Migrants - What's the answer?

[leicsmac]

Mac your attitude towards ISIS continues to shock; pretty much everything these guys have promised has occurred.

We shouldn't be so blasé and dismissive over their claims they will use the migrant crisis to flood Europe with jihadists.

I've heard it all before with Al Qaeda, Matt. And unlike this particular bunch of death worshipping fascists, that one actually managed to pull a spectacular - several, in fact, on western soil. Now they're either dead, in hiding or having to join other groups.

I have no doubt that ISIS could use this migrant situation to bring in killers to try something, but I have even less doubt that if they did so the response would be swift and devastating to them. They're trying to carve out a piece of the middle east for themselves to rule, they're not going to risk giving that up by launching an attack on the West that would end with them getting smashed into a bloody smear on the Iraqi/Syrian sand.

Fear is their most powerful, and quite often their only, weapon.

[Guest]

Bit over the top isn't it, but when some fvcker chops your head, don't start complaining.

 

I doubt he'd be able to.

[Bayfox]

I doubt he'd be able to.

[Guest MattP]

I've heard it all before with Al Qaeda, Matt. And unlike this particular bunch of death worshipping fascists, that one actually managed to pull a spectacular - several, in fact, on western soil. Now they're either dead, in hiding or having to join other groups.

I have no doubt that ISIS could use this migrant situation to bring in killers to try something, but I have even less doubt that if they did so the response would be swift and devastating to them. They're trying to carve out a piece of the middle east for themselves to rule, they're not going to risk giving that up by launching an attack on the West that would end with them getting smashed into a bloody smear on the Iraqi/Syrian sand.

Fear is their most powerful, and quite often their only, weapon.

 

The comparison isn't really comparable is it? ISIS have killed far more than Al Queda could ever have dreamed of, they have expanded over a huge stretch of land, enslaved thousands and managed to pull off terrorist attacks in numerous countries even in this day and age of increased security.

 

It's all very well saying things like "fear is their only weapon" but for the people having to actually deal with them that's not really much help, murder is actually their biggest weapon and they use it because it works, we've got millions fleeing the countries and holidaymakers being gunned down in cold blood, I'd say the greatest weapon ISIS has at the minute is the rest of the World's inability to do anything about them.

 

The Lebanese government is now telling us as many as 1 in 50 of these refugees ( http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/1-in-50-syrian-refugees-in-europe-could-be-an-isis-jihadist-minister-warns-david-cameron-10501249.html) could be a ISIS jihadist, it's that's anywhere near the truth we're going to need a bit more a plan to tackle it than just saying "fear is their most powerful weapon" - because in reality it isn't to anyone who has faced them.

[leicsmac]

The comparison isn't really comparable is it? ISIS have killed far more than Al Queda could ever have dreamed of, they have expanded over a huge stretch of land, enslaved thousands and managed to pull off terrorist attacks in numerous countries even in this day and age of increased security.

 

It's all very well saying things like "fear is their only weapon" but for the people having to actually deal with them that's not really much help, murder is actually their biggest weapon and they use it because it works, we've got millions fleeing the countries and holidaymakers being gunned down in cold blood, I'd say the greatest weapon ISIS has at the minute is the rest of the World's inability to do anything about them.

 

The Lebanese government is now telling us as many as 1 in 50 of these refugees ( http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/1-in-50-syrian-refugees-in-europe-could-be-an-isis-jihadist-minister-warns-david-cameron-10501249.html) could be a ISIS jihadist, it's that's anywhere near the truth we're going to need a bit more a plan to tackle it than just saying "fear is their most powerful weapon" - because in reality it isn't to anyone who has faced them.

 

Why are the two not comparable? Both are Islamic fundamentalist groups looking to cause terror in the West - the only difference is that up until now ISIS have tried to build a proto nation-state base first and decided to stay away (for the most part, far more than AQ) from Western targets. 

 

And Al Qaeda were far, far more effective at attacking targets in the West than ISIS are - again, so far.

