Migrants - What's the answer?

[ozleicester]

I am pretty sure we would all try and do whatever we could for our families. I'd be very upset if my kids got tear gassed. I'd also feel badly for putting them at risk. It's very sad the kids got caught up in this. If their parents went to formal border posts and requested asylum they wouldn't be in this position.

From what I've read, and heard on the radio, the migrants tried to force the border open. Now, unless they have visas, or are requesting asylum in Hungary, they are not legally allowed in. The crowd got angry and started throwing things at the police. The police used force. I do not expect them to wait to get injured as they check to see if there are women and children are in the crowd. The vast majority that were there are young men.

Here is a tip: Don't want to get yourself or your children tear gassed? Don't try to enter countries illegally. Go to your nearest safe country and request asylum.

 

Borders are imaginary, laws dont exist when you are escaping war.

[J.Lisemore]

Borders are imaginary, laws dont exist when you are escaping war.

 

They've already escaped it.

 

Borders are there for a reason, if they try to kick and scream it down, they'll get what's coming to them.

[Merging Cultures]

Borders are imaginary, laws dont exist when you are escaping war.

Of course they do, and I am sure you don't believe what you wrote anyway.

If you are in a warzone, do whatever you need to do. Once out of the warzone, you have to follow laws.

Hungary and Serbia are not at war. The migrants need to respect the laws or face the consequence.

[ozleicester]

Of course they do, and I am sure you don't believe what you wrote anyway.

If you are in a warzone, do whatever you need to do. Once out of the warzone, you have to follow laws.

Hungary and Serbia are not at war. The migrants need to respect the laws or face the consequence.

 

I most certainly do believe what ive written.

 

There are very few "laws" i wouldn't break in order to save and protect my family.

 

Seeing people forced to live in a way that almost none of us would accept if it were forced on us, seeing people assaulted for trying to make their and their childrens lives better, seeing government sponsored torture approved of by an uncaring public are offences to the eye and the brain and the fact that people can trot out lines like "they shouldnt be there" would be laughable if they werent so heartless.

 

even if, the parents shouldnt do what they do... it still is not the childrens fault, but they are still being gassed by governments at "our" behest..

[Merging Cultures]

I most certainly do believe what ive written.

There are very few "laws" i wouldn't break in order to save and protect my family.

Seeing people forced to live in a way that almost none of us would accept if it were forced on us, seeing people assaulted for trying to make their and their childrens lives better, seeing government sponsored torture approved of by an uncaring public are offences to the eye and the brain and the fact that people can trot out lines like "they shouldnt be there" would be laughable if they werent so heartless.

even if, the parents shouldnt do what they do... it still is not the childrens fault, but they are still being gassed by governments at "our" behest..

That's a different situation. You acknowledge there are laws, but are willing to break them and suffer the consequences of your actions. I would too. It doesn't stop the laws from existing though.

Outside the warzones: Where have you seen the torture? Or people being forced to live in a way we wouldn't want to live?

People always have options, some have chosen to break laws. If the governments didn't make camps for them and feed them, then what? Personally, I think the governments are giving people their basic rights to shelter and food. They also have safety if they don't break laws.

Even the migrants sent to Papua to be processed have choices. There are other safe countries much closer to claim asylum in. If you choose the more difficult approach, there are going to be consequences.

[ozleicester]

That's a different situation. You acknowledge there are laws, but are willing to break them and suffer the consequences of your actions. I would too. It doesn't stop the laws from existing though.

Outside the warzones: Where have you seen the torture? Or people being forced to live in a way we wouldn't want to live?

People always have options, some have chosen to break laws. If the governments didn't make camps for them and feed them, then what? Personally, I think the governments are giving people their basic rights to shelter and food. They also have safety if they don't break laws.

Even the migrants sent to Papua to be processed have choices. There are other safe countries much closer to claim asylum in. If you choose the more difficult approach, there are going to be consequences.

 

Ill not get bogged in semantics.

 

The torture i refer to, is the gassing of children.

 

This month and every month until December 2016, the ECB will print  $50,000000000... FIFTY BILLION euros... every month! .........So can anyone explain to me why we cant find the money to rescue, house and help these innocent people? 

