Dr The Singh Posted 19 September 2015 Posted 19 September 2015 We should all be billing Germany for this.It would have been cheaper to get my cousins over first class on visitor visa! Not happy about this
RedSoxUK Posted 21 September 2015 Posted 21 September 2015 So because they are now out of war, they can be treated like animals... would you be happy with that? The parents are not gassing them. The parents may be wrong in taking them to the borders... but make no mistake, the government, (your representatives, acting on your behalf) are the ones authorising the use of gas on children. I think you're missing some of the basic points here; nobody wants to treat the economic migrants like animals. It all stems back to the fact a high percentage of Syrians's that are fleeing the civil war are in UN camps within Lebanon and Turkey, where they should realistically be kept till Syria comes full circle. What we are doing as a nation is giving a massive amount of monetary aid to Lebanon and to the UN and refugee crisis funds to help them where they are, this is what we all should do if we're meaning to help the refugees. What the economic migrants are doing is travelling towards Germany and then Sweden if they so choose to do. Predominantly military aged men, Brietbart released the UN figures today, 72% are men - the other 28% accounts for both women and children. Why Germany and why Sweden? is a simple question of basic economics even the most primitve of people could understand. It's not about going to the safest location, but the locations which have the greatest and most rewarding welfare system, the two countries who have this in Europe are Sweden and Germany. Another rewarding (to refugees this is on all accounts) country is France - which is why the French speaking Africans seek refugee there; why so many are camped in Calais. The big question to those in Calais is why not claim refugee status in France? and the answer is because they're English speaking migrants - don't fit in with the other refugee and migrant population, and because they have family and friends already in the UK. As for the harm done to the economic migrants, the UK isn't authorising it, the EU isn't authorising it - the countres who are trying to protect their borders are authorising a defence, not an attack. As for the gassing of children, you have to ask why is it happening. Is it being provoked by the economic migrants trying to push on through the borders? most definitely. This was one of the strong images used by the media: http://www.smh.com.au/content/dam/images/g/j/o/f/l/f/image.related.articleLeadwide.620x349.gjofkw.png/1442440960219.jpg Reflecting that the Hungarian police and border protection are bad for using force and tear-gas, okay - Why is she there first of all, why is she not in a refugee camp in Lebanon? as the fundamental pre-question. Then you look at the back story to that picture and it's evidently forged and adds up to their own wrong-doing, more so than the Hungarians. There's a video on YouTube i'll have to trawl through my history to find, which clearly shows this girl being pulled by another economic migrant in to the area where the Hungarian police / border were spraying tear-gas. A picture is worth a thousand words yes, epecially when used to trickle down your spine to create victims and villians, but you have to question the perogative - photojournalists do see a different picture to the one their taking, and the ones which surface through mainstream media are ofcourse the most capsulating. But don't believe everything you read and see. - Furthermore if that was our police and border in a make-shift alternative universe where Britain wasn't landlocked, I would completely support the use of force such as this to defend the influx of mass economical migration mainland Europe is facing right now.
bovril Posted 21 September 2015 Posted 21 September 2015 You'd be man enough to push the button I'm sure.
bovril Posted 21 September 2015 Posted 21 September 2015 why not? seems ive already pushed yours err... ok
AyewJoking Posted 21 September 2015 Posted 21 September 2015 lets leave it there, i just cant be bovvered.
RedSoxUK Posted 21 September 2015 Posted 21 September 2015 I'm pretty sure nuking Syria solves nothing Royston.
Stadt Posted 21 September 2015 Posted 21 September 2015 Probably get more refugees if there was a nuke
AyewJoking Posted 21 September 2015 Posted 21 September 2015 it was a picture, why did you assume i meant nuking Syria?
RedSoxUK Posted 21 September 2015 Posted 21 September 2015 it was a picture, why did you assume i meant nuking Syria? 1. Picture of a nuclear explosion 2. Topic is: Migrants - What's the answer?
