Why England are so poor - a massive rant

[Ed25]

5 players from the same team, reasonably successful (3rd isn't a bad season)team. There should be chemistry there.

 

 

Spurs are not a great team, and they - along with Liverpool - are no where near good enough to form half our squad. There should be chemistry - yes. But like I said, they need winners - that they are not

 

3rd place in a two horse race. And 3rd last season is far from a great season. Look at English clubs in Europe, we are no where near where we were 10 years ago. The best players in world football have had no interest in coming here since Ronaldo left

[Father Ted]

It was evidently clear from the outset how Hodgson had planned to go about this - build a core team around failure ridden Spurs players and to select his beloved Liverpool contingent.

 

It was clear the moment that he said that Andy Carroll doesn't feature in his plans despite late form - then blindly takes Rashford.

 

It was clear when he stated that he would only take 2 out of Dier, Drinkwater and Wilshere as all 3 can play the holding role in his poor system. Evidently, Drinkwater would always get the cut as 1) he doesn't play for Spurs and 2) isn't a golden boy.

 

It was clear this would end in disaster when he stated that the players that got him through qualifying deserved the chance over "form" players. Imagine France not having took Kante or Payet after the seasons they've had. Incredible.

 

He had no solution to the set piece crisis. Players like Henderson and Milner offered nothing at all to the squad. His systems were incompetent, sticking with a 4-3-3 when he only took 1 winger (I call him a winger but on his showing at the Euros the only wing he will be seeing soon is a paedophile prison wing with his touch). Having Eric Dier as a deep lying playmaker against the likes of Slovakia and first half against Iceland was purely embarrassing. I read again today how the FA want England to have a system throughout grass roots and into the first team. Again, all this "system" nonsense, how many of those players play a 4-3-3 that way at club level, or even the 4-4-2 diamond for that matter? None.

 

Players like Cresswell, Antonio, Drinkwater, Noble (albeit further back in the pecking order), Defoe, Carroll, Townsend/Albrighton, Simpson should all have been at that tournament. Perennial bottlers and failures should be ousted and replaced with energetic, ambitious, forward thinking players who give us a variety of options in terms of systems and tactics we can play.

[Mike Oxlong]

Mathematically the original post equates to one half of a standard Thracian post.

[m4DD0gg]

 

English players are weak... we think we are making them men but we're creating babies

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-3664847/JAMIE-CARRAGHER-S-DAMNING-VERDICT-English-players-weak-think-making-men-creating-babies.html#ixzz4CzX0TdHp 

 

 

What did he ever do for england...oh yeh feck all. 

 

England are an abomination but it makes me laugh when ex players like him come out giving it some when they were equally as gash.

[Captain...]

My theory is there are two main reason:

1) No winners

2) No chemistry

These two conflate...let me explain

 

1) No winners - Our squad: 1 Leicester; 2 Man City; 2 Southampton; 1 Burnley; 5 Spurs; 1 Chelsea; 5 Liverpool; 3 Man Utd; 2 Everton; 1 Arsenal 

1 Premier League winner, 8 top four sides who were 10 points off the race, 4 (Chelsea and Utd) who play for underachieving big clubs; 10 (Southampton, Burnley, Liverpool, Everton) who play for irrelevant sides who would be delighted with a top 6-8 finish and a cup semi-final every other year.

 

How do you expect a squad with no (1) winners to be able to go and win a tournament with some of the finest players in world football? Against players who win with ease and dominate week in week out.

 

2) No chemistry - Whilst I do not agree with all Roy's decisions, I think there is only so much an international manager can do considering how much time the players spend together. 

 

Look at the best teams in Europe....Germany: how many of their team does not currently or at least some point play for Munich? Neuer, Kimmich, Boateng, Hummels, Kroos, Gotze, Muller, Gomez - just the seven off the top of my head. Spain: how many players play for Barca or Madrid? Ramos, Pique, Alba, Busequets, Fabregas, Iniesta, Morata - again, seven starters off the top of my head. Even Italy, their defence of Buffon, Barzagli, Chiellini and Bonnuci play for Juventus week in week out.

 

So you put a group of players together with no winning mentality, who never play together other than the couple of weeks a year they have an international camp, and shock horror...they win nothing. 

 

Yes, Madrid, Barca, Munich, and Juve are huge clubs and you have to be great to play with them, but guess what, we have those clubs too. Not long ago Chelsea had Terry, Lampard, Ashley Cole, and even Joe Cole to some extent. United had Scholes, Rio, Neville, Beckham, Rooney. I contend that it is no surprise whatsoever that since clubs such as United and Chelsea have taken a huge nose dive, as has the national team. More so United; they are our only global superpower, and since Fergie left look what has happened to not only them, but the Premier League, and English football in general. 

