Buce Posted 1 July 2016 Posted 1 July 2016 I've seen a life devastated by drugs which started with cannabis, I'm .not sure any war drugs would have done to stop this. He was hellbent on destroying his life and disregarded the damage left behind. Sometimes you have to accept you can't help people, they aren't always approaching things in a recreational way. In controlled circumstances cannabis and ecstasy could be made far less dangerous and that is something that should be considered. Did it start with cannabis, though? I have yet to meet anyone who didn't drink alcohol first. Why is that not seen as the 'gateway drug'? Because it's legal?
Thracian Posted 1 July 2016 Posted 1 July 2016 He hit the cannabis because of the society he was brought up in. He wouldn't have had any of those problems in the UAE. He'd have known his position and done his job. I'm not trolling your friend. You brought him up for discussion alongside the UAE as an alternative to the British policy on drugs. Yes, I can see that cannabis might not go down well - but how you can possibly fly the flag for the UAE as a society leaves me gobsmacked. I've had my own experience of fraud levels over there but that just touches the surface. Posh frontage. Holier than thou attitude. But underneath? A place to be avoided. .
Thracian Posted 1 July 2016 Posted 1 July 2016 So you blame Tory aspiration rather than cannabis for his feelings of anxiety, suspicion, panic, schizophrenia, paranoia and his mind and intelligent completely going? A man of profundity who can now barely string a coherant sentence together, I can assure you it isn't, it's to do with his own self control and the disgraceful way society now has allowed this thing to become so freely avaliable to those who are vulnerable. No idea if you are on the wind up here but It's not a subject to troll people about, I can assure you isn't actually funny watching someone you know and care about destroy their own life. All-but mirrors the experience of people I know. And the many consequences all round don't bear thinking about.
Finnaldo Posted 1 July 2016 Posted 1 July 2016 If you are going to use ridiculous soundbites like"war on drugs" I'm happy to show you somewhere that actually does have that. Cannabis has been all but decriminalised, when was the last time a cannabis smoker was dealt harsly by the courts, i.e in comparison to a country like the UAS, Saudi Arabia or Thailand, they aren't. Someone earlier in the thread made a good point about the consequences of it, one of my close friends has been completely done over by that drug, he can barely function anymore and he's not even 40, the paranoia, his speech, his depression, he can't come on a night out with us, he was a young bright bloke at 25 with the World at his feet and ten years later he's absolutely ****ed - all caused by this shit. I don't think the war on drugs is a null point to be honest Matt. With all respect to you and your friend, like daz said it's not decriminalised so I can can imagine a fair number (maybe your friend, maybe not) that could be scared of the legal consequences of coming forward and saying he has a problem with cannabis, like you said yourself with the paranoia, once you take too much for your mind to handle or you start mixing it with other substances the fear of coming forward and end up in a crushing legal dilemma could make the situation worse. In some cases it could lead people to harder drugs to try and vanquish that constant fear. In completely decriminalising all drugs, as risky as it may seem, the money saved on raids and other drug-related activity in-house could possibly be used for rehabilitation and encouraging those in a situation like your friend to come forward and gethim on the right track. I can't say it'll work here as well as it did in Portugal but in my opinion antagonism rarely works in politics or society, as we saw in the referendum. So hopefully we get a PM more willing to see the benefit in at least trialing the decriminalisation process.
Buce Posted 1 July 2016 Posted 1 July 2016 Unless I've misread that article, it suggests alcoholism has a 0.4% of inducing psychosis. I would be suprised if the level of cannabis induced psychosis is not at least 10x that level. What may or may not surprise you is irrelevant. You stated as fact that alcohol doesn't cause psychosis. I have shown you proof that it can. Unless you can show similar evidence that cannabis causes psychosis at 10x the rate, your assumptions are worhless.
Strokes Posted 1 July 2016 Posted 1 July 2016 Did it start with cannabis, though? I have yet to meet anyone who didn't drink alcohol first. Why is that not seen as the 'gateway drug'? Because it's legal? Actually it's easier to get cannabis at 14 than it is alcohol but I won't pretend alcohol wasn't in the mix either, I'm not sure of the time scale exactly as I wasn't much older than nine.