AyewJoking Posted 21 September 2015 Posted 21 September 2015 syriasly? phew! i was feeling the pressure there.
ozleicester Posted 21 September 2015 Posted 21 September 2015 I think you're missing some of the basic points here; nobody wants to treat the economic migrants like animals. It all stems back to the fact a high percentage of Syrians's that are fleeing the civil war are in UN camps within Lebanon and Turkey, where they should realistically be kept till Syria comes full circle. What we are doing as a nation is giving a massive amount of monetary aid to Lebanon and to the UN and refugee crisis funds to help them where they are, this is what we all should do if we're meaning to help the refugees. What the economic migrants are doing is travelling towards Germany and then Sweden if they so choose to do. Predominantly military aged men, Brietbart released the UN figures today, 72% are men - the other 28% accounts for both women and children. Why Germany and why Sweden? is a simple question of basic economics even the most primitve of people could understand. It's not about going to the safest location, but the locations which have the greatest and most rewarding welfare system, the two countries who have this in Europe are Sweden and Germany. Another rewarding (to refugees this is on all accounts) country is France - which is why the French speaking Africans seek refugee there; why so many are camped in Calais. The big question to those in Calais is why not claim refugee status in France? and the answer is because they're English speaking migrants - don't fit in with the other refugee and migrant population, and because they have family and friends already in the UK. As for the harm done to the economic migrants, the UK isn't authorising it, the EU isn't authorising it - the countres who are trying to protect their borders are authorising a defence, not an attack. As for the gassing of children, you have to ask why is it happening. Is it being provoked by the economic migrants trying to push on through the borders? most definitely. This was one of the strong images used by the media: http://www.smh.com.au/content/dam/images/g/j/o/f/l/f/image.related.articleLeadwide.620x349.gjofkw.png/1442440960219.jpg Reflecting that the Hungarian police and border protection are bad for using force and tear-gas, okay - Why is she there first of all, why is she not in a refugee camp in Lebanon? as the fundamental pre-question. Then you look at the back story to that picture and it's evidently forged and adds up to their own wrong-doing, more so than the Hungarians. There's a video on YouTube i'll have to trawl through my history to find, which clearly shows this girl being pulled by another economic migrant in to the area where the Hungarian police / border were spraying tear-gas. A picture is worth a thousand words yes, epecially when used to trickle down your spine to create victims and villians, but you have to question the perogative - photojournalists do see a different picture to the one their taking, and the ones which surface through mainstream media are ofcourse the most capsulating. But don't believe everything you read and see. - Furthermore if that was our police and border in a make-shift alternative universe where Britain wasn't landlocked, I would completely support the use of force such as this to defend the influx of mass economical migration mainland Europe is facing right now. Para 1 - Putting them in fenced camps (cages) stopping them from coming and going, preventing them from working, controlling their food supply. Sounds much like how we treat animals. Para 2 - Yes, people are trying to get to countries where they have the greatest opportunity, why wouldnt they, i would and im sure you would also. "Primitive" or not, people are seeking the best life they can have, if not for pure luck as to where you are born you would do the same, we all try for the best. Para 3 - Im not saying "we" as in the UK, im saying "we" in terms of human beings... We are one race and we are treating other members of that race appallingly. Para 4 - Whether the refugees are wrong for having their children there with them is irrelevant...it still does not justify gassing children, the police and decision makers ARE gassing children. full stop! end of! In another time, it might be considered they are using chemical weapons on children and that is shameful and that people defend it is also shameful. Para 5 - If your next door neighbour comes to you for help... do you slam the door in their face? No one seems concerend that the EU will print fifty BILLION euros a month to pay off bankers and wealthy cvnts... why not bump that up to 100 Billion a month and use thoise $ to build factories, to give jobs to unemployed people and refugees, invest that money in creating better health care, employ more nurses, police, use that money to help settle refugees and help them become valuable members of society.