 

Coincidence? I think not...

 

Feel free to disagree

 

I think that is simplifying it, look at Iceland, Wales, Portugal, Poland all of them have players plying their trade for different clubs at different levels in different countries, with the exception of a few, Ronaldo, Lewandowski, Bale none of them are winners. Yet they are all still having a successful tournament whilst we got knocked out by Iceland, Spain have also gone home, although to an excellent performance from Italy they also lost to Croatia. 

 

I would say a bigger issue was Hodgson's inability to pick players to do the job he wanted them to do and the fact the jobs he wanted them to do completely nullified their strengths.

[Christoph]

Totally agree with you and I thought your point about advertising/large companies having an influence to be quite interesting. 

[Ed25]

I think that is simplifying it, look at Iceland, Wales, Portugal, Poland all of them have players plying their trade for different clubs at different levels in different countries, with the exception of a few, Ronaldo, Lewandowski, Bale none of them are winners. Yet they are all still having a successful tournament whilst we got knocked out by Iceland, Spain have also gone home, although to an excellent performance from Italy they also lost to Croatia. 

 

I would say a bigger issue was Hodgson's inability to pick players to do the job he wanted them to do and the fact the jobs he wanted them to do completely nullified their strengths.

 

 

Is it though? For me, these countries are again, not 'winners'. But Iceland, Wales, and Poland to some extent (they are better than the previous two) can draw on the fact they are not 'winners'. A lot of the players are no where near the top of the game and still have the drive to get there.

 

Compare that with England who other than Bale and Lewandowski are probably man for man better than the 3 teams above, the players think they have completed. They have the fame, the money, the wife, the kids (maybe), the house. They are settled for being very good. They have settled to being nearly 'winners'. Not what a dominant German or Spanish side would do.

[Captain...]

Is it though? For me, these countries are again, not 'winners'. But Iceland, Wales, and Poland to some extent (they are better than the previous two) can draw on the fact they are not 'winners'. A lot of the players are no where near the top of the game and still have the drive to get there.

 

Compare that with England who other than Bale and Lewandowski are probably man for man better than the 3 teams above, the players think they have completed. They have the fame, the money, the wife, the kids (maybe), the house. They are settled for being very good. They have settled to being nearly 'winners'. Not what a dominant German or Spanish side would do.

 

I think it is more of a reality vs their own over inflated egos, and that was most clearly displayed against Slovakia when Roy made 6 changes and we played with no real purpose and expected to breeze past Slovakia.

 

As a country we are not winners, but we have the arrogance to think we are better than other teams and you are probably right man for man we are better than half the teams still in the competition, but Leicester fans should know better than any others that team work and unity is better than individual talent and it is the arrogance of clubs like Arsenal, United, Chelsea, Man City even Liverpool and Spurs that runs through the whole England set-up.

 

Hodgson went into the tournament quoting an attacking mindset and dismissed the clear defensive frailties as part of his attacking philosophy, this is tournament football, you must not lose or you are out. His persistence with a woeful Sterling because of his £50m price tag is again further evidence of the belief that we have great players and we just need to put them on the pitch and they will be too good for Iceland, Slovakia, Russia. Hodgson was using the Iceland game to try and play Sterling into form, because there was nobody else in the squad who was actually comfortable playing that role, he had left Townsend and Walcott at home and we had zero width, zero urgency and zero creativity from the flanks. Just a woeful Sterling or a lost Sturridge or Vardy.

 

I agree that we have no chemistry, but that is not because they don't play together at club level it is because they don't play together at international level, there is no team work or sense of togetherness, it is all individuals thinking for themselves, either too scared to make a mistake or too arrogant to knuckle down and work hard.

 

If Iceland can get a team of Championship standard players to function as a unit, with just as little time together as England's overpaid bunch of "man for man better" players, then we have no excuses for sloppy mistake ridden directionless games the like we have seen all tournament.

[MrSpaM]

Just look at any of the advertising or endorsements involving players from the England squad. It seems like they already knew who was going to the euros before Hodgson had even announced the squad, it's all very suspicious.

[orangecity23]

This tournament has shown up that we have no excuses. Forget the players "not being good enough", when teams like Iceland, Wales and others are doing well, we can't blame our lack of Messi quality players. We simply are not an organised, cohesive team, and there is no excuse for that. Hodgson was paid 5 million a year, and turned up to the tournament still pissing about with new formations, lineups, and trying to turn Rooney into a midfielder. He's the managerial equivalent of the kid who is doing his homework 5 minutes before the lesson starts. Chris Coleman shows up with the same players he's had for years, playing the same formation they've played for years, and lo and behold, they are doing a good job because they are organised and know what they are doing.

