Migrants - What's the answer?

[Webbo]

Moose said they have an  agenda to report on migrants causing trouble. If that is their aim then I will question as to how much stretching the truth has been done for its readers.

He said that they have an agenda to report the truth, surely you agree with that?

[Rincewind]

Not sure that's true but as we are on the subject of the Finns and The Guardian here's maybe some underpinning reasoning for the KKK and Odin (ous) reactions:

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/19/timo-soini-far-right-finns-party-finland-government

I  see what you mean

[Rincewind]

He said that they have an agenda to report the truth, surely you agree with that?

I agree with what MC said in the US  president poll thread. His last post about people not finding out if something is true.

All newspapers SHOULD report the truth. Their main agenda is to sell papers and they all have a selective audience who will go along with what is reported without questioning it.

[Guest MattP]

Immigrants are trying to leave Finland whilst others are raping the locals? Perhaps a tad inflammatory. The groups protesting are naming themselves 'son's of Odin' and the odd members are dressing up in KKK costumes for protests. I agree its a mess but the government are welcoming them with open arms and sections of the population are mobilising themselves in xzenophobic fashions which is being heavily reported today through the lenses of the Mail and the Telegraph. 

 

To be fair I read an article in the Guardian last week reporting on this situation that seemed to want to tell the whole truth, it wasn't shy at all about the behaviour of both sides on this argument.  Is it imflammatory? Probably, the truth often is, but would we rather have that or go back to the situation where the left wing press refused to report rape ala Rotherham etc just not to offend certain communities? The latter is far worse.

 

That said, what sort of a person gets to a country that has allowed them refuge and then repays them by raping the natives? Horrific.

[Rincewind]

How many rapists are we talking about? One? two? Tens? Hundreds? Thousands? It seems  they have the combined total for the whole of Europe drop in on their doorstep if you believe the papers.

However many there were the aim of the story was to get a negative reaction against the migrants. It seems that aim  as worked on here.

[Guest MattP]

How many rapists are we talking about? One? two? Tens? Hundreds? Thousands? It seems  they have the combined total for the whole of Europe drop in on their doorstep if you believe the papers.

However many there were the aim of the story was to get a negative reaction against the migrants. It seems that aim  as worked on here.

 

It mentioned there had been a number of rapes, it certainly didn't imply that they have the combined total for the whole of Europe drop in on their doorstep, whatever that is even supposed to mean.

You really think the Guardian intended to run a story to get a negative reaction against migrants?

[Nick]

To be fair I read an article in the Guardian last week reporting on this situation that seemed to want to tell the whole truth, it wasn't shy at all about the behaviour of both sides on this argument.  Is it imflammatory? Probably, the truth often is, but would we rather have that or go back to the situation where the left wing press refused to report rape ala Rotherham etc just not to offend certain communities? The latter is far worse.

 

That said, what sort of a person gets to a country that has allowed them refuge and then repays them by raping the natives? Horrific.

Yup, but by the same token we perhaps should be outraged by any instance of rape - but the focus here is on the fact an immigrant has been charged following an allegation. There may have been 100 other men charged with rape this month in Finland but we are only focussing on the incident involving an immigrant. I'm not sure the fact that the accused is an immigrant makes the case worse as it perhaps the concepts of gratitude and rape don't actually have any relationship at all! But I know what you mean Matt.

I don't think any newspapers print they truth - they of course print representations of the truth that suit their political agendas.

The Daily Mail song always cheers me up though:

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ue8GOry52xo

 

[Strokes]

To be fair I read an article in the Guardian last week reporting on this situation that seemed to want to tell the whole truth, it wasn't shy at all about the behaviour of both sides on this argument.  Is it imflammatory? Probably, the truth often is, but would we rather have that or go back to the situation where the left wing press refused to report rape ala Rotherham etc just not to offend certain communities? The latter is far worse.

 

That said, what sort of a person gets to a country that has allowed them refuge and then repays them by raping the natives? Horrific.

Yeah I think I would rape my own kind first, it just isn't very polite.

[Guest MattP]

Yup, but by the same token we perhaps should be outraged by any instance of rape - but the focus here is on the fact an immigrant has been charged following an allegation. There may have been 100 other men charged with rape this month in Finland but we are only focussing on the incident involving an immigrant. I'm not sure the fact that the accused is an immigrant makes the case worse as it perhaps the concepts of gratitude and rape don't actually have any relationship at all! But I know what you mean Matt.

I don't think any newspapers print they truth - they of course print representations of the truth that suit their political agendas.

 

We should be outraged by any instance of rape, but it is news to report this sort of thing, it is different to any other accusation of rape because the government has specifically taken in these people by choice and the same government is responsible for the safety of it's own people first and foremost.

 

I actually think most newspapers print the truth, certainly the better ones, they just report it in the way, I don't think many press go out of their way to lie.

[Webbo]

If 2 rival newspapers are reporting the same thing, something that's easy to check, then it's unlikely to be a fabrication.

[Guest]

We should be outraged by any instance of rape, but it is news to report this sort of thing, it is different to any other accusation of rape because the government has specifically taken in these people by choice and the same government is responsible for the safety of it's own people first and foremost.

 

I actually think most newspapers print the truth, certainly the better ones, they just report it in the way, I don't think many press go out of their way to lie.

 

If that's the case these national newspapers should also be reporting the daily rape cases in Britain. But that wouldn't happen would it because rape - unless it's by a celebrity or an immigrant isn't Worth newspaper space.

[Webbo]

If that's the case these national newspapers should also be reporting the daily rape cases in Britain. But that wouldn't happen would it because rape - unless it's by a celebrity or an immigrant isn't Worth newspaper space.

