Migrants - What's the answer?

[Strokes]

On a serious note though, poor conditions is even more of a reason to reward those who have waited patiently. Rather than those hellbent on causing chaos until they get what they want.

[bovril]

On a serious note though, poor conditions is even more of a reason to reward those who have waited patiently. Rather than those hellbent on causing chaos until they get what they want.

 

So English. "You may be feeling from the most blood-thirsty group of religious fanatics in history but you can still bloody well queue politely, god damnit!"

[Strokes]

So English. "You may be feeling from the most blood-thirsty group of religious fanatics in history but you can still bloody well queue politely, god damnit!"

No mate, smash my door in and I'll be pretty mad, knock politely and I'll make you a cuppa. It's an international code of conduct as far as I'm aware. Isis aren't chasing them through Croatia are they?

[Claridge]

On a serious note though, poor conditions is even more of a reason to reward those who have waited patiently. Rather than those hellbent on causing chaos until they get what they want.

Ryanair boarding?

[MooseBreath]

Have you seen the camps in Lebanon?

There was a news programme here in France last night and I just couldn't believe the camps they go for as far as you can see. rationed water from standing taps, no electricity. It is a shame to the rest of the world that a country like Lebanon is having to deal with so many migrants/refugees and a shame on us that the conditions are so bad there.

It's not really a shame on us though is it. We're not responsible for preparing the world for potential refugee crises.

[Buce]

It's not really a shame on us though is it. We're not responsible for preparing the world for potential refugee crises.

I think there's a good arguement to say otherwise, Moose. Although we are not directly responsible for the mess in Syria, we (and by 'we' I imean the 'West') certainly fanned the flames by tacitly ignoring the Saudi interference there.

And IS built up it's power base first in Iraq, and that is a direct result of Blair's illegal war.

[MooseBreath]

I think there's a good arguement to say otherwise, Moose. Although we are not directly responsible for the mess in Syria, we (and by 'we' I imean the 'West') certainly fanned the flames by tacitly ignoring the Saudi interference there.

And IS built up it's power base first in Iraq, and that is a direct result of Blair's illegal war.

Be that as it may, FIF seemed to imply that we are responsible for the standard of the refugee camps. In practical terms, I don't think it's reasonable to expect the West to have prepared good quality refugee camps all over the world just in case something like this was to happen.

[ozleicester]

We are surely all human beings and it is our responsibility to care for anyone who is suffering. West/East - North/Sout, countries and borders are just a made up line on (mostly incorrect) maps.

 

You would think the British, who have been invaded, governed and plundered more than most, and have in turn attacked, colonised and taken over large swathes of the world would be the first to realise that borders, boundaries and what is "ours" is always subject to the time.

 

There is enough money, food and space to help people beyond caging them and patting them on the head.

[Buce]

We are surely all human beings and it is our responsibility to care for anyone who is suffering. West/East - North/Sout, countries and borders are just a made up line on (mostly incorrect) maps.

You would think the British, who have been invaded, governed and plundered more than most, and have in turn attacked, colonised and taken over large swathes of the world would be the first to realise that borders, boundaries and what is "ours" is always subject to the time.

There is enough money, food and space to help people beyond caging them and patting them on the head.

Not to disagree with your sentiments, Oz, but that is factually incorrect. Since becoming a nation-state we have been invaded and governed by others just the once, by the Normans in 1066.

[Buce]

Be that as it may, FIF seemed to imply that we are responsible for the standard of the refugee camps. In practical terms, I don't think it's reasonable to expect the West to have prepared good quality refugee camps all over the world just in case something like this was to happen.

FIF will no doubt clarify what he meant, but I inferred, from what he said, that he feels that we have a moral obligation to financially aid Lebanon in providing a decent standard of care in the camps. I concur with that, for the reasons already given. Lebanon is essentially a third-world country, and cannot be expected to cope alone with such a massive influx of dependant humanity.

[ozleicester]

Not to disagree with your sentiments, Oz, but that is factually incorrect. Since becoming a nation-state we have been invaded and governed by others just the once, by the Normans in 1066.

 

No worries, I was referring to the time before 1066.

 

Im no british historian, but from memory there were many many invaders/rulers between 0 - 1066. Either way doesnt really matter. these PEOPLE deserve better.

 

 

http://www.englandandenglishhistory.com/anglo-saxon-history/early-english-timeline-410-1066-ad

[Buce]

No worries, I was referring to the time before 1066.

Im no british historian, but from memory there were many many invaders/rulers between 0 - 1066. Either way doesnt really matter. these PEOPLE deserve better.

http://www.englandandenglishhistory.com/anglo-saxon-history/early-english-timeline-410-1066-ad

Yeah, point taken.

[MooseBreath]

FIF will no doubt clarify what he meant, but I inferred, from what he said, that he feels that we have a moral obligation to financially aid Lebanon in providing a decent standard of care in the camps. I concur with that, for the reasons already given. Lebanon is essentially a third-world country, and cannot be expected to cope alone with such a massive influx of dependant humanity.

They're not being expected to cope alone. They have received billions in financial aid and Britain is one of the biggest contributors. David Cameron was in refugee camps in Lebanon just over a week ago talking to the actual people there to see what they needed.