 

If England had showed up with Sam Allardyce in charge, playing a Leicester style 4-4-1-1, with a team of:

 

Forster

Simpson    Cahill     Smalling    Cresswell

Townsend    Drinkwater    Noble   Albrighton

        Deeney    Vardy

 

We would have looked a million times better than we have in this tournament. The OP is right about England being too obsessed with big names. What we need is an actual tactical plan, and the gumption to pick players who fit the plan, know the plan, and fit well together each other on the pitch. Allardyce isn't someone I particularly rate, but these days, Englands pressing need is to take an disorganised shambles with some decent players in it, and turn into some form of coherent functioning team, and since he managed to sort out that dreadful mess of a Sunderland team, he'd be pretty well suited to straightening out the current omnishambles IMO.

[SystonFox]

Nivea skincare pick our starting xi. Fvcking internet I'm done for today

[Dan]

the thing is we missed out on a chance of losing to france in the quarter finals. we would all have accept that.

 

it would have been interesting, no one would give us a hope of beating them but we would see what hodgsons team could do against opposition that dont stick 11 men behind the ball all game.

 

we were denied that opportunity, not by portugal, belgium or croatia, but mother fúcking iceland

 

if we're to go down the road of having realistic expectations of the national side, this tournament was shaping up nicely until monday's debacle.

 

why did that happen?

 

it must be because the players had lost respect for hodgson but why did they lose respect for themselves?

 

this leads me to the conclusion the players are weak and pathetic.

 

That for me is part of the problem. There was nothing acceptable what so ever about our display in this tournament and I'm not just talking about the Iceland game either. The level of our football was dismal and if we couldn't see past that just because France (who've not actually been that great themselves) saw us off it would be very disappointing.

 

I think we needed this Iceland result. We've been underwhelming for years but underwhelming has turned to undeniable embarrassment. When underwhelming there wasn't enough of a desire to really change something fundamental in the English game, being embarrassed like we were on Monday has got to be the catalyst for change, it just HAS to be, the FA cannot possibly sit back and let things go on like this. Our decline's been exposed. For me, this is what Germany were when we beat them 1-5 - they completely re-assessed, and have since that game been the most consistent international side in the world. OK, I don't expect us to turn into Germany overnight, but I expect us to at least try.

 

The next year will be very, very telling for England. I'm intrigued as much as anything.

[Dan]

Totally agree - this is what I was getting at when I said we need to "copy" these Countries but I just got ridiculed.

 

I think it's more about adopting a similar blueprint. Not absolutely every aspect obviously, but clearly having a better system from the top that feeds down. What we've done is tried to play like Spain & Germany to 'get with the times', Hodgson got fooled into thinking we were good at it because we beat teams like Switzerland, Slovenia, Estonia and Lithuania in qualifying and unsurprisingly we've come unstuck when it's come to the real thing, against properly organised sides.

[purpleronnie]

 

 

I think we needed this Iceland result. We've been underwhelming for years but underwhelming has turned to undeniable embarrassment. When underwhelming there wasn't enough of a desire to really change something fundamental in the English game, being embarrassed like we were on Monday has got to be the catalyst for change, it just HAS to be, the FA cannot possibly sit back and let things go on like this.

 

 

People said the same thing when we failed to qualify for Euro 2008, nothing changed.

[m4DD0gg]

People said the same thing when we failed to qualify for Euro 2008, nothing changed.

 

Try 94 and after that mess we got El Tel who most certainly was not a yes man but was forced to resign post tournament to concentrate on a legal case.

[Dan]

People said the same thing when we failed to qualify for Euro 2008, nothing changed.

 

Which is what worries me. There can be absolutely no excuse for no changes this time around though. We have literally lost to the smallest country to ever qualify for a major tournament. We won't top that in my lifetime.

[Wymsey]

So with us out the EU now, I guess only football competition England/Wales etc can play in is just the World Cup - and not allowed to participate in any more Euro competitions?

Hope we don't do a 'Home Nations' tournament, having to play Scotland and NI.

[Fox92]

So with us out the EU now, I guess only football competition England/Wales etc can play in is just the World Cup - and not allowed to participate in any more Euro competitions?

Hope we don't do a 'Home Nations' tournament, having to play Scotland and NI.

 

Leaving the EU doesn't affect football competitions.

 

Turkey aren't in the EU are they? 

[Finnaldo]

Leaving the EU doesn't affect football competitions.

