Guest MattP Posted 27 September 2016 Posted 27 September 2016 12 minutes ago, Finnegan said: I wouldn't mind betting that a lot more non voters are massively apolitical and couldn't tell you the difference between left and right wing TBH. I agree with that, although the first time we saw a large rise in turnout to see many non voters engaging in the political process this year it certainly appeared they were anti-immigration and anti-establishment, where they would fall in an election though is anyones guess. I know UKIP did very well in 2015 with people who had never voted before. Back to the conference today's Daily Politics is worth a watch, two car crash interviews for the price of one with Shami Chakrabati and Diane Abbott, the former bundling her way through defending the anti-semitism whitewash and refusing to answer questions on her peerage and the latter again having been found to be smearing everyone who disagrees with her as racist, people like this are just as culpable as Corbyn and McDonnell for the poll ratings and public perception of Labour. One hilarious moment where Shami urges Andrew Neil to read her report and he replies with a very curt "Of course I have read it, that's my job"
Finnegan Posted 27 September 2016 Posted 27 September 2016 That's because most of the newspapers they read made it very clear that ten million gang rapist, job stealing, mass murdering, benefit claiming immigrants would invade the country like a pagan Viking mob if they didn't go and vote leave. Powerful thing, the press. I mean, the "liberals" get all uppity and call the uneducated leave voters racist for wanting out but I'd say they were making a pretty ****ing sensible decision given what they'd read in the Sun. Shit. If I read that stuff daily and believed half of it, I'd have been over at the tunnel myself standing guard with a shotgun.
Guest MattP Posted 27 September 2016 Posted 27 September 2016 Just now, Finnegan said: That's because most of the newspapers they read made it very clear that ten million gang rapist, job stealing, mass murdering, benefit claiming immigrants would invade the country like a pagan Viking mob if they didn't go and vote leave. Powerful thing, the press. Or maybe they just saw migration of 300,000+ (mostly unskilled that effects wages and the lower end of the job market) a year alongside a government unable to fill it's promise of bringing it into the tens of thousands and realised that a open border to the whole of Europe isn't sustainable for anyone who wants to have a sensible migration policy without the absurd numbers we have been taking in this century.
Guest MattP Posted 27 September 2016 Posted 27 September 2016 6 minutes ago, Finnegan said: I mean, the "liberals" get all uppity and call the uneducated leave voters racist for wanting out but I'd say they were making a pretty ****ing sensible decision given what they'd read in the Sun. Shit. If I read that stuff daily and believed half of it, I'd have been over at the tunnel myself standing guard with a shotgun. No idea on that, I never read The Sun.
Finnegan Posted 27 September 2016 Posted 27 September 2016 1 minute ago, MattP said: Or maybe they just saw migration of 300,000+ (mostly unskilled that effects wages and the lower end of the job market) a year alongside a government unable to fill it's promise of bringing it into the tens of thousands and realised that a open border to the whole of Europe isn't sustainable for anyone who wants to have a sensible migration policy without the absurd numbers we have been taking in this century. You've got more faith in the average non-voter than I do. For the record, I'm not arguing the point itself, just bemoaning the drivel propaganda you get in the press. It goes both ways, I'm sure there's lefty rags that annoy you. But there's no denying that the Sun has a pretty overpowering market share.
