Conservative Leadership Poll & Chat 30/06/16

[Thracian]

You blamed Cannabis for his current state. I blame the Tory culture of aspiring.

 

UAE and all that.

 

 

 

Why should the effort of aspiring to anything, lead a person into the drugs culture? If I had to take a shot of guessing a possible cause I'd say it might be to do with parenting and the failing of some parents to encourage:- strong minds, the logic to make good choices, and an ability to maintain a sense of proportion.

 

I remember watching a female friend smoking and drinking from a pint glass. It was clear she wanted to feel at one with the group she mixed

with to play darts.

 

She hardly took a puff from the cigarettes but waited til the ash gathered and would flick it constantly into the ashtray. The cigarette was nothing but a social handle. Why? It's not necessary. And if it is - then change the friends 

[Thracian]

You've got the situation on public / state school background wrong - the argument used by most in this area is that going to a state school shouldn't be deemed a disadvantage for those who obtained the same grades as those attending a public school. This debate was purely about equality, not positive discrimination.

 

 

If the grades are/were subject to the same standard of assessment why would one ever be considered inferior to the other? 

[DJ Barry Hammond]

If the grades are/were subject to the same standard of assessment why would one ever be considered inferior to the other?

You're not that naive to think that 'connections' don't also play a big part in people's chances in this world are you?

The fact is, attending a well know fee paying school will attract a certain status for that individual and that was the issue that was trying to be addressed.

There were clear issues where the same or lower qualifications obtained from somewhere from Eton Grammer School were looked at as superior to those from Trumpton polytechnic.

That situation has subsided somewhat, but I've now doubt that kind of thinking still remains to some degree.

[Alf Bentley]

Ken Clarke and Malcom Rifkind unwittingly caught on camera, discussing the Tory leadership candidates (& Boris - and Thatcher!).

 

Hilarious and not very complimentary stuff. 

 

http://news.sky.com/story/1721982/watch-ken-clarke-ridicules-tory-candidates

[Guest MattP]

Ken Clarke and Malcom Rifkind unwittingly caught on camera, discussing the Tory leadership candidates (& Boris - and Thatcher!).

 

Hilarious and not very complimentary stuff. 

 

http://news.sky.com/story/1721982/watch-ken-clarke-ridicules-tory-candidates

 

So astute though Clarke, can't really argue with any of his analysis there, spot on. His comments about Gove were classic, we'd go to war with three countries at once

 

Surely they set that up though? Sky can't just release footage like that without permission?

[Darkon84]

Ken Clarke and Malcom Rifkind unwittingly caught on camera, discussing the Tory leadership candidates (& Boris - and Thatcher!).

 

Hilarious and not very complimentary stuff. 

 

http://news.sky.com/story/1721982/watch-ken-clarke-ridicules-tory-candidates

 

I could have listened to that all day, bloody entertaining stuff! It must be set up deliberately with their knowledge though, with the camera perfectly on Clarke and also with the permission, right?

[enmac]

[DJ Barry Hammond]

So astute though Clarke, can't really argue with any of his analysis there, spot on. His comments about Gove were classic, we'd go to war with three countries at once

 

Surely they set that up though? Sky can't just release footage like that without permission?

That is a bit naughty if they've released off air comments without asking - but given the little I know about Ken, he probably agreed, given he hasn't much to lose and he probably feels if he's happy to say these things off camera he's happy to say them on camera.

He's certainly a Conservative politican I would make a point to listen to, given he always has interesting insight (and appears to form his own view, regardless of party lines).

[Guest]

Ken Clarke and Malcom Rifkind unwittingly caught on camera, discussing the Tory leadership candidates (& Boris - and Thatcher!).

 

Hilarious and not very complimentary stuff. 

 

http://news.sky.com/story/1721982/watch-ken-clarke-ridicules-tory-candidates

 

 

[Guest MattP]

 

 

Now that's pretty funny, beats the shit out of the crap Willhill thing that was shared.

 

That is a bit naughty if they've released off air comments without asking - but given the little I know about Ken, he probably agreed, given he hasn't much to lose and he probably feels if he's happy to say these things off camera he's happy to say them on camera.

He's certainly a Conservative politican I would make a point to listen to, given he always has interesting insight (and appears to form his own view, regardless of party lines).

 

He's a throughly decent man and someone who deserves the upmost respect, hugely intelligent and as you say prepared to give a viewpoint against the party line, I do often wonder where the direction of the party would have ended up under his leadership.

 

(Although on European ideas we shouldn't believe he's omniscient given his stance on the Euro)

[Tielemans63]

Ken Clarke and Malcom Rifkind unwittingly caught on camera, discussing the Tory leadership candidates (& Boris - and Thatcher!).

 

Hilarious and not very complimentary stuff. 

 

http://news.sky.com/story/1721982/watch-ken-clarke-ridicules-tory-candidates

 

 

'Theresa's a bloody difficult woman but you and I worked for Margaret Thatcher, she cannot be more difficult than that"  

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Surely Gove would help the old lady across the road, only to nick her purse!

[Alf Bentley]

That is a bit naughty if they've released off air comments without asking - but given the little I know about Ken, he probably agreed, given he hasn't much to lose and he probably feels if he's happy to say these things off camera he's happy to say them on camera.

He's certainly a Conservative politican I would make a point to listen to, given he always has interesting insight (and appears to form his own view, regardless of party lines).

 

 

I'd like to live in some alternative dimension in which the 2 main parties are led by Ken Clarke and Robin Cook.

