The Return of Matty James

[foxinsocks]

2 hours ago, filbertway said:

I really hope Amartey isn't mentioned as a midfielder by this point next year. Honestly, we may as well play Wes in centre mid if we're going to play Amartey there. He's a central defender, play him there, let him improve in his position.

 

Ideally we'll have Drinkwater, Wilf, James and another new guy all gunning for starting spots next season. King can come in if any need resting. Though with 4 decent midfielders his chances of minutes will diminish I'd imagine.

Before afcon he was looking pretty good on cm

[LCFC FOX]

2 minutes ago, AmarteyAndChill said:

That's because we don't have any other midfielders, it showed that Andy King started instead of him last week. 

So why didn't he get the nod at CB last week with no other CB's? 

 

Looks like shakey doesn't rate him

[AmarteyAndChill]

6 minutes ago, LCFC FOX said:

So why didn't he get the nod at CB last week with no other CB's? 

 

Looks like shakey doesn't rate him

Exactly, don't expect him to be here next season

[Babylon]

4 minutes ago, AmarteyAndChill said:

Exactly, don't expect him to be here next season

Most squads have a couple of utility players, we need people like him who can cover a few positions if needed. I still think there is a lot more to come from him if he gets some confidence and lets loose.

[AmarteyAndChill]

8 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Most squads have a couple of utility players, we need people like him who can cover a few positions if needed. I still think there is a lot more to come from him if he gets some confidence and lets loose.

We will have 5 CBs, 5 CMs all ahead of him? Is he our back up RB now then?

[Jimmy]

who are the 5 CB's?

[filbertway]

4 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

who are the 5 CB's?

Wes

Huth

Benny

Fuchs

Was?

Probably Simmo as well.

 

I find it quite baffling to be honest, there always seems to be a few choices managers make that you wonder what their thinking is.

 

The easy answer is "they see them in training and know them" which is fair enough. Just seems odd when they'll blindly stick with one approach that doesn't seem to work that well and refuse to try out a seemingly common sense solution.

[Babylon]

3 hours ago, AmarteyAndChill said:

We will have 5 CBs, 5 CMs all ahead of him? Is he our back up RB now then?

He's going to be playing in centre mid in the next game.... so how are those 5 centre mids ahead of him doing currently? And yes, he's also our back up right back.

[AmarteyAndChill]

12 minutes ago, Babylon said:

He's going to be playing in centre mid in the next game.... so how are those 5 centre mids ahead of him doing currently? And yes, he's also our back up right back.

Drinkwater injured, King injured, Mendy injured and I assume we will bring in another CM next season. That's why Amartey is playing, because we don't have anyone fit.

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, AmarteyAndChill said:

Drinkwater injured, King injured, Mendy injured and I assume we will bring in another CM next season. That's why Amartey is playing, because we don't have anyone fit.

So it's good he plays a few positions then... thanks for proving my point.

[AmarteyAndChill]

2 minutes ago, Babylon said:

So it's good he plays a few positions then... thanks for proving my point.

Why would a 22 year old be happy with playing 5 games a season though? 

[Col city fan]

14 hours ago, Babylon said:

Most squads have a couple of utility players, we need people like him who can cover a few positions if needed. I still think there is a lot more to come from him if he gets some confidence and lets loose.

How long do you give a player to 'settle in'? Two years? Three years?

I get the feeling if you were running a club, you'd sign everyone on 10 year contracts in case they finally gelled in season 6/7......

 

[Babylon]

35 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

How long do you give a player to 'settle in'? Two years? Three years?

I get the feeling if you were running a club, you'd sign everyone on 10 year contracts in case they finally gelled in season 6/7......

 

Who said anything about settling in? You think Gray is the finished article having been here the same amount of time and progressed no more than DA?

[Col city fan]

3 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Who said anything about settling in? You think Gray is the finished article having been here the same amount of time and progressed no more than DA?

My point is you appear to repeatedly churn out this line of not dismissing players too quickly etc. 'Giving them time' etc.

Well how long do you give them? We have a club to run and a squad to submit every season. So far, if I've read right, you'd keep Amartey, Mendy, Musa and Slim in the hope we'll see more from them in season 2?