Thracian Posted 1 July 2016 Posted 1 July 2016 May's never going to deliver what the Brexiteers have called for. The vote called for real, unambiguous change. Not some political sleight of hand designed to change little in reality. Already she's mentioned not ditching the Human Rights legislation but that's as big a part of the problem as other things. Leavers clearly want out of the EU, out of Free Movement and out of the clutches of the European Court. Not some contrived piss-take that doesn't return our independence at all.
davieG Posted 1 July 2016 Author Posted 1 July 2016 Can you have your discussion on drugs in here http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forums/topic/81178-the-war-on-drugs/page-6?hl=drugs Not really that relevant to this thread well no more than a thousand other daily issues.
Buce Posted 1 July 2016 Posted 1 July 2016 Can you have your discussion on drugs in here http://www.foxestalk.co.uk/forumos/topic/81178-the-war-on-drugs/page-6?hl=drugs Not really that relevant to this thread well no more than a thousand other daily issues. Fair enough. I won't be bothering - it's been done to death on that thread, and everyone's views are firmly entrenched.
LanguedocFox Posted 1 July 2016 Posted 1 July 2016 Brilliant character assassination of Gove by Marina Hyde: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/01/michael-gove-treachery-conservative-leader-theresa-may#comment-77955590. She did a similar job on Johnson yesterday.
Spiritwalker Posted 1 July 2016 Posted 1 July 2016 What may or may not surprise you is irrelevant. You stated as fact that alcohol doesn't cause psychosis. I have shown you proof that it can. Unless you can show similar evidence that cannabis causes psychosis at 10x the rate, your assumptions are worhless.Sir Robin Murry a psychiatrist from Kings College did a study which found 5% of cannabis users developed psychosis compared to 1% who developed it without without cannabis. So my assumption was infact pretty close.
Great Boos Up Posted 1 July 2016 Posted 1 July 2016 Can I point out Sir davieG that as a conservative voter I find your use of 18th century "Tory" branding a little offensive. I am a 21st century atheist and have no values or interests in Catholicism and/or the persecution of any religion even though my mother is Irish. I feel that the term "tory" is used in a derogatory way to offend my political opinions and would suggest the thread title is changed to Conservative. PS:.... love you!
SMX11 Posted 1 July 2016 Posted 1 July 2016 Hopefully Leadsom gets to the last two, think she will be able to pip May when the people see the remainers all backing May.
enmac Posted 1 July 2016 Posted 1 July 2016 I actually think it's a fairly decent list of candidates, the opposition party would kill for five people like this at the minute to challenge their leader, I'm delighted four out of the five went to state schools as well, it's long overdue they moved away from the Eton obsession and it's time to leave the "Tory Toff" image behind, even more so as the traditional working classes turn away from Labour. May - The clear favourite, incredible to survive six years in the home office, hugely respected in the party and having a female leader would be a huge boost for any political party in this day and age, kept herself out of the limelight enough in the EU ref campaign not to be tarnished by supporting remain. Gove - You wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of him would you? He's brought down Boris and Cameron now after being humiliated by the PM just a couple of years ago, I like reformers in politics and Gove is certainly one of those, he is very toxic though as Lynton Crosby demanded he was removed before the last election, might make the final two but can't see him winning. Crabb - Great back story, brought up on a council estate defending his mother from a violent father, would be popular in Wales, problems with gays an issue though, I think his time will come one day but it's not now. Leadsom - The star of the show in the EU referendum, a genuine leaver who could demand what that side wants in EU negotiations, female again is a huge plus and she's a really nice person who would resonate with middle England, she's a bit too unknown though and it's a huge jump to go from being a junior minister to the jof of leading the country. Fox - Don't really know why he is standing, came a distant third ten years ago and that was when the Tory party was closer to him in political views than it is now. Will wothdraw as soon as he realises he doesn't have enough support. Really is May's to lose. A "decent list of candidates." (!)More like choosing between vomit and something very, very smelly!
Sharpe's Fox Posted 1 July 2016 Posted 1 July 2016 A "decent list of candidates." (!) More like choosing between vomit and something very, very smelly! Better than anything we've got on the other side. I'd kill for someone progressive at Labour with half a public profile. Except we've got lesbianic dumpy women like Angela fvcking Eagle.