 

They have managed to conquer large tracts of land and attempt to build a proto-state, largely with backing from rich financiers in Saudi Arabia, but they've come up against precious little 'real' opposition (other than the Kurds who are giving them a hard time at their own game). They've got nothing - NOTHING - that can match up to NATO ground military hardware in a straight fight, they know that - and IMO it's not the inability of the rest of the world that is stopping them getting curbstomped, it's deliberate holding back for fear of causing an even bigger mess by wiping them out. Hell, with the hardware they have the Israelis could probably do the job on their own if they were of a mind to. 

 

Evidently you think differently, but for all their gains and their rhetoric ISIS are a paper tiger, no more dangerous to the West than many other fundamentalist groups that have arisen in the past. The refugee crisis that has resulted from them turning Syria upside down is terrible, but again not an awful lot worse than many other local wars that have resulted in mass movement of people in the recent past.

 

And as for a plan besides not being afraid of them when it comes to facing them? Tell that to the Kurds, who are defending their own territory despite everything these whackjobs can throw at them.

 

Edit: Consider this - any one of the US, the UK or Israel could turn a vast swath of Syria and Iraq, including practically all ISIS territory, into radioactive glass and vapour at the push of a button. Of course, that would never happen, but that power is there. 

[Buce]

I think that reports of an increased Russian military build-up in Syria is quite significant. It's starting to look like Putin is going after IS in Syria.

[Babylon]

 

France has suspended its honorary consul in the Turkish port of Bodrum after a TV report showed a shop she owns selling dinghies to migrants.

Footage secretly filmed by France 2 TV shows Francoise Olcay selling dinghies and life jackets to migrants hoping to reach the Greek islands.

The UN says 124,000 people reached Greece's shores by sea in the first seven months of 2015.

Ms Olcay said the items would be bought elsewhere if she did not sell them.

Admitting that she was taking part in the trade, she alleged that local Turkish authorities were also involved.

She said others would have taken her place if she stopped selling supplies to the migrants.

The BBC's Hugh Schofield in Paris says that while honorary consuls are not members of the diplomatic corps, the news will be a big embarrassment to the French foreign ministry.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34229332

 

Going Turkey in a couple of weeks... sounds like there is some money to be made!!!

[Guest MattP]

Rioting now at the Serbian/Hungary border.

 

It was incredibly irresponsible of Germany to openly say they were going to welcome a huge amount of refugees, a classic case of trying to do good but actually causing misery and chaos and encouraging people to take all sorts of risks trying to work their way acorss the continent.

 

Also where are the women? Watching this and it's 95% blokes.

[Darkon84]

Rioting now at the Serbian/Hungary border.

 

It was incredibly irresponsible of Germany to openly say they were going to welcome a huge amount of refugees, a classic case of trying to do good but actually causing misery and chaos and encouraging people to take all sorts of risks trying to work their way acorss the continent.

 

Also where are the women? Watching this and it's 95% blokes.

 

A friends parents have just come back from a break in the Med and confirmed this. It's not the 'right wing media' twisting things to exaggerate. ssuch a huge proportion of migrants they saw were healthy young men. So many places were just overrun with them, crime on the rise, rubbish everywhere etc. Even people trying to help them were just getting mobbed so the food/provisions weren't even able to be handed out evenly.

[Guest MattP]

A friends parents have just come back from a break in the Med and confirmed this. It's not the 'right wing media' twisting things to exaggerate. ssuch a huge proportion of migrants they saw were healthy young men. So many places were just overrun with them, crime on the rise, rubbish everywhere etc. Even people trying to help them were just getting mobbed so the food/provisions weren't even able to be handed out evenly.

 

This is just mental on the news now, attacking police because they demand to get to Germany, behaving like savages in a country that has allowed them access in to flee a war zone.

[Wymsey]

They're not helping themselves.

 

Hope some of them don't come into Germany etc because of this.

[Dr The Singh]

Rioting now at the Serbian/Hungary border.