The problem is that refugees are arriving at a rapid rate. You can't just write a cheque, click your fingers and expect high quality refugee facilities to instantly appear. There are practical considerations beyond just handing out money and expecting problems to disappear.

Why do the left always think throwing money at problems is the only and best solution?

[Buce]

They're not being expected to cope alone. They have received billions in financial aid and Britain is one of the biggest contributors. David Cameron was in refugee camps in Lebanon just over a week ago talking to the actual people there to see what they needed.

The problem is that refugees are arriving at a rapid rate. You can't just write a cheque, click your fingers and expect high quality refugee facilities to instantly appear. There are practical considerations beyond just handing out money and expecting problems to disappear.

Why do the left always think throwing money at problems is the only and best solution?

It didn't take you long to become confrontational again, did it? This is fvck all to do with left and right, only what's wrong and right.

[Dr The Singh]

I'm sure you had a go at my punctuation / spelling before.

Any more of my relatives turn up and I'm leaving Britain.

Already got 6 weddings to avoid before xmas.

LET YOU OFF THE COMING

I used to be part of the Police.........The Grammar Police

 

So, are these weddings which you pay for a bride for a passport..........I may need this kind of service, very soon!!!

[Guest MattP]

It didn't take you long to become confrontational again, did it? This is fvck all to do with left and right, only what's wrong and right.

 

He's got a point though hasn't he? A huge portion of the left do seem to think that throwing money at things is the only way to solve problems and until they solve that the people won't trust them to govern again.

 

Don't think you can really moan abou being confrontational either, soon as Moose reappeared you immediately asking him how prison was etc and making all sorts of personal remarks.

[Guest]

Be that as it may, FIF seemed to imply that we are responsible for the standard of the refugee camps. In practical terms, I don't think it's reasonable to expect the West to have prepared good quality refugee camps all over the world just in case something like this was to happen.

 

When I hear the West's leaders talking about how concerned they are then I DO think that it is our responsibility to give more money to make those camps acceptable (and prevent the refugees from coming to the west).

 

Put your money where your mouth is.

 

Equally if the leader's said it's not our problem sort it yourself and don't come over here I'd understand them giving nothing/little.

[Buce]

Don't think you can really moan abou being confrontational either, soon as Moose reappeared you immediately asking him how prison was etc and making all sorts of personal remarks.

Oh, wind your neck in, you sanctimonious prat.

I asked if he'd been given parole; it was tongue-in-cheek humour, and I'm sure Moose took it as such.

I also told him that it hadn't been the same without him, and was the first to welcome him back.

[Guest MattP]

Oh, wind your neck in, you sanctimoneous prat.

I asked if he'd been given parole; it was tongue-in-cheek humour, and I'm sure Moose took it as such.

I also told him that it hadn't been the same without him, and was the first to welcome him back.

 

[Guest]

They're not being expected to cope alone. They have received billions in financial aid and Britain is one of the biggest contributors. David Cameron was in refugee camps in Lebanon just over a week ago talking to the actual people there to see what they needed.

The problem is that refugees are arriving at a rapid rate. You can't just write a cheque, click your fingers and expect high quality refugee facilities to instantly appear. There are practical considerations beyond just handing out money and expecting problems to disappear.

Why do the left always think throwing money at problems is the only and best solution?

 

If the sea is coming in and you leave your clothes on the beach to go for a swim would you leave them near the sea or move them further away?

 

All of this has been predictable.

 

If you get an unexpectedly high electricity bill because you've been re-charging your electric robot sex slave  everyday of the month. Do you write a cheque promptly or do you not pay the cheque and wait until extra penalty charges have been added before paying it?

 

Of course the Western Leaders can write a check promptly and reasonable quality (I've never said high) refugee facilities to appear in time or quickly.

 

I can't tell you what the left think but I don't think "throwing money" is the best or only solution. That's one reason why I'd consider better before throwing troops into countries to overturn governments that are not the ones we want at that time. Then again I'm not a person who wants to make those decisions for a nation either - my ego is big but not that big. 

[Guest]

He's got a point though hasn't he? A huge portion of the left do seem to think that throwing money at things is the only way to solve problems and until they solve that the people won't trust them to govern again.

 

Don't think you can really moan abou being confrontational either, soon as Moose reappeared you immediately asking him how prison was etc and making all sorts of personal remarks.

 

And the right aren't led as though money is their GOD.

 

Come on MattP the left and the right use money to solve problems - they just think the money should be thrown in different areas. It's just a tool after all isn't it?

[bovril]

Oh, wind your neck in, you sanctimonious prat.

I asked if he'd been given parole; it was tongue-in-cheek humour, and I'm sure Moose took it as such.

I also told him that it hadn't been the same without him, and was the first to welcome him back.

Who the fvck has pissed on your chips these days?

[Guest]

Who the fvck has pissed on your chips these days?

 

Believing something is right and something else isn't right is wrong now is it?

[MooseBreath]

It didn't take you long to become confrontational again, did it? This is fvck all to do with left and right, only what's wrong and right.

I'm scratching my head as to why you think that's confrontational at all, really.

I'll probably get banned again now you've said that though, thanks

[Guest MattP]

Who the fvck has pissed on your chips these days?

 

No idea, he's become a right arse these last few weeks though, the exchanges between him and Claridge had me reaching for the sick bowl at times, everything this forum shouldn't be about.