What if we don't....there's four places taken up already that could potentially be filled with players who DO hit the ground running.

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, Col city fan said:

My point is you appear to repeatedly churn out this line of not dismissing players too quickly etc. 'Giving them time' etc.

Well how long do you give them? We have a club to run and a squad to submit every season. So far, if I've read right, you'd keep Amartey, Mendy, Musa and Slim in the hope we'll see more from them in season 2?

What if we don't....there's four places taken up already that could potentially be filled with players who DO hit the ground running.

Again, I've said nothing about giving him time. The argument around him is that he's a utility player who can cover multiple positions. He's also a young lad like Gray... you want to sell him?

 

Not every player is a starter, the squad is 25 people and only 11 can play. You need others to fill those spaces.

 

As for squad places themselves, there are already plenty of places that can be filled should we wish to without selling anyone. We don't need to sell people unless they want out.

 

Slimani has done more than enough to warrant a place. Amartey is a useful utility player. Mendy has been injured all season, I'm not sure he'I'll ever fit out shape, but selling someone who hasn't kicked a ball on the basis of them not being good enough is nonsense as you don't know. Musa hasn't been great but there have been glimpses of what they can do. And they all walked into a bit of a mess where everyone was awful.

 

As for what if we don't get any more out of them... so we finish mid table again, big deal. We're not a bad team even without them. But at least we know and they've had a fair crack at it before writing off 10's of millions.

 

How about you wage war on people who've been here years and are just garbage over and over again like King. You want to force him out, or does he get a pass for having been around a long time? Don't see people going crazy over Was not being selected at CB instead of Fuchs, what's he brought to the table the last two years. Again, barely a mention he gets for taking up these valuable squad places.

[The Doctor]

34 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

My point is you appear to repeatedly churn out this line of not dismissing players too quickly etc. 'Giving them time' etc.

Well how long do you give them? We have a club to run and a squad to submit every season. So far, if I've read right, you'd keep Amartey, Mendy, Musa and Slim in the hope we'll see more from them in season 2?

What if we don't....there's four places taken up already that could potentially be filled with players who DO hit the ground running.

You realise the squad needs back up players right? Amartey, much as you won't admit it because even when it's blindingly obvious you refuse to admit you called it wrong, is a competent Jack of all trades and has occasionally pulled out blinders (Porto at home, man city at home) - a good utility player is well worth the spot. Slim - conversion rate up there with the likes of Lukaku, but a season fragmented with injury, if we can keep him fit he's well worth the place. Mendy - good pedigree, looked reasonable on his debut iirc, harsh to write him off without actually seeing him play. Even musa has had decent spells while the entire team was playing bobbins.

 

They've not had great seasons, any of them, but tbf neither has the club - it's had a great purple patch that covered up a shocking first two/thirds of the season.

[Col city fan]

24 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

You realise the squad needs back up players right? Amartey, much as you won't admit it because even when it's blindingly obvious you refuse to admit you called it wrong, is a competent Jack of all trades and has occasionally pulled out blinders (Porto at home, man city at home) - a good utility player is well worth the spot. Slim - conversion rate up there with the likes of Lukaku, but a season fragmented with injury, if we can keep him fit he's well worth the place. Mendy - good pedigree, looked reasonable on his debut iirc, harsh to write him off without actually seeing him play. Even musa has had decent spells while the entire team was playing bobbins.

 

They've not had great seasons, any of them, but tbf neither has the club - it's had a great purple patch that covered up a shocking first two/thirds of the season.

I won't get into an argument with you because I've realised it's utterly futile.

Just two points: Firstly, I think more and more people are now finally realising that Amartey really isn't much good and we have no idea where his best position lies.

Secondly, if you think we can't do better than Musa in this squad, then I give up on ya. In fact, I have already to be fair.

We need a summer of good recruitment. What we did last summer was to full up the squad with what appear to be average players whilst not improving the first team. It's no coincidence that Shakey has reverted back to our 'first eleven' since he took over and....oh....weve done much better.

Over and out...i ain't discussing this with you any more.

[Babylon]

17 minutes ago, Col city fan said:

I won't get into an argument with you because I've realised it's utterly futile.

