Huge leak exposes elite's tax havens

[Benji]

That was one thing I thought, yes... but the other suprise for me is the relative lack of outside income (from investments and the like) given how little he is making?

 

 

He's PM so he'll be intentionally clean for days like this.  That's why he sold these shares in the first place.

 

If he's got half a brain he'll look at someone like Blair and realise he'll earn a shed load of money as soon as he finishes office and the circa 200k is more than enough to keep him going for eight years while living in no. 10.

[Rincewind]

I am sure there are are MP's across all parties wearing brown trousers  ATM.  

[Jon the Hat]

Seriously the headline on BBC news site is that fact that Cameron's mum gifted him £200k.  Mum gives cash to son is not news.  Perfectly normal tax planning step.  If she dies within 7 years he will pay inheritance tax on it, as has been the law for many years.

 

Lots of media linking this with the Jimmy Carr et al scehem, but that was an example of searching out an obscure loophole and manufacturing a method of exploiting it, not investing in a fully regulating fund for over 10 years, making a modest return and paying tax on it, or carrying out standard inheritance tax planning.

 

Yes if it turns out there is millions of assets stashed away offshore he would have to go, but that doesn't appear to be the case does it?

[Rincewind]

I don't know how relevant this is. Interpret it how you want. I'm on the fence.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/10/hmrc-chief-partner-law-firm-offshore-fund-cameron?CMP=share_btn_fb

[DJ Barry Hammond]

I don't know how relevant this is. Interpret it how you want. I'm on the fence.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/10/hmrc-chief-partner-law-firm-offshore-fund-cameron?CMP=share_btn_fb

I'd argue those are good credentials for him to get the job at HMRC!

[Rincewind]

I'd argue those are good credentials for him to get the job at HMRC!

Although it says although his firm dealt with them he did not. So he is not suspected of any wrongdoing. Perfectly reasonable explanation..

 

Let's see which MP can beat this

 

Debty McDebtyface ‏@EtonOldBoys  6h6 hours ago

MP ???????? was the lowest expenses claimer in the country – after putting in for just £8.70 for an ink cartridge, ????? 's hate him

[Jon the Hat]

Judging people by how much they claim on expenses is only relevant if you think the wealthier MPs funding themselves is a good thing.

[Jon the Hat]

I'd argue those are good credentials for him to get the job at HMRC!

 

Poacher turned Gamekeeper indeed, a strong appointment.  I would like to see many more people from the private sector backgrounds moving to the public sector.

I don't know how relevant this is. Interpret it how you want. I'm on the fence.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/10/hmrc-chief-partner-law-firm-offshore-fund-cameron?CMP=share_btn_fb

 

Completely irrelevant I should think Ken.

[Finnegan]

Skinner.

[leicsmac]

Skinner.

 

Man clearly did not give a bundle of fvcks.

[Ross-Kemp]

I must admit, watching Skinner was hilarious

[Webbo]

We all know what Skinners like, self righteous old twat. Nobody really takes any notice of what he's says but when you compare the reaction to him calling Cameron dodgy and the fit of the vapours that some on here had when Corbyn got told to straighten his tie. It's all a bit silly.

[Alf Bentley]

We all know what Skinners like, self righteous old twat. Nobody really takes any notice of what he's says but when you compare the reaction to him calling Cameron dodgy and the fit of the vapours that some on here had when Corbyn got told to straighten his tie. It's all a bit silly.

 

 

Maybe he's not an amusingly outdated old class warrior? Maybe he paid more attention to Alastair Campbell and Lynton Crosby than we thought? Maybe he's now a master of media manipulation?

 

It certainly did the Tories no harm promoting the lie that Gordon Brown's reckless spending caused the global financial crisis. Look at all the media coverage Skinner has got for his "dodgy Dave" soundbite. Media coverage that feeds on a fairly widespread perception, too.... If people or the press are still referring to "dodgy Dave" in a couple of months time, Denis will have to be nicknamed "Soundbite Skinner"! 

[Sharpe's Fox]

The Speaker knows what he's doing when he asks Skinner to speak. Dodgy Dave is probably fuming at Bercow because it'll probably be the one thing that comes out the whole palaver that people will remember.

[Bellend Sebastian]

I think he was just bored and wanted to go and get a sandwich.

 

I can relate to that

[Guest MattP]

Skinner probably wanted to get to the bar early, the silly old fool still obviously hasn't got the memo from Jezza about the new nicer kinder politics where we don't throw insults.

To be fair Cameron called him Jurassic Park and a dinosaur last year so I hope he can take "dodgy with a bit of a laugh.

[RobHawk]

Look at the passion on his face though! It may not be nice, but at least he's prepared to say what he thinks and he clearly means it. 

 

Given all the schoolboy antics in the HOC, it seems remarkable you can get ejected for calling someone dodgy though! The opposition parties will be all over #dodgyDave

[Alf Bentley]

Cameron's claim that the Blairmore investment fund was offshore not to avoid tax but to allow for "dollar-denominated" investment makes me laugh.

 

Surely the City of London could arrange dollar-denominated investments? I'm pretty sure that Wall Street could do so - they do still use the dollar in the US, don't they?

 

Instead, to set up his dollar-denominated fund, Cameron's Dad based it in Panama but ran it out of the Bahamas, with occasional trips to Switzerland. Presumably he was unaware that these were all tax havens. This was just a coincidence. The only thing that mattered was that they allowed dollar-denominated investment funds......  