 

It was incredibly irresponsible of Germany to openly say they were going to welcome a huge amount of refugees, a classic case of trying to do good but actually causing misery and chaos and encouraging people to take all sorts of risks trying to work their way acorss the continent.

 

Also where are the women? Watching this and it's 95% blokes.

This was always going to happen!!

 

Majority are blokes because by now, majorirty aren't even from refugee area's but the rest of the bliming world.  I've got about 6 cousins from Punjab there all blokes, making the most of the opportunity to sneak into europe and head to Britian!!

[Dr The Singh]

This is just mental on the news now, attacking police because they demand to get to Germany, behaving like savages in a country that has allowed them access in to flee a war zone.

Because it's worked before, a few weeks ago, they protested and scuffled, and the police was blamed for being heavy handed.  So the logic they use is to riot, get beaten up, people feel sorry for em and they will be let in!!

[Guest]

Rioting now at the Serbian/Hungary border.

 

It was incredibly irresponsible of Germany to openly say they were going to welcome a huge amount of refugees, a classic case of trying to do good but actually causing misery and chaos and encouraging people to take all sorts of risks trying to work their way acorss the continent.

 

Also where are the women? Watching this and it's 95% blokes.

 

Young healthy blokes who could be fighting for what they want in their own country.

[EastAnglianFox]

Is Merkel in hiding!? Reap what you sow my dear!

[Guest MattP]

No she was making a speech together appealing for "our European unity to remain in tact".

With a completely straight face she followed that up by saying she would hope it remained in place without having to make threats.

[J.Lisemore]

Germany getting it all wrong again. They'll never learn will they.

[Dr The Singh]

Is Merkel in hiding!? Reap what you sow my dear!

That bitches planned failed. She tried to emotionally blackmail Europe into accepting loads of migrants, by opening the borders. Majority have stuck two fingers up, and now she is slowly closing the border s down, hoping nobody notices

[fuchsntf]

That bitches planned failed. She tried to emotionally blackmail Europe into accepting loads of migrants, by opening the borders. Majority have stuck two fingers up, and now she is slowly closing the border s down, hoping nobody notices

Living here in Germany, I can say that opinions on the street, and in pubs and cafes, is well split.

Many seriously do have sympathy and understanding, for the refugees plight, but even the real heavy do-gooders, say, too many young males.Families are thin on the ground and are often pushed to the front.

I think I can say across the board, that the Germans are saying, we dont want to take it on alone and the EG are too slow.The recent destruction of boarders, breaking down fences, destroying property,the refugees are losing alot of sympathy.

Basically saying, like any other countrys folk would remark, no support or welcome for such aggresive Refugees, because dont forget, they are no longer in danger.Especially if they accept 1st the camps.

We (europe) should not dally, and that all EU authoritie and politicians should be sitting down NOW, YESTERDAY, NOT WAIT until next week authorities reaction far too slow.

I see here on some posts that each country are slating the other, now its time the peoples on the EU streets stayed together, not be victims of rule and divide, with 'Peoples 'fight not for their governments actions, but let their governments know what their own citizens across the EU feel.The citizens, compassions, and their fears and worries.

Now its the time EG and it EMs worked their asses off to help solve the problem, they tell us they know what they do is for the common good,...now go out and bloody prove it, you bloodsuckers..!!!

Get your different sovereignties politicians together now and prioritisieren

[johnny the fox]

The UN secretary general  Ban Ki Moon  can condemn Hungary all he likes..he would be much better off organizing a UN conference and getting ALL nations to pull their weight on this and take a fair share of refugees'  not leave it just to Europe..its not Europe's problem or fault...

[Dr The Singh]

The UN secretary general  Ban Ki Moon  can condemn Hungary all he likes..he would be much better off organizing a UN conference and getting ALL nations to pull their weight on this and take a fair share of refugees'  not leave it just to Europe..its not Europe's problem or fault...