Guest MattP Posted 27 September 2016 Posted 27 September 2016 40 minutes ago, Finnegan said: You've got more faith in the average non-voter than I do. For the record, I'm not arguing the point itself, just bemoaning the drivel propaganda you get in the press. It goes both ways, I'm sure there's lefty rags that annoy you. But there's no denying that the Sun has a pretty overpowering market share. I think it's overplayed these days, I still refuse to believe most people judge their votes on what a newspaper tells them, the Sun's cirulation is around 1.5 million now, which is a tiny fraction of the nation and I very much doubt most of it's readership buys it for the politics. Brexit was won in the Shires anyway, despite places like Hartlepool and Sunderland, Labour voters were 65-35 in favour of staying across the country, Tories the virtual opposite and you don't see many copies of the Sun around Rothley or Newton Abbot. There are no lefty rags that annoy me either, anyone who gets wound up by a newspaper should get a life, if they are peddling things that are so untue it's pretty easy these days to sue them for libel. Unfortunately for the remainers, most of the "hate" being peddled about the organisation had considerable truth to it and that's why it was impossible to expose it (Calais jungle springs to mind, something we were told was a right wing media myth for years by the left), most news items these days are accompanied with a video of it, you can't fool people anymore. Sun readers were only 58-42 according to Yougov, so given the circulation number and a win for leave of 1.4million, it had no effect whatsoever on the result. Basically if The Sun was telling people that unless they voted leave ten million gang rapist, job stealing, mass murdering, benefit claiming immigrants would invade the country like a pagan Viking mob then they didn't do a great job of it given more than 40% of it's readership voted for ten million gang rapist, job stealing, mass murdering, benefit claiming immigrants to invade the country like a pagan Viking mob.
Footballwipe Posted 27 September 2016 Posted 27 September 2016 Think I've mentioned this before, but it's worth putting again, and again, and again, because Aaron Sorkin nailed it in the opening scene of "The Newsroom" and I think it does and will ring true on a national scale for anyone who leans in the direction as Corbyn... Quote You know why people don't like liberals? Because they lose. If liberals are so ****in' smart, how come they lose so goddamn always? Tories are in power until about 2025, maybe 2030 depending on the mess JC leaves behind. I've got no intention of voting for them whilst he's in his position. I will not vote for the leader of a cult.
Guest MattP Posted 27 September 2016 Posted 27 September 2016 15 minutes ago, Footballwipe said: Tories are in power until about 2025, maybe 2030 depending on the mess JC leaves behind. I've got no intention of voting for them whilst he's in his position. I will not vote for the leader of a cult. Something I noticed from the coverage of the conference is the merchandise they are all wearing, it's all Corbyn T-shirts everywhere, nothing is about "Labour" anymore. It really a cult based around one man rather than a political party.
Captain... Posted 27 September 2016 Posted 27 September 2016 Labour have ballsed this up right royally, they have spent a year infighting and are not even back to square 1, they are further behind then when they elected JC in the first place. They have given the Corbynistas the perfect excuse to continue to support him (he has had to spend so much time and energy fighting his own party he hasn't been able to form a proper opposition). Entrenched views get more entrenched and divisions become wider. A fully backed Corbyn could have been different, he could have been more successful, or he could have been just as bad. If they had waited a couple of years for the coup when they were miles behind in the polls with an election 2 years away instead of 4 then they would probably have been more successful. I guess brexit was a game changer. Question now is: Who is going to be the first to quit the Labour party and force a by-election, will they do it as an independent, join another party (Green, Lib Dem) or form a new party?
Finnegan Posted 27 September 2016 Posted 27 September 2016 **** me, I picked on the wrong paper. Look at that, Express readers.
Captain... Posted 27 September 2016 Posted 27 September 2016 1 hour ago, MattP said: I think it's overplayed these days, I still refuse to believe most people judge their votes on what a newspaper tells them, the Sun's cirulation is around 1.5 million now, which is a tiny fraction of the nation and I very much doubt most of it's readership buys it for the politics. Brexit was won in the Shires anyway, despite places like Hartlepool and Sunderland, Labour voters were 65-35 in favour of staying across the country, Tories the virtual opposite and you don't see many copies of the Sun around Rothley or Newton Abbot. There are no lefty rags that annoy me either, anyone who gets wound up by a newspaper should get a life, if they are peddling things that are so untue it's pretty easy these days to sue them for libel. Unfortunately for the remainers, most of the "hate" being peddled about the organisation had considerable truth to it and that's why it was impossible to expose it (Calais jungle springs to mind, something we were told was a right wing media myth for years by the left), most news items these days are accompanied with a video of it, you can't fool people anymore. Sun readers were only 58-42 according to Yougov, so given the circulation number and a win for leave of 1.4million, it had no effect whatsoever on the result. Basically if The Sun was telling people that unless they voted leave ten million gang rapist, job stealing, mass murdering, benefit claiming immigrants would invade the country like a pagan Viking mob then they didn't do a great job of it given more than 40% of it's readership voted for ten million gang rapist, job stealing, mass murdering, benefit claiming immigrants to invade the country like a pagan Viking mob. 28% of UKIP voters voted to remain?