RedSoxUK Posted 21 September 2015 Posted 21 September 2015 Para 1 - Putting them in fenced camps (cages) stopping them from coming and going, preventing them from working, controlling their food supply. Sounds much like how we treat animals. Para 2 - Yes, people are trying to get to countries where they have the greatest opportunity, why wouldnt they, i would and im sure you would also. "Primitive" or not, people are seeking the best life they can have, if not for pure luck as to where you are born you would do the same, we all try for the best. Para 3 - Im not saying "we" as in the UK, im saying "we" in terms of human beings... We are one race and we are treating other members of that race appallingly. Para 4 - Whether the refugees are wrong for having their children there with them is irrelevant...it still does not justify gassing children, the police and decision makers ARE gassing children. full stop! end of! In another time, it might be considered they are using chemical weapons on children and that is shameful and that people defend it is also shameful. Para 5 - If your next door neighbour comes to you for help... do you slam the door in their face? No one seems concerend that the EU will print fifty BILLION euros a month to pay off bankers and wealthy cvnts... why not bump that up to 100 Billion a month and use thoise $ to build factories, to give jobs to unemployed people and refugees, invest that money in creating better health care, employ more nurses, police, use that money to help settle refugees and help them become valuable members of society. All valid points and opinions, RE refuge camps, this is why I've put emphasis on supporting these camps with the UN, and ensuring the quality of life within them. RE Opportunity, yeah I've said previously I would do exactly the same, I would go straight to Sweden. It's our job as the European Union to stop that happening, when mass immigration occurs it can cripple multiple economies and be an strain on public resources, manpower and financially - that's why I would want them being supported where they are instead of re-housing them, with that - some of the media has been spinning quotes like "we need to take our share" then referencing Lebanon taking 1.5m and Turkey a similar figure. They fail to realise that these are temporary refuge camps established as a support buffer till Syria re-emerges as a safe place. What the UK/Germany/Sweden and any country taking in refugees are doing is offering potential residence and long-term, (by long-term I mean unlimited generations of offspring and citizenship) to hundreds of thousands, if not millions of refugees, migrants in Germany's case - and I can bet my life the majority that become refugees in Europe stay here, and do not return. These are the people who need to be re-building Syria when it's ready to be re-built. As for border privilege, you have to bloom where you were planted, as is the case for many billions of people. RE: Humanity, I disagree, the Hungarians were using apt force, apt. For far too long the media has portrayed those blocking the borders as villains, and show them as harming the innocence - the latter part may be true, but in a different perspective, migrants have been seen throwing their children over fences, throwning children to the ground in protest, denying free food and water aid to their children, endangering their lives on a constant and consistent basis via crossing the Med, holding children up as a defensive mechanism to provent being harmed by others. RE: my neighbour, no I would not. But it doesn't apply - I stand firmly on helping people where they are, fixing Syria and other war-torn countrues, and mending them back to a liveable reality.
The Doctor Posted 21 September 2015 Posted 21 September 2015 All valid points and opinions, RE refuge camps, this is why I've put emphasis on supporting these camps with the UN, and ensuring the quality of life within them. RE Opportunity, yeah I've said previously I would do exactly the same, I would go straight to Sweden. It's our job as the European Union to stop that happening, when mass immigration occurs it can cripple multiple economies and be an strain on public resources, manpower and financially - that's why I would want them being supported where they are instead of re-housing them, with that - some of the media has been spinning quotes like "we need to take our share" then referencing Lebanon taking 1.5m and Turkey a similar figure. They fail to realise that these are temporary refuge camps established as a support buffer till Syria re-emerges as a safe place. What the UK/Germany/Sweden and any country taking in refugees are doing is offering potential residence and long-term, (by long-term I mean unlimited generations of offspring and citizenship) to hundreds of thousands, if not millions of refugees, migrants in Germany's case - and I can bet my life the majority that become refugees in Europe stay here, and do not return. These are the people who need to be re-building Syria when it's ready to be re-built. As for border privilege, you have to bloom where you were planted, as is the case for many billions of people. RE: Humanity, I disagree, the Hungarians were using apt force, apt. For far too long the media has portrayed those blocking the borders as villains, and show them as harming the innocence - the latter part may be true, but in a different perspective, migrants have been seen throwing their children over fences, throwning children to the ground in protest, denying free food and water aid to their children, endangering their lives on a constant and consistent basis via crossing the Med, holding children up as a defensive mechanism to provent being harmed by others. RE: my neighbour, no I would not. But it doesn't apply - I stand firmly on helping people where they are, fixing Syria and other war-torn countrues, and mending them back to a liveable reality. That's a bet you'd lose. Listen to them and most want to stay there - where their homes are and heritage is. But, they're fleeing because it's effectively a choice between leave or be killed.