Disagree, the UN need to do more in the refugee camps in short term, and sort out the long term situation in the middle east.  Those refugee's that leave the camps, in my book are no longer refugee's but economic migrants!!

[johnny the fox]

Disagree, the UN need to do more in the refugee camps in short term, and sort out the long term situation in the middle east.  Those refugee's that leave the camps, in my book are no longer refugee's but economic migrants!!

Images of people being gassed and beaten don't play well... but expecting countries like sebia hungary and croatia to cope without a world plan is asking for trouble..if the united nations means anything surely its for stuff like this.

[Rincewind]

ALERTS TO THREATS IN 2015 EUROPE
From JOHN CLEESE

The English are feeling the pinch in relation to recent events in Syria and have therefore raised their security level from "Miffed" to "Peeved." Soon, though, security levels may be raised yet again to "Irritated" or even "A Bit Cross." The English have not been "A Bit Cross" since the blitz in 1940 when tea supplies nearly ran out. Terrorists have been re-categorised from "Tiresome" to "A Bloody Nuisance." The last time the British issued a "Bloody Nuisance" warning level was in 1588, when threatened by the Spanish Armada.

The Scots have raised their threat level from "Pissed Off" to "Let's get the Bastards." They don't have any other levels. This is the reason they have been used on the front line of the British army for the last 300 years.

The French government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from "Run" to "Hide." The only two higher levels in France are "Collaborate" and "Surrender." The rise was precipitated by a recent fire that destroyed France 's white flag factory, effectively paralysing the country's military capability.

Italy has increased the alert level from "Shout Loudly and Excitedly" to "Elaborate Military Posturing." Two more levels remain: "Ineffective Combat Operations" and "Change Sides."

The Germans have increased their alert state from "Disdainful Arrogance" to "Dress in Uniform and Sing Marching Songs." They also have two higher levels: "Invade a Neighbour" and "Lose."

Belgians, on the other hand, are all on holiday as usual; the only threat they are worried about is NATO pulling out of Brussels ..

The Spanish are all excited to see their new submarines ready to deploy. These beautifully designed subs have glass bottoms so the new Spanish navy can get a really good look at the old Spanish navy.

Australia, meanwhile, has raised its security level from "No worries" to "She'll be right, Mate." Two more escalation levels remain: "Crikey! I think we'll need to cancel the barbie this weekend!" and "The barbie is cancelled." So far no situation has ever warranted use of the last final escalation level.

Regards,
John Cleese ,
British writer, actor and tall person

And as a final thought - Greece is collapsing, the Iranians are getting aggressive, and Rome is in disarray. Welcome back to 430 BC. 

Life is too short...

 

Well said John.

[ozleicester]

imagine it was you. Imagine the entire UK was under attack

 

Your home and work bombed to oblivion, your parents, partners, siblings killed.

 

Your town has been destroyed. you cant access your savings. you have no where to go, no food.

 

What would you do?

 

 

Children, babies being tear gassed (tortured). This is NEVER right

 

[Merging Cultures]

imagine it was you. Imagine the entire UK was under attack

Your home and work bombed to oblivion, your parents, partners, siblings killed.

Your town has been destroyed. you cant access your savings. you have no where to go, no food.

What would you do?

Children, babies being tear gassed (tortured). This is NEVER right

I am pretty sure we would all try and do whatever we could for our families. I'd be very upset if my kids got tear gassed. I'd also feel badly for putting them at risk. It's very sad the kids got caught up in this. If their parents went to formal border posts and requested asylum they wouldn't be in this position.

From what I've read, and heard on the radio, the migrants tried to force the border open. Now, unless they have visas, or are requesting asylum in Hungary, they are not legally allowed in. The crowd got angry and started throwing things at the police. The police used force. I do not expect them to wait to get injured as they check to see if there are women and children are in the crowd. The vast majority that were there are young men.

Here is a tip: Don't want to get yourself or your children tear gassed? Don't try to enter countries illegally. Go to your nearest safe country and request asylum.