Webbo Posted 27 September 2016 Posted 27 September 2016 The Express backed Blair 20 years ago and lost readership because of it. Ever since they've been a characature of the Mail trying to get some of that readership back. Its a terrible paper because the writers are so OTT because they dont really believe what they are writing or understand their readership.
Darkon84 Posted 27 September 2016 Posted 27 September 2016 16 minutes ago, Webbo said: The Express backed Blair 20 years ago and lost readership because of it. Ever since they've been a characature of the Mail trying to get some of that readership back. Its a terrible paper because the writers are so OTT because they dont really believe what they are writing or understand their readership. As epitomised by their so-called 'journalist' Nathon Rao, who, as much as I hate the phrase, is genuinely stealing a living. He writes about 3 stories per year, each one of them a re-hash of the year before, even bragging that he's had 200 front pages due to his weather stories. Just let that sink in. TWO HUNDRED FRONT PAGES ABOUT THE FVCKING WEATHER!......BRITISH HEATWAVE SET TO BE HOTTER THAN THE SUN! (Insert heatmap showing lots of red.jpeg) .......BRITAIN BRACED FOR FIERCEST SNOWSTORMS SINCE RECORDS BEGAN............and so on and so forth....Fvck off you smug, greasy nob! EDIT: He was even at today! I rest my case. God I despise that man. http://www.express.co.uk/news/weather/714262/UK-snow-long-range-weather-forecast-cold-winter-2016-Britain-freeze
Benji Posted 27 September 2016 Posted 27 September 2016 30 minutes ago, Captain... said: 28% of UKIP voters voted to remain? was going to post the same thing.
Guest MattP Posted 27 September 2016 Posted 27 September 2016 49 minutes ago, Finnegan said: **** me, I picked on the wrong paper. Look at that, Express readers. As a couple of others have mentioned, the most bizarre thing was that 28% of UKIP voters going for remain, that pretty much proves a lot of the electorate just haven't got a clue what they are voting for. 41 minutes ago, Webbo said: The Express backed Blair 20 years ago and lost readership because of it. Ever since they've been a characature of the Mail trying to get some of that readership back. Its a terrible paper because the writers are so OTT because they dont really believe what they are writing or understand their readership. I read a copy in the doctor's a while back, it's absolutely laughable to be honest, hopeless. The only papers worth parting with money with these days if you want good political investigative journalism are The Times, the Mail on Sunday and Private Eye, it's no wonder they are about the only three publications in the market that buck the trend and aren't seeing huge drops in circulation. I would have whacked the Guardian in a few years back but I can't take a paper seriously anymore that goes for clickbait and gives regular columns to Frankie Boyle and Russell Brand.
bovril Posted 27 September 2016 Posted 27 September 2016 I'm staggered 34% of Daily 'Romanians next door killed Diana' Express readers voted in.
Alf Bentley Posted 28 September 2016 Posted 28 September 2016 Seems like there were some cracking, if unsubtle conference speeches today... - Tom Watson stressing the need to win elections and that the Blair/Brown governments did some good stuff in power (let's forget the bad stuff, for a moment). Jeremy looked a little awkward as he listened. - Sadiq Khan bullishly highlighting the need to win power in local/mayoral elections in 2017, and in a general election if one is called. In interview, he raises a good array of popular issues - including pro-business attitudes, alongside public services, affordable housing, employment rights and the rest. He used the words "win power" 38 times in his speech, apparently....probably still not enough to penetrate some skulls, though. - Even Leicester's own Mr. Ashworth, who'd make a good poker player, studiously presenting himself as a middle-ground unity man....while stressing the need to focus on....you guessed it......winning power and elections like in the past.... Doesn't change the fact that the leadership and grassroots are currently controlled by people who haven't got a clue about gaining or exercising power, and don't even seem interested in that. But it can't do any harm to have a well-coordinated series of strong voices speaking up, even if the need to win power should be obvious. Of course, some power and influence in parliament can be exercised even when you've lost an election, if the Govt is seriously divided and has only a tiny majority. On the terms of Brexit, grammar schools, NHS/care funding, tax avoidance...there are plenty of areas where Labour could exert influence, win public support and make life tough for the Tories if they get their act together. I hope some of these politicians with a brain will do just that, as I can't see Corbyn & co doing anything but playing to their crowd and reciting a disorganised, unfocused bucket list of utopian dreams.