[EastAnglianFox]

Borders are imaginary, laws dont exist when you are escaping war.

Wow!! What part of "they have already fled war" do you not see?

In regards to the children being caught up in tear gas etc, once the families have fled Syria it's the parents and the parents only that are putting them in that position..nobody else.

[ozleicester]

Wow!! What part of "they have already fled war" do you not see?

In regards to the children being caught up in tear gas etc, once the families have fled Syria it's the parents and the parents only that are putting them in that position..nobody else.

 

So because they are now out of war, they can be treated like animals... would you be happy with that?

 

The parents are not gassing them.

 

The parents may be wrong in taking them to the borders... but make no mistake, the government, (your representatives, acting on your behalf) are the ones authorising the use of gas on children.

[Dr The Singh]

So because they are now out of war, they can be treated like animals... would you be happy with that?

 

The parents are not gassing them.

 

The parents may be wrong in taking them to the borders... but make no mistake, the government, (your representatives, acting on your behalf) are the ones authorising the use of gas on children.

The parents are wrong!!

 

I didn't know we was part of Hungary!!!  Although, I think gassing is extreme, but they have every right to protect there borders.  I'm sure if gassing wasn't use, fookers on here would complain about using force....and this 'the poor children'.  These are not refugee's these people are economic migrants seeking a better world (I saw orientals, south east asians, and all sorts that looked nothing like SYrians), they can have safe haven right now, no need to go anywhere, but obviously the pubs are better in germany, so let's fook off there!!

[Guest]

So because they are now out of war, they can be treated like animals... would you be happy with that?

 

The parents are not gassing them.

 

The parents may be wrong in taking them to the borders... but make no mistake, the government, (your representatives, acting on your behalf) are the ones authorising the use of gas on children.

 

I'm sympathetic to refugees but I cannot understand why all those Young men are happy to fight the Hungarian police but not to stay at home and fight in their own country. Sure send the wife and children away to a safe country but get together and fight for what you want in your own country don't attack others in theirs.

[Guest MattP]

Borders are imaginary, laws dont exist when you are escaping war.

 

Do you actually seriously believe the stuff you write on here?

 

It's already been covered by other posters but these people are in Hungary, not Syria, for some reason you seem to be choosing to ignore this fact.

[Darkon84]

Thousands more have just forced their way through the Croatian border. The police were attempting to help the few women and children through, then, when it became apparent that not everyone was going to get through, they just forced and caused the police to stand down.

[bovril]

I think people will rapidly lose sympathy for these people when they see them smashing through borders.

[Darkon84]

I think people will rapidly lose sympathy for these people when they see them smashing through borders.

 

Smashing through borders, throwing rocks at police, kicking and fighting with police, the fact that the vast majority are healthy aged males, and that they are away from any warzone.....I think a lot of people already have lost sympathy.

[yorkie1999]

Apart from the odd photo obviously aimed to make everyone feel guilty and tug at our heart strings, where are all the women and children in the media pictures?  maybe they've stopped at home to do the fighting.

[Harry - LCFC]

Do we have any statistics on the proportion of men (I doubt it but you never know)? A lot of people have mentioned various photographs and video clips that appear to show a lot of men - these do raise suspicions but they aren't solid proof of anything.

[RedSoxUK]

Apart from the odd photo obviously aimed to make everyone feel guilty and tug at our heart strings, where are all the women and children in the media pictures?  maybe they've stopped at home to do the fighting.

 

The 'off' photo is laughable. Watching any ITV or BBC report, the bipartisan BBC that is, showing off their spin ability by unfairly representing the migrant mass is a joke in itself.

 

Search through the pictures of the boats in the Med and the big capacity ship that goes to Greece, and you'll see the real figure of women and children do be in single digit percentage 

[bovril]

Surely that's a good thing. More fit young men, less dependents?

[RedSoxUK]

Surely that's a good thing. More fit young men, less dependents?

 

It just enhances the point that these are economic migrants and not refugees - I repeat, the real refugees are in the UN camps in Lebanon and Turkey with the millions of other refugees fleeing the civil war.