Just two points: Firstly, I think more and more people are now finally realising that Amartey really isn't much good and we have no idea where his best position lies.

Secondly, if you think we can't do better than Musa in this squad, then I give up on ya. In fact, I have already to be fair.

We need a summer of good recruitment. What we did last summer was to full up the squad with what appear to be average players whilst not improving the first team. It's no coincidence that Shakey has reverted back to our 'first eleven' since he took over and....oh....weve done much better.

Over and out...i ain't discussing this with you any more.

I've had this argument before, he's picking exactly the same team Ranieri was losing with. It's an absolute fallacy to suggest otherwise. Some of the other plays came in and out, but we were losing no matter who he picked. It's quite clearly NOT the reason for the upturn in form.

 

I'll also add, I'm more than happy for the management to sell any player if they see fit to. But it has to make sense, it has to be for the sake of proper squad building, which I don't think people even think through. The Morgan to Newcastle thread highlights that quite clearly. 

[Devonfox1884]

Amartey is fine as a squad player. But at 22 he needs games in order to develop, so there's no point him sitting on our bench to play 15 minutes here and there, we've got Kingy to do that. Loan him out to the championship for a season, then reassess his situation with us the following summer.

[Babylon]

11 hours ago, AmarteyAndChill said:

Why would a 22 year old be happy with playing 5 games a season though? 

Probably not, you have to cross that bridge when you come to it. If he wants game time, then let him go.

[shen]

1 hour ago, Devonfox1884 said:

Amartey is fine as a squad player. But at 22 he needs games in order to develop, so there's no point him sitting on our bench to play 15 minutes here and there, we've got Kingy to do that. Loan him out to the championship for a season, then reassess his situation with us the following summer.

If Amartey is fine as a squad player now, then why would it be in the interest of the club to loan him out?

[Babylon]

1 minute ago, shen said:

If Amartey is fine as a squad player now, then why would it be in the interest of the club to loan him out?

I suppose the answer to that one would be to develop him into something more than that.

 

I think he has the raw ingredients, I think it's a change of mentality he needs more than anything. I think that's down to him whether he wants to use what he's been given, go on the front foot and be positive in his decision making, or be a nervous nelly often cautious, often not trusting himself.

 

The times he's taken the initiative and really gone for it I thought he was great, but it happens so rarely it's frustrating.

[shen]

1 minute ago, Babylon said:

I suppose the answer to that one would be to develop him into something more than that.

 

I think he has the raw ingredients, I think it's a change of mentality he needs more than anything. I think that's down to him whether he wants to use what he's been given, go on the front foot and be positive in his decision making, or be a nervous nelly often cautious, often not trusting himself.

 

The times he's taken the initiative and really gone for it I thought he was great, but it happens so rarely it's frustrating.

If we get stronger players in midfield rendering Amartey a surplus player, then I could follow the thinking behind developing him on loan.

As it is, we (and possibly he) are better served keeping him here.

[Babylon]

Just now, shen said:

If we get stronger players in midfield rendering Amartey a surplus player, then I could follow the thinking behind developing him on loan.

As it is, we (and possibly he) are better served keeping him here.

I agree.

[polarbear]

2 hours ago, Col city fan said:

I won't get into an argument with you because I've realised it's utterly futile.

Just two points: Firstly, I think more and more people are now finally realising that Amartey really isn't much good and we have no idea where his best position lies.

Secondly, if you think we can't do better than Musa in this squad, then I give up on ya. In fact, I have already to be fair.

We need a summer of good recruitment. What we did last summer was to full up the squad with what appear to be average players whilst not improving the first team. It's no coincidence that Shakey has reverted back to our 'first eleven' since he took over and....oh....weve done much better.

Over and out...i ain't discussing this with you any more.

Col your lack of understanding over how a squad set up or young player development might work is astounding. 

You've had a bee in your bonnet over amartey all season that any good performances or moments of talent are completely ignored in your mind. 

You also ignore that during the Ranieri days the WHOLE team seemed to have a cautious nervous newly style about them so its no surprise that amartey followed suit (or was given instructions to do so)