BlueSi13 Posted 21 September 2015 Posted 21 September 2015 That's a bet you'd lose. Listen to them and most want to stay there - where their homes are and heritage is. But, they're fleeing because it's effectively a choice between leave or be killed. If they planned on going back to Syria then why make the trek all the way to Germany, Sweden & the UK? Why not sit it out in the peaceful countries bordering Syria? We all know the answer. The majority aren't going anywhere buddy.
RedSoxUK Posted 21 September 2015 Posted 21 September 2015 That's a bet you'd lose. Listen to them and most want to stay there - where their homes are and heritage is. But, they're fleeing because it's effectively a choice between leave or be killed. Most if not all of the refugees want to stay in Syria and live there yes of course. These are refugees, they are found in the countries bordering Syria - Turkey and Lebanon mostly. The economic migrants on the other hand have the opportunity to take 'refugee status' and claim home in a foreign, European state. They are who i'm referring to in this essence. If it wasn't to be true, why Germany? why Sweden? As i've mentioned above, these economic migrants aiming for these places are driven by welfare greed, not refuge.
The Doctor Posted 21 September 2015 Posted 21 September 2015 If they planned on going back to Syria then why make the trek all the way to Germany, Sweden & the UK? Why not sit it out in the peaceful countries bordering Syria? We all know the answer. The majority aren't going anywhere buddy. Because Lebanon has already taken around 1m refugees, from an original population of 4 million, and now a massive population density. Turkey and Jordan are similarly struggling given parts of Turkey are at war. Near half the population of Syria has been displaced, the bordering countries alone can't handle that. So, they head into Europe and hit Greece, a basketcase incapable of helping and a place that has a serious neo-nazi problem, or Hungary, which has serious problems also with neo-nazis and anti-islamic sentiments. So, they move beyond that to a place where they'll be safe, and the countries where they'll be safe that have said they'll help are the likes of Germany.
bovril Posted 21 September 2015 Posted 21 September 2015 Because Lebanon has already taken around 1m refugees, from an original population of 4 million, and now a massive population density. Turkey and Jordan are similarly struggling given parts of Turkey are at war. Near half the population of Syria has been displaced, the bordering countries alone can't handle that. So, they head into Europe and hit Greece, a basketcase incapable of helping and a place that has a serious neo-nazi problem, or Hungary, which has serious problems also with neo-nazis and anti-islamic sentiments. So, they move beyond that to a place where they'll be safe, and the countries where they'll be safe that have said they'll help are the likes of Germany. Indeed. A Greek friend of mine told me this morning that Golden Dawn were campaigning pretty vigorously in the islands and picked up a lot of votes there.
Dr The Singh Posted 21 September 2015 Posted 21 September 2015 Because Lebanon has already taken around 1m refugees, from an original population of 4 million, and now a massive population density. Turkey and Jordan are similarly struggling given parts of Turkey are at war. Near half the population of Syria has been displaced, the bordering countries alone can't handle that. So, they head into Europe and hit Greece, a basketcase incapable of helping and a place that has a serious neo-nazi problem, or Hungary, which has serious problems also with neo-nazis and anti-islamic sentiments. So, they move beyond that to a place where they'll be safe, and the countries where they'll be safe that have said they'll help are the likes of Germany. Bullshit!!! Many of these ethnic migrants/refugee's were interviewed, not one mentioned neo nazi's and anti-islamic nature, they all mentioned....guess what.......£££££££££££££££
The Doctor Posted 21 September 2015 Posted 21 September 2015 Bullshit!!! Many of these ethnic migrants/refugee's were interviewed, not one mentioned neo nazi's and anti-islamic nature, they all mentioned....guess what.......£££££££££££££££ Where? Because, rather saddening for journalistic standards here, an american comedy website has done the best write up of the situation so far. Choice quotes: "The mayor of the city said a couple days ago that he didn't want the migrants riding buses together with the local children. They claim the mayor just said what everybody else thinks: They'll catch some disease from the migrants." "I think we have a right to decide that we do not want a large number of Muslim people in our country." He went on to explain, "We do not like the consequences." The latter being from the Hungarian prime minister.
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