 

Turkey aren't in the EU are they? 

 

Or Russia.

[Dan]

So with us out the EU now, I guess only football competition England/Wales etc can play in is just the World Cup - and not allowed to participate in any more Euro competitions?

Hope we don't do a 'Home Nations' tournament, having to play Scotland and NI.

 

nice try

[Guest]

Which is what worries me. There can be absolutely no excuse for no changes this time around though. We have literally lost to the smallest country to ever qualify for a major tournament. We won't top that in my lifetime.

Never over-underestimate England.

[Dan]

Never over-underestimate England.

 

Even I've managed to do that this time around.

[fuchsntf]

I think it is more of a reality vs their own over inflated egos, and that was most clearly displayed against Slovakia when Roy made 6 changes and we played with no real purpose and expected to breeze past Slovakia.

As a country we are not winners, but we have the arrogance to think we are better than other teams and you are probably right man for man we are better than half the teams still in the competition, but Leicester fans should know better than any others that team work and unity is better than individual talent and it is the arrogance of clubs like Arsenal, United, Chelsea, Man City even Liverpool and Spurs that runs through the whole England set-up.

Hodgson went into the tournament quoting an attacking mindset and dismissed the clear defensive frailties as part of his attacking philosophy, this is tournament football, you must not lose or you are out. His persistence with a woeful Sterling because of his £50m price tag is again further evidence of the belief that we have great players and we just need to put them on the pitch and they will be too good for Iceland, Slovakia, Russia. Hodgson was using the Iceland game to try and play Sterling into form, because there was nobody else in the squad who was actually comfortable playing that role, he had left Townsend and Walcott at home and we had zero width, zero urgency and zero creativity from the flanks. Just a woeful Sterling or a lost Sturridge or Vardy.

I agree that we have no chemistry, but that is not because they don't play together at club level it is because they don't play together at international level, there is no team work or sense of togetherness, it is all individuals thinking for themselves, either too scared to make a mistake or too arrogant to knuckle down and work hard.

If Iceland can get a team of Championship standard players to function as a unit, with just as little time together as England's overpaid bunch of "man for man better" players, then we have no excuses for sloppy mistake ridden directionless games the like we have seen all tournament.

So we have had the badluck of having players over 50 yrs with inflated egos....utter rubbish..

Every time, every tournament there is only one team who can win.

There will be teams who play above expectations others that slip under expectations.

There will still be more fans going home content, even when going home empty handed.

But Englands problems are press and fans always believe every year we belong to

the top and upper echolons.Fact is we aint an never was we are 2nd tier at best.

Eriksson, Robson(who lost to a rising Denmark), Venables, Capello, hadnt done bad jobs,

just not great ones...

Our press are the most spitefull, degenerate group of nastiness in International sport,

just ask and be with other foreign journalists.

Our players over these 50yrs, even under the managers named above were good even great at

stages, but in KOs not good enough.

Hodson when he came in, did his job, he knew time had called on his old and better players.

Without a dirth of talent bursting through, and only very avg defenders, he started to re-build.

Wilshere popped up, a breath of freshair, a few questionables started to show int.form.

We had good/not brilliant WC qualis.We had players like Townsend, Sturridge showing

through, with inklings of talent.

Like Walcott before them, our younger potential top internationals,

started their career-injury paths. Positions we thought and hoped would secure a reasonable

international path.

Then this last 6 months what started out promising with a new ethos spreading through football,

Hodgson for some reason beknown only to him turned a blind eye to it.

Other international setups, did look up at England with a worrying frown and respect.

Then England blew it all apart with his selection, and lack of ideas in the friendly games.

What we had in inspiration game plans and actual skill potential at our feet, were blunted,

in end selection and team selection and players duties for 1st game.

Being promised and having the ingredients for a great cool knickerbokkerglory, we ended

With a walls 99 select with no flake or icecream.based on a tin of broken expensive buscuits.

This wasnt like the past, this was for once organised incompetence across the board.

The spirit was taken out of the players before a ball was kicked and even with 3

chances, he and his cronies couldnt see what they had ruined.

Any doubts, was the selection of Sterling, Sturridge and Wilshere, then giving Kane a

responsibility that should of been sorted before France soil was set on.

Hodgson didnt learn anything from the WCup disaster...Thats how to destroy players beliefs..

[Captain...]

So we have had the badluck of having players over 50 yrs with inflated egos....utter rubbish..

Every time, every tournament there is only one team who can win.

There will be teams who play above expectations others that slip under expectations.

There will still be more fans going home content, even when going home empty handed.

But Englands problems are press and fans always believe every year we belong to

the top and upper echolons.Fact is we aint an never was we are 2nd tier at best.