Guest MattP Posted 28 September 2016 Posted 28 September 2016 I'm no fan of Tom Watson, I think he abused his parlimentary privledge terribly to further his own career when he took it upon himself to be the nonce finder general but his speech really was barnstorming. It was everything that the Labour movement had achieved and achieved sucessfully over a number of years whilst winning, it was quite surreal to watch him being heckled whilst doing it. The image of the standing ovation whilst Jeremy Corbyn sat there with his hands behind his side was something else. A lot of the members on the JC4PM page are calling for him to be deselected now.
Guest MattP Posted 28 September 2016 Posted 28 September 2016 Corbyn speech is set to include calls for more immigration according to Stephen Kinnock, surely even he can't be that stupid?
Webbo Posted 28 September 2016 Posted 28 September 2016 2 minutes ago, MattP said: Corbyn speech is set to include calls for more immigration according to Stephen Kinnock, surely even he can't be that stupid? Is that a rhetorical question?
Rincewind Posted 28 September 2016 Posted 28 September 2016 You may be right Alf. I hope they have finally woken up and do actually focus on winning the next election They do not have to agree with Corbyn on everything just disagree with the Tories more. That is what the party in opposition is supposed to do. It is not rocket science. If they had done this in the last five or six years maybe we would not have Corbyn as their leader now. There are a lot of disillusioned people out there who feel let down by Labour and politics in general. Corbyn has revived the interest and hope back, regardless of how 'electable' he may or not be.
Guest MattP Posted 29 September 2016 Posted 29 September 2016 Two big decisions already for Corbyn with regards to anti-semitism. 1. Deputy of Momentum managed to offend the Jewish membership again by wrongly assuming Holocaust memorial day isn't open to others and criticising Jewish schools needing security just a few months after being suspended for comments about Jews and the Slave Trade - https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/28/momentum-vice-chair-jackie-walker-pressure-resign-antisemitism-row-jewish-labour-movement 2. George Galloway is now ready to rejoin the Labour party - Quote George Galloway Verified account @georgegalloway After 36 years and 3 parliamentary victories I was expelled by Tony Blair over the Iraq War. I refuse to be quiet. I must be reinstated. How he handles these will go a long way to seeing whether the words in his speech were worth the paper Seuman Milne wrote them on.
Guest MattP Posted 30 September 2016 Posted 30 September 2016 Rod Liddle sums up in about 70 seconds the biggest problem Labour has and doesn't seem interested anymore in addressing.
Guest MattP Posted 5 October 2016 Posted 5 October 2016 On 9/29/2016 at 11:46, MattP said: Two big decisions already for Corbyn with regards to anti-semitism. 1. Deputy of Momentum managed to offend the Jewish membership again by wrongly assuming Holocaust memorial day isn't open to others and criticising Jewish schools needing security just a few months after being suspended for comments about Jews and the Slave Trade - https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/28/momentum-vice-chair-jackie-walker-pressure-resign-antisemitism-row-jewish-labour-movement https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/03/momentums-vice-chair-removed-antisemitism-row-jackie-walker Jackie Walker removed as vice chair but remains on the committee and in the party. As expected, Corbyn's promise for zero tolerance on anti-semitism are as hollow as his promises about a lot of things.
Guest Sharpe's Fox Posted 6 October 2016 Posted 6 October 2016 Dianne Abbott as Home Secretary kinell even I can't stand her. Disaster of an appointment.
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