Was it really deliberate handball ??

[jon1bc]

For me it's ball to hand. His hand was in that position before the ball was crossed therefore you could argue it was not deliberate. Whether this is a natural position for his hand to be in or not is subjective. The timing made the whole situation worse.. but as said, it all evens itself out so we need to move on. If the tables were turned I'd have been screaming for a peno too.

[ARTY_FOX]

I'd say no at the other end as well.  It's incredibly harsh. 

[HighPeakFox]

Again I have great sympathy with any ref here - they have a split-second to assess all sorts of nonsense and come to the right decision. Rather them than me.

[chris_lcfc_85]

It is harsh yes but if that had happened for us at home you'd be screaming for a pen so can see why he gave it. Doesn't take away the fact that pawson lost control

[Sionnach gorm]

Anyone who thinks it was intentional is batty.  The handball was behind his head and on top.  He would be unable to SEE the ball that way.  Clearly unintentional.

By the Fifa rules no yellow card no penalty.  The referee is a complete incompetent! 

[Countryfox]

1 hour ago, Gerbold said:

Pro defenders are a cagey bunch. Simpson goes to ground to block the cross with his leg but the ball goes over him. Footballers are very spatially aware - they don't necessarily need to see where the ball is to know its trajectory. The main contention is that he didn't have time to move his arm. I think he was taking a punt at the ref not penalising him and left his arm up. He's not stupid - he knows the ropes. The more I see him the more I like him as a player. Just unfortunate the ref chose to give it.

Just said the same thing in the Referees thread  ....     but you have put it so much better than me Gerby          Of course he was taking a punt ...    I saw it in his face.

[funkyrobot]

9 hours ago, Countryfox said:

Just said the same thing in the Referees thread  ....     but you have put it so much better than me Gerby          Of course he was taking a punt ...    I saw it in his face.

That was never, ever an intentional handball. Simpson's reaction tells everything - he was in utter shock. 

[ZeGuy]

12 hours ago, Gerbold said:

Pro defenders are a cagey bunch. Simpson goes to ground to block the cross with his leg but the ball goes over him. Footballers are very spatially aware - they don't necessarily need to see where the ball is to know its trajectory. The main contention is that he didