is the first time I've heard the term,started looking around and feelings certainly run high on both sides. I stumbled on

this whilst looking...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=28&v=rr2JPjhtGZA

Too bloody right. On the one hand you have the basement dwelling fedora wearing misogynists who think gaming is their playground and go out of their way to abuse women verbally whenever they find then while gaming, and in the other side you have the Tumblr reading granola eating social justice warriors who think that every single male gamer is one of the above. Of course, both are wrong.

Worse still, it's likely there's a third party of people who just like to troll who are playing both sides.

It's a shame really that a possibly legitimate concern is getting lost amongst all the hysteria, but it's happening and a unfortunately the problem is one that the gaming community needs to deal with itself, rather than pretending it doesn't exist.

[Raw Dykes]

You speak eloquently, and I agree with you regarding your stance on free speech...But I totally disagree with you about GamerGate, and I have looked at it pretty closely. I wrote the following not too long after it broke.

"I'm sorry guys (and it is guys), but you can dress up the attacks on Anita Sarkesian and Zoe Quinn recently with whatever justification about it being regarding the factual part of what they say rather than their gender as you like.

The fact is that even if both Sarkesian and Quinn had been lying through their teeth with every word they say or write in the public sphere (which isn't the case, BTW) that STILL wouldn't justify the level of directly misogynistic abuse they have received from many different areas of the gaming community. And, right now, the bigoted voice is the loudest. People in the wider world aren't hearing about the minutae of the affair, including possibly legitimate concerns about ethics in having journalism, snake pit that it is. They're hearing 'direct rape threat'. They're hearing 'forced out of her home by those threats'. Don't care about that? Perhaps you should. The voices with legitimate concerns are not being heard.

Trying to pass it off as a minority engaging in that abuse doesn't wash either. The wider world already generalises you (us), and the abuse is all they hear. Saying "it's not me" didn't (and doesn't) work for members of religions, didn't work for other idelogical groups, so why should it work for you? By disavowing, guess what? You still enable.

The gamer community is vibrant and engaging. But it has a dark heart. Gamergate has exposed that for all to see in it's disgusting glory. And though you may not like the idea, it's up to the decent members of the community - no one else - to clean it up. To say, decisively, "not in my name". To make a stand against those who use abuse because they don't want 'others' in 'their club', and substitute that abuse for rational debate. To tell the fellow members of their community that engage in this kind of misogynyistic crap to knock it on the head.

Or you can just do nothing, and make sure that the misogynist, intolerant voice is the loudest, remain isolationist, disinclusionist "special snowflakes", and so (rightly or wrongly) confirm the stereotype that society has of you and the community which makes me ashamed to call myself a gamer.

Your responsibility. Your choice."

Perhaps that's a bit strong in hindsight, but I think it applies. I saw what was said across a variety of social media in the aftermath. It was not pretty.

 

I've been following GamerGate very closely for quite a while, and this all seems pretty alien to me.

 

I'm not going to deny that Sarkeesian and Quinn have received a lot of disgusting abuse, but I would ask how much this has to do with GamerGate, and also how much of it they brought upon themselves. They both seem to understand that getting a dog to bite them gives them licence to have it put down.

 

When you mentioned women being forced out of their homes, I can only hope that you were not referencing Quinn or Brianna Wu. Wu was filmed in her home when she claimed to be on the run, and Quinn was using a pre-planned trip to Europe to paint herself as a victim.

 

Sarkeesian is a scammer (caught lying about being a gamer, was part of a shady get-rich-quick-type scheme, raised an obscene amount of crowdfunding money only to do next to none of what she said she would), Quinn is sinister (is a serial rapist by her own definition, had a gamejam helping female devs shut down by doxxing the radical feminist group it was set up by, proceeded to ask for donations for own gamejam with no date or location with the PayPal account being her own personal one, apparently pretended to be doxxed by a forum for clinically depressed losers, was an SA goon who took part in Helldump - more doxxing, allegedly claimed to have commited murder), Wu is plain batshit insane (wasted $200k given to her by her incredibly wealthy parents to start an animation company and still tells people to "check their privilege", had a restraining order - alleged by the editor of the Daily Mississippian).

 

People shouldn't be paying them any attention at all. Instead, they have been portrayed by the media as innocent little damsels in distress, because that makes a better story than the truth.

 

They know that playing the victim brings in serious sympathy dollars. Why wouldn't they act like their lives have been ruined by nasty gamers?

 

I've no doubt that there are plenty of fat, neckbeard, MRA misogynists who associate with the GamerGate hashtag, but the picture I have of GamerGate couldn't be further from that lazy stereotype image. I see it as a revolt from a Colours-of-Benetton-diverse group of consumers who have been treated like subhuman scum by the journalists they are supposed to have trust in.

 

I will admit that I missed the initial furore this time last year, which may well have coloured my opinion differently. However, I think you might have a different view if you have a look at the most followed people championing the hashtag on twitter currently.

[Raw Dykes]

GamerGate finally had its voice heard on Saturday.

 

Warning! The audio is messed up for the first three minutes of this video! Turn the volume down!

 

 

A large chunk of the following video is silent. Oh, so grimly predictably, the event was disrupted by bomb threats.