Strokes Posted 1 July 2016 Posted 1 July 2016 Better than anything we've got on the other side. I'd kill for someone progressive at Labour with half a public profile. Except we've got lesbianic dumpy women like Angela fvcking Eagle. Chuka umunna and Hilary benn are very decent, I have no idea why they aren't right at the forefront. What are they waiting for?
Alf Bentley Posted 1 July 2016 Posted 1 July 2016 Chuka umunna and Hilary benn are very decent, I have no idea why they aren't right at the forefront. What are they waiting for? They're too closely associated with centrist New Labour to stand against Corbyn. They know they would lose given the leftist nature of the new membership. While Corbyn is set to stand again, only an opponent who is at least moderately left-wing stands a chance. That might change if Corbyn stands down - the likes of Umunna & Benn might then stand a chance if they moved left slightly on some policies. I don't know what would happen if Corbyn stood down and someone of similar views like McDonnell stood, though
Strokes Posted 1 July 2016 Posted 1 July 2016 They're too closely associated with centrist New Labour to stand against Corbyn. They know they would lose given the leftist nature of the new membership. While Corbyn is set to stand again, only an opponent who is at least moderately left-wing stands a chance. That might change if Corbyn stands down - the likes of Umunna & Benn might then stand a chance if they moved left slightly on some policies. I don't know what would happen if Corbyn stood down and someone of similar views like McDonnell stood, though What a mess! I thought Umunna was brilliant on the BBC when the results came through in the small hours of the referendum, I didn't agree with him but I thought he was very composed and tactful. It's a shame he is being alienated because he is what the Labour Party need on the front bench. Also on side note, I would like to see more Gisela Stuart but I would imagine she is down the pecking order like the others.
Wymsey Posted 1 July 2016 Posted 1 July 2016 Gove is becoming more embarrassing/cringeworthy the more this drags on. Have respected May for years, and she deserves to get it. A strong, popular female PM may prove again to be a good option to take.
Alf Bentley Posted 1 July 2016 Posted 1 July 2016 What a mess! I thought Umunna was brilliant on the BBC when the results came through in the small hours of the referendum, I didn't agree with him but I thought he was very composed and tactful. It's a shame he is being alienated because he is what the Labour Party need on the front bench. Also on side note, I would like to see more Gisela Stuart but I would imagine she is down the pecking order like the others. I agree that Umunna performed exceptionally well on the referendum night coverage - and was expressing views with appeal well beyond New Labour circles. If he adopted policies to appeal to alienated voters, I'd be happy with him as leader, even though I'm not a New Labourite. Interesting that he stayed in the studio for ages deep into the night, which might suggest that he does want to be a candidate this time - but would only do so if Corbyn stands down. That's another benefit if Corbyn does the responsible thing and resigns: there could be a proper contest, airing all the issues and looking for the most capable candidate. If Corbyn insists on standing, it will all be about him, pro v. anti, with him competing against a candidate selected purely as the one most likely to beat him, not necessarily the best person for the job. Anyway, better stop this debate here - we're in the wrong thread for it (Sharpe's Fox started it!)
Sharpe's Fox Posted 2 July 2016 Posted 2 July 2016 Chuka umunna and Hilary benn are very decent, I have no idea why they aren't right at the forefront. What are they waiting for? I said progressive not someone who writes speeches in the effort to bomb brown people.
Guest Col city fan Posted 2 July 2016 Posted 2 July 2016 Gove always reminds me of those nerdy kids who you didn't want to sit near at school because they weren't at all cool and you'd get bullied too if you associated with them. The thought of having him as PM is about as ridiculous as it gets.
Guest Posted 2 July 2016 Posted 2 July 2016 not got me banned yet then.. Not wanting to go off topic but needing to reply. I've never reported you. I'm just amazed that you aren't banned over and over for: 1) Arguing with people for pleasure 2) Commenting in a thread where your comment has no relevance 3) being a WUM 4) being a troll 5) making racist/sexist/etc.. comments 6) calling people names and insulting people 7) being a waste of space. I and many others have been, you must have a special relationship.
Guest Posted 2 July 2016 Posted 2 July 2016 Yes, I can see that cannabis might not go down well - but how you can possibly fly the flag for the UAE as a society leaves me gobsmacked. I've had my own experience of fraud levels over there but that just touches the surface. Posh frontage. Holier than thou attitude. But underneath? A place to be avoided. . The UAE is Mattp's thing not mine.
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