I think the papers are reporting the political fall out from these cases, which is newspaper worthy.

[Guest MattP]

If that's the case these national newspapers should also be reporting the daily rape cases in Britain. But that wouldn't happen would it because rape - unless it's by a celebrity or an immigrant isn't Worth newspaper space.

 

How many rapes go unreported then?

 

Our local ones seem to be in the Mercury, many also seem to appear in the nationals when done by immigrants or locals.

[Nick]

How many rapes go unreported then?

 

Our local ones seem to be in the Mercury, many also seem to appear in the nationals when done by immigrants or locals.

 

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Rape-victims

 

Finland in the top three for victims of rape by country since 2002 according to this site...

[Guest MattP]

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Rape-victims

 

Finland in the top three for victims of rape by country since 2002 according to this site...

 

That graph only seems to show 19 countries and it looks like it's based on 2002 rather than since.

[Guest MattP]

And you can't take anything seriously that has Japan bottom in a list regarding sexual assault.

[Nick]

And you can't take anything seriously that has Japan bottom in a list regarding sexual assault.

 

Yeah, just the result of a google - lots more countries and year spread if you alter the victim tab to offence pro rata population.

 

Intersting to note just how high Finland scores on many areas of crime actually...

[Dr The Singh]

Rape and women exploitation is common in the third world, even in so called democratic countries like India for example. Apparently there's 10 rapes every minute in India that goes unreported. There's over 1 million child prostitutes in Mumbai alone. The mentality of men in these parts of the world are far different. You say report it, alot of the rape is by the police, of not, unless you've got money, you got no chance

[Rincewind]

Yup, but by the same token we perhaps should be outraged by any instance of rape - but the focus here is on the fact an immigrant has been charged following an allegation. There may have been 100 other men charged with rape this month in Finland but we are only focussing on the incident involving an immigrant. I'm not sure the fact that the accused is an immigrant makes the case worse as it perhaps the concepts of gratitude and rape don't actually have any relationship at all! But I know what you mean Matt.

I don't think any newspapers print they truth - they of course print representations of the truth that suit their political agendas.

The Daily Mail song always cheers me up though:

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ue8GOry52xo

 

This

[DennisNedry]

Rape and women exploitation is common in the third world, even in so called democratic countries like India for example. Apparently there's 10 rapes every minute in India that goes unreported. There's over 1 million child prostitutes in Mumbai alone. The mentality of men in these parts of the world are far different. You say report it, alot of the rape is by the police, of not, unless you've got money, you got no chance

 

I love how you can get away with this Singh, imagine if Moose had posted this

[Dr The Singh]

I love how you can get away with this Singh, imagine if Moose had posted this

Seriously. None of it is racist, bigoted. These are facts and reality, which anyone can research and find out. None of it personal or a personal attack

[Bayfox]

If anyone has any photos of how bleak Swansea looked on the way in on Saturday, dropping a whole load of leaflets instead of bombs, all over the middle east, suggesting that this is the place you are heading for, would result in most turning round and heading home again.

Depressing and wet/cold. Stay where it's at least a bit warmer.

[Thracian]

I agree with what MC said in the US  president poll thread. His last post about people not finding out if something is true.

All newspapers SHOULD report the truth. Their main agenda is to sell papers and they all have a selective audience who will go along with what is reported without questioning it.

 

 

Why don't you actually stop to engage your brain occasionally? It's a bloody good job you don't have to answer personally to the people you insult. Have you ever written for a proper newspaper?

I've worked for several and have NEVER been given any sort of idealogical agenda. Nor have I ever been asked to doctor the information given to me or what I believed to be the truth.

As for readers "going along" with everything reported are you for real? There's a letters page even in the Leicester Mercury to furnish you with widespread evidence to the contrary. Newspapers at every level are taken to task all the time and there also a kind of ombudsman or complaints authority that is constantly kept busy.

Standards might have dropped due to the economic effects of circulation drops with the advent of the internet but at the Birmingham Post & Mail I can assure you they were pissed off even if there was a spelling mistake in their publication let alone reporting that couldn't be defended with facts.       

[sphericalfox]

Why don't you actually stop to engage your brain occasionally? It's a bloody good job you don't have to answer personally to the people you insult. Have you ever written for a proper newspaper?

I've worked for several and have NEVER been given any sort of idealogical agenda. Nor have I ever been asked to doctor the information given to me or what I believed to be the truth.

As for readers "going along" with everything reported are you for real? There's a letters page even in the Leicester Mercury to furnish you with widespread evidence to the contrary. Newspapers at every level are taken to task all the time and there also a kind of ombudsman or complaints authority that is constantly kept busy.

Standards might have dropped due to the economic effects of circulation drops with the advent of the internet but at the Birmingham Post & Mail I can assure you they were pissed off even if there was a spelling mistake in their publication let alone reporting that couldn't be defended with facts.       

 

OM-BUDS-MAN

[Thracian]

If that's the case these national newspapers should also be reporting the daily rape cases in Britain. But that wouldn't happen would it because rape - unless it's by a celebrity or an immigrant isn't Worth newspaper space.

 

 

Save for the wishes of the victims I don't see any reason why all rapes shouldn't be reported and certainly don't see one as necessarily worse than another. Like every crime there should be a trial and judgement accordingly.

 

But Matt's point is still a valid one. Every country has rapists but it is one thing having to suffer the shame of dealing with our own rapists and quite another to wilfully import some more.

 

As I've said there needs to me far more vigilant checks and far greater requirements of invited incomers and a situation where we can immediately deal with any incomer found to have gained admission under false pretences or who subsequently throws our hospitality back in our faces by behaving in any way that is against our interests.