 

I can't say what they'll do once they get to their final destination whether it be Germany or Sweden; but I can use logical reason to saya vast number of these men are trying to find as much money as possible and free living accomodation where they can then bring over their family if they havn't already - that's Germany, and Sweden.

[Darkon84]

Do we have any statistics on the proportion of men (I doubt it but you never know)? A lot of people have mentioned various photographs and video clips that appear to show a lot of men - these do raise suspicions but they aren't solid proof of anything.

 

 

Well from the live video earlier that showed them rushing through the police barrier, I don't think I saw a single woman or child. Fair enough I didn't see every single person there, but there must have been a fair few hundred just in once clip alone. Given that they are unregistered, I doubt we'll actually get any statistics anyway, but it's plain to see.

[EastAnglianFox]

Do you actually seriously believe the stuff you write on here?

It's already been covered by other posters but these people are in Hungary, not Syria, for some reason you seem to be choosing to ignore this fact.

Correct!!

I admire all people with views and opinions but the fact he keeps avoiding this question speaks volumes to me.

[DennisNedry]

Highly rated comments in the Guardian (!) about why are we reluctant to accept Syrians when we took Hugeuenots, Jews, Vietnamese, Ugandans etc.

 

Are left wingers finally showing some sense?

 

'Hugenots integrated and assimilated.

Jews, Hungarians, Vietnamse have [mostly] integrated and assumed the British way of life.

Some traditions/cultures do not want to adapt to the host society, but believe that their culture/tradition is superior and that the host society should adapt to their way of life – or at least accommodate it - even when it is in utterly contrary to our established values and way of life.'

.............................................................................................................................

We shouldn't accept economic migrants for a number of reasons:

1. There are too many. Potentially millions could come and that's no exaggeration as I think most people realise by now.
2. Sorry, but they are mostly Muslim. From experience in the UK and elsewhere, we know the majority do not integrate or appreciate British (European) values. 2-3rd generation British-Muslims still wearing headscarves and Islamic garb? Come on! 
3. We have our own poor, homeless, unemployed and sick who need caring for and are infrastructure is already creaking. 
4. Genuine refugees should be placed in neighbouring countries so they can return as soon as the conflict is over. EU can definitely fund these camps and help more. 
5. It's just not fair on the native population no matter how sad some of the 'refugee' stories might be. These are our (European) homelands and the only ones we have.

..................................................................................................................................

What religion were the Huguenots? What religion are Jews and the Vietnamese? Have there been any Jewish, Huguenot or Vietnamese terrorist attacks? Are there any cities in Europe that are circa 20-30% Huguenot, Jewish or Vietnamese (a la Marseilles and Birmingham)? Was there widespread concern that Europe might one day become majority Huguenot, Jewish or Vietnamese at the time?

.................................................................................................................................

Were the Vietnamese, Jewish & Huguenots throwing rocks & poles chanting "God Is Great" with their fists in the air? No didn't think so.

.................................................................................................................................

You know the people I feel empathy for is the father crying with his daughter in his arms as he arrived to shore, the happiness on the fathers face whos child was being kissed by a German welcoming them to Germany. Photos of the elderly , women and children who look helpless.

What I cant stand is hundreds of young aggressive men causing riots , sectarian fighting, robbing petrol stations, throwing bricks through cars that don't pick them up, throwing food parcels and water back at police and comparing Hungary to ISIS and demanding that they are taken their country of choice

.....................................................................................................................................

[J.Lisemore]

Highly rated comments in the Guardian (!) about why are we reluctant to accept Syrians when we took Hugeuenots, Jews, Vietnamese, Ugandans etc.

 

Are left wingers finally showing some sense?

 

'Hugenots integrated and assimilated.

Jews, Hungarians, Vietnamse have [mostly] integrated and assumed the British way of life.

Some traditions/cultures do not want to adapt to the host society, but believe that their culture/tradition is superior and that the host society should adapt to their way of life – or at least accommodate it - even when it is in utterly contrary to our established values and way of life.'

.............................................................................................................................