 

Stick Carswell in charge of UKIP and Ashdown or Kennedy for the Lib Dems and things couldn't go too far wrong (until Paddy's pants fell down or Charlie hit the Scotch).

[Tielemans63]

Surely Gove would help the old lady across the road, only to nick her purse!

 

Nah, he considers walking a form of social mobility and is therefore dead against it.

[Daggers]

I lived in South Northamptonshire for a good while and they like sane/sensible politics around there.

 

Brian Binley

 

David Mackintosh

 

[DJ Barry Hammond]

I'd like to live in some alternative dimension in which the 2 main parties are led by Ken Clarke and Robin Cook.

 

Stick Carswell in charge of UKIP and Ashdown or Kennedy for the Lib Dems and things couldn't go too far wrong (until Paddy's pants fell down or Charlie hit the Scotch).

Aye, it's a shame Kennedy didn't get the shot at coalition that Clegg did (who himself wasn't as bad as people made out). Was it John Smith that was the Labour leader that passed away prior to Blair - think he would have been an interesting leader.

[Alf Bentley]

Aye, it's a shame Kennedy didn't get the shot at coalition that Clegg did (who himself wasn't as bad as people made out). Was it John Smith that was the Labour leader that passed away prior to Blair - think he would have been an interesting leader.

 

 

Yep, Smith was leader 1992-94, after Kinnock narrowly lost to Major in 92. 

 

Smith lost a bit of credit in 1992, as the Shadow Chancellor who proposed "Labour's tax bombshell", as the Tory posters phrased it (possibly the main reason Labour lost).

Even so, I'm sure he'd have become PM in 1997 if he hadn't died - maybe not with as big a majority as Blair got, but he'd have won as he was reasonably well-liked and the Tories were discredited after the ERM/Black Wednesday debacle and all the in-fighting. There are some good speculative historical-fiction novels to be written about such scenarios.

 

Kennedy leading the Lib Dems in 2010 is another such scenario. Would a coalition have even happened? Kennedy was much more left-leaning than Clegg, so I'm not sure it would have held together (even assuming that Charles avoided the booze).

Of course, Blair having the sense not to renege on the electoral reform pledge is another one.....where might that have led? Lab/LD coalition? No Iraq war? No Brexit?.....

 

[Digression from topic... Sorry, Mods!]

[Alf Bentley]

1st Round:

 

May 165

Leadsom 66

Gove 48

Crabb 34

Fox 16 (Eliminated)

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36718196

 

 

That's just over 50% of the votes for May, if my maths are correct.

 

So, unless she suddenly loses a lot of votes, the remaining rounds will just be to determine her opponent in the ballot of party members.

[Webbo]

1st Round:

 

May 165

Leadsom 66

Gove 48

Crabb 34

Fox 16 (Eliminated)

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36718196

 

 

That's just over 50% of the votes for May, if my maths are correct.

 

So, unless she suddenly loses a lot of votes, the remaining rounds will just be to determine her opponent in the ballot of party members.

Gove and Crabb have enough votes to give themselves a little hope of  second place. I was hoping 1 of them would withdraw and speed everything up.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

1st Round:

 

May 165

Leadsom 66

Gove 48

Crabb 34

Fox 16 (Eliminated)

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36718196

 

 

That's just over 50% of the votes for May, if my maths are correct.

 

So, unless she suddenly loses a lot of votes, the remaining rounds will just be to determine her opponent in the ballot of party members.

She could lose a few - because her supporters may want to stage a position where Gove is in second place. Her dominant position would be at a much greater threat in a head to head with Leadsom as it stands (despite me feeling Leadsom is an awful candidate in terms of long term strategy for the Tory party when compared to May, who really would have the chance to real off 2 maybe even 3 terms in office).

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Gove and Crabb have enough votes to give themselves a little hope of  second place. I was hoping 1 of them would withdraw and speed everything up.

There are suggestions Crabb could withdraw because he may not pick up many votes from Fox's drop out (and could end up with less votes than his first round total).

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

Gove would be an absolute ****ing disaster. 

 

The guy is a total cvnt - complete disregard for the education system and alienated a nation of teachers during his time there. He'll do the same thing to the entire country as PM. 

 

Boris will come out now and basically admit everything was built on a bed of lies, stabbing Gove in the back and they both die a bloody, dismembered mess - crying in each other's arms.

 

It'll be beautiful. 

Perhaps, but the fecking teachers are a bunch of irresponsible, scruffy cnuts, that will strike for any reason. They have been doing it for years. Overpaid and under worked abominations, for the most part, though not all of them. Huge left wing influences effecting education.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Gove and Crabb have enough votes to give themselves a little hope of  second place. I was hoping 1 of them would withdraw and speed everything up.

  

There are suggestions Crabb could withdraw because he may not pick up many votes from Fox's drop out (and could end up with less votes than his first round total).

There we go, Crabb's gone.

[SMX11]

Hmmm, this is increasingly looking like a potential stitch up to get May vs Gove in the final two.

[Alf Bentley]

So, the final two will be known by Thursday evening.

 

Presumably Crabb's votes will mainly go to May, and Fox's votes mainly to Gove or Leadsom (though I'm sure it's not that simple).

 

If May would prefer to face Gove, are we assuming that some of her supporters will now vote tactically for Gove in order to eliminate Leadsom?

 

I did see an article suggesting that ALL opponents to May might pull out in order to have a PM in place sooner, though it seems unlikely that the Brexit supporters would allow that to happen....