Eriksson, Robson(who lost to a rising Denmark), Venables, Capello, hadnt done bad jobs,

just not great ones...

Our press are the most spitefull, degenerate group of nastiness in International sport,

just ask and be with other foreign journalists.

Our players over these 50yrs, even under the managers named above were good even great at

stages, but in KOs not good enough.

Hodson when he came in, did his job, he knew time had called on his old and better players.

Without a dirth of talent bursting through, and only very avg defenders, he started to re-build.

Wilshere popped up, a breath of freshair, a few questionables started to show int.form.

We had good/not brilliant WC qualis.We had players like Townsend, Sturridge showing

through, with inklings of talent.

Like Walcott before them, our younger potential top internationals,

started their career-injury paths. Positions we thought and hoped would secure a reasonable

international path.

Then this last 6 months what started out promising with a new ethos spreading through football,

Hodgson for some reason beknown only to him turned a blind eye to it.

Other international setups, did look up at England with a worrying frown and respect.

Then England blew it all apart with his selection, and lack of ideas in the friendly games.

What we had in inspiration game plans and actual skill potential at our feet, were blunted,

in end selection and team selection and players duties for 1st game.

Being promised and having the ingredients for a great cool knickerbokkerglory, we sent

out a walls 99 select with no flake or icecream.based on a tin of broken expensive buscuits.

This wasnt like the past, this was for once organised incompetence across the board.

The spirit wasnt taken out of the players before a ball was kicked and even with 3

chances, he and his cronies couldnt see what they had ruined.

Any doubts, was the selection of Sterling, Sturridge and Wilshere, then giving Kane a

responsibility that should of been sorted before France soil was set on.

Hodgson didnt learn anything from the WCup disaster...Thsts how to destroy players beliefs..

 

It is not about winning tournaments it is consistently underperforming at tournaments, we were ranked 8th in the Fifa World Rankings before the Euros, only Portugal, Romania (WTF) Belgium and Germany were ranked higher than us at the Euros. I know the rankings are shit, but we went in as 5th highest ranked side, we played Wales (9) Slovakia (14) and 2 teams outside the top 20. Apart from Wales we failed to beat them.

 

At the World Cup we were awful at the previous Euros we were free from the burden of expectation and Andy Carroll and Danny Welbeck lead us to the last 8, that was passable.

 

This Euros it wasn't that we lost in the round of 16, it was the way we did it, the way we approached every game and the fact we didn't look like doing anything to alter the result against Slovakia and Iceland. We even cheered that we had ended up with Iceland rather than Portugal or Hungary FFS.

 

I'm not saying the press helps, but expectations were low, we didn't jump on them when we drew with Russia, but when you saw Slovakia and Wales take them apart with ease you realise how poor we were. The press has a job to do and they have to ask Roy why he made 6 changes for the Slovakia game, why there wasn't more urgency and why we failed.

 

The fans at the Slovakia game were superb in the stadium backing the lads from start to finish, I was genuinely impressed, but the players didn't respond to the fans. This poor performance has nothing to do with fans and press it is down to the mentality of the management and the players.

[fuchsntf]

It is not about winning tournaments it is consistently underperforming at tournaments, we were ranked 8th in the Fifa World Rankings before the Euros, only Portugal, Romania (WTF) Belgium and Germany were ranked higher than us at the Euros. I know the rankings are shit, but we went in as 5th highest ranked side, we played Wales (9) Slovakia (14) and 2 teams outside the top 20. Apart from Wales we failed to beat them.

 

At the World Cup we were awful at the previous Euros we were free from the burden of expectation and Andy Carroll and Danny Welbeck lead us to the last 8, that was passable.

 

This Euros it wasn't that we lost in the round of 16, it was the way we did it, the way we approached every game and the fact we didn't look like doing anything to alter the result against Slovakia and Iceland. We even cheered that we had ended up with Iceland rather than Portugal or Hungary FFS.

 

I'm not saying the press helps, but expectations were low, we didn't jump on them when we drew with Russia, but when you saw Slovakia and Wales take them apart with ease you realise how poor we were. The press has a job to do and they have to ask Roy why he made 6 changes for the Slovakia game, why there wasn't more urgency and why we failed.

 

The fans at the Slovakia game were superb in the stadium backing the lads from start to finish, I was genuinely impressed, but the players didn't respond to the fans. This poor performance has nothing to do with fans and press it is down to the mentality of the management and the players.

Dont actually disagree, but I do really believe Hodgson and coaching staff got it all wrong, and

the players were totally confused, on their own set up that Hodgson presented to them.