 

It seems that there was zero corporation tax / income tax payable on such funds in Panama. So they avoided the tax payable by UK-based investment funds, using their offshore status to compete unfairly with UK investment funds and make higher profits. Pretty unpatriotic, apart from anything else.

 

Cameron himself doesn't seem to have done anything illegal. He paid UK income tax on his investment earnings (though it's a nice coincidence that he was just under the threshold for payment of capital gains tax). Presumably, though, his earnings were higher because he chose to invest in his father's legal tax avoidance.....despite which he got on his high horse denigrating others for different forms of tax avoidance. He's yet to explain where all his other investments were based, either.

 

Yes, earning thousands from such tax avoidance is legal, whereas misclaiming a few hundred in benefits is a crime.....but who makes those laws?

 

As for the plaintive cry "there's nothing wrong with passing on money to help your family".... True, but if you avoid tax on it, you are obtaining money for your family that should have been available to other families via higher public spending or lower UK tax. 

[Guest MattP]

Look at the passion on his face though! It may not be nice, but at least he's prepared to say what he thinks and he clearly means it. 

 

Given all the schoolboy antics in the HOC, it seems remarkable you can get ejected for calling someone dodgy though! The opposition parties will be all over #dodgyDave

 

Hopefully, I want him gone as quick as possible now, the EU leaflet charade was the last straw for me.

 

He's becoming a liability to the Tories now anyway, sooner we see the back of him and bring in Boris or Gove the better, I hope the backbenchers are learning the lesson from the opposition of what will happen when you leave alone a dead duck as leader.

[Alf Bentley]

Hopefully, I want him gone as quick as possible now, the EU leaflet charade was the last straw for me.

 

He's becoming a liability to the Tories now anyway, sooner we see the back of him and bring in Boris or Gove the better, I hope the backbenchers are learning the lesson from the opposition of what will happen when you leave alone a dead duck as leader.

 

 

I don't disagree*, but a lot will have changed by the next election: Cameron will have gone by then, probably Corbyn too, and the EU referendum will have caused an earthquake, whichever way the vote goes.

 

I do think that Cameron's current problems will be beneficial to Brexit campaigners, though. If trust in him, as de facto leader of the "remain" campaign is damaged, that's bound to benefit the Brexit camp. I've just posted links to a couple of good articles about that in the EU referendum thread.

 

Mind you, maybe some investigative journalist will get hold of Farage's tax return. I note that he has said that he won't be publishing it..... Now that would be an interesting document to see, and possibly one harmful to the Brexit camp.

 

* [Rapid edit! While I agree with the rest of your analysis, I don't share your desire to see Boris or Gove in No. 10, you'll be astonished to hear. ].

[RobHawk]

I don't disagree*, but a lot will have changed by the next election: Cameron will have gone by then, probably Corbyn too, and the EU referendum will have caused an earthquake, whichever way the vote goes.

 

I do think that Cameron's current problems will be beneficial to Brexit campaigners, though. If trust in him, as de facto leader of the "remain" campaign is damaged, that's bound to benefit the Brexit camp. I've just posted links to a couple of good articles about that in the EU referendum thread.

 

Mind you, maybe some investigative journalist will get hold of Farage's tax return. I note that he has said that he won't be publishing it..... Now that would be an interesting document to see, and possibly one harmful to the Brexit camp.

 

* [Rapid edit! While I agree with the rest of your analysis, I don't share your desire to see Boris or Gove in No. 10, you'll be astonished to hear. ].

 

I overheard the news as i was getting ready this morning, I'm not sure which tory politician they were commenting on (i think it was IDS), he'd basically said something along the lines of its a dangerous game for politicians to publish tax returns and shouldn't become common place. My immediate reaction was - what's he got to hide? 

 

I do think this is going to rumble on a while yet! 

[Guest MattP]

Really? I thought you would be up for it.

 

Regarding Farage I'm completely lost on the whole desire to see tax returns anyway, they all do it, I couldn't really care less. All it will tell us is if they received any extra income, if the money in hidden in a dodgy way they it won't appear on the tax return anyway.

 

Cameron has received all sorts of payments for speeches made abroad that won't appear on his tax return, Corbyn made a significant amount of income from offshore sources, he's declared £5,000 in payments from Press TV, the Iranian state television channel, and another £5,000 from Al-Jazeera, the Doha-based Qatar-backed channel.

 

I'm just reading about Blackrock UK propery fund, based offshore (for tax reasons I'd imagine), this is a company used by parliament to manage pension schemes so it appears everyone in the house is now going to be in receipt of some dodgy cash.

[Alf Bentley]

Blair's tax returns would make for interesting reading, too, with all the financial pies he's got his finger in....peace envoy, high-cost public speaker, houses bought for family etc.

 

As you say, though, the truly dodgy stuff won't be appearing in anybody's tax return. However, there might be clues or discrepancies in them that would allow good-quality investigative journalists to uncover stuff. That will probably take weeks, if not months, though.

[Guest MattP]

Blair's tax returns would make for interesting reading, too, with all the financial pies he's got his finger in....peace envoy, high-cost public speaker, houses bought for family etc.

 

When you can earn upto £200,000 for a single speaking engagement I imagine he'll be doing quite nicely.

[Rincewind]

Let's be honest, as a MP you would be savvy to all the best ways to hide extra cash. When not in the commons they all drink at the bar and piss in the same urinals (not the women)  in the commons toilets where they compare notes. 

And who has not been a little late in filling out a tax form.

 

We were talking about this last night and someone said if you are going to fiddle taxes do it for a large amount as there are more ways of not being caught. A small time self employed plumber or decorator would soon be found out if they missed something off.