We shouldn't accept economic migrants for a number of reasons:

1. There are too many. Potentially millions could come and that's no exaggeration as I think most people realise by now.

2. Sorry, but they are mostly Muslim. From experience in the UK and elsewhere, we know the majority do not integrate or appreciate British (European) values. 2-3rd generation British-Muslims still wearing headscarves and Islamic garb? Come on! 

3. We have our own poor, homeless, unemployed and sick who need caring for and are infrastructure is already creaking. 

4. Genuine refugees should be placed in neighbouring countries so they can return as soon as the conflict is over. EU can definitely fund these camps and help more. 

5. It's just not fair on the native population no matter how sad some of the 'refugee' stories might be. These are our (European) homelands and the only ones we have.

..................................................................................................................................

What religion were the Huguenots? What religion are Jews and the Vietnamese? Have there been any Jewish, Huguenot or Vietnamese terrorist attacks? Are there any cities in Europe that are circa 20-30% Huguenot, Jewish or Vietnamese (a la Marseilles and Birmingham)? Was there widespread concern that Europe might one day become majority Huguenot, Jewish or Vietnamese at the time?

.................................................................................................................................

Were the Vietnamese, Jewish & Huguenots throwing rocks & poles chanting "God Is Great" with their fists in the air? No didn't think so.

.................................................................................................................................

You know the people I feel empathy for is the father crying with his daughter in his arms as he arrived to shore, the happiness on the fathers face whos child was being kissed by a German welcoming them to Germany. Photos of the elderly , women and children who look helpless.

What I cant stand is hundreds of young aggressive men causing riots , sectarian fighting, robbing petrol stations, throwing bricks through cars that don't pick them up, throwing food parcels and water back at police and comparing Hungary to ISIS and demanding that they are taken their country of choice

.....................................................................................................................................

 

I think the majority would share this opinion now, the sympathy has worn off with a lot of these people trying to knock borders down and causing violence.

[davieG]

It could cost £40,000 to resettle each Syrian refugee in Leicestershire according to one of its senior politicians.

Leicestershire County Council leader Nick Rushton has said the authority is willing to help take in people fleeing the conflict in the Middle East but again stressed the Government would have to provide cash for the resettlement programme.

Today senior officers from the county, city, and district councils met NHS officials and doctors at County Hall to discuss how they would accommodate and refugees sent their way.

Councillor Rushton said: "Planning is difficult

ere is likely to be an announcement from the Prime Minister soon.

"It could cost £40,000 per person to deal with them so if we get, say, 100 that is £4 million.

"Obviously it depends on what kind of people come here. If we get children who have nothing - just the clothes on their back, children who have been traumatised by the barbarities of ISIS, we must help them but it will be more expensive than adults who might be able to look after themselves more and need less support."

Coun Rushton said the £40,000 per person figure was likely to be a one off cost with further continuing expenses expected.

He said: "It's based on the £35,000 the London boroughs were offered which they said was not enough.

"We must have the resources from the Government so we can help these people.

"They will need health care, housing, education. It will be expensive and we will struggle to do it without Government cash.

Coun Rushton said: "It is more likely the refugees will go to Leicester which is a diverse city but they could end up in Hinckley, Loughborough and Coalville.

"I have heard a figure of 500 by the end of the year so if you divide that by the number of councils that is about 30 coming this way.

"But we just don't know."

He said he would be providing an update on the situation when the county council meets on Wednesday.

David Cameron has said the UK will resettle 20,000 displaced Syrians over five years. They will be taken from the camps on the Syrian border rather than from those currently moving through southern and eastern Europe.

He said the UK's foreign aid budget would fund the resettlement.

A number of groups in Leicester are preparing to welcome refugees.

The Leicester Progressive Jewish Congregation and the City of Sanctuary group are setting up English classes for new arrivals and collecting donations of clothes

A City of Sanctuary spokeswoman said: "Refugees arriving in England face a great deal of stress, feel marginalised, and often face huge difficulties becoming settled with their families in their new home.

"We step in to that environment and give them an opportunity to see another side of life in Leicester and to begin to find friends that they can turn to if they need help."

 

Read more: http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/cost-40k-resettle-Syrian-refugee-says/story-27824993-detail/story.html#ixzz3mAUvm0eA 
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[Guest MattP]

We should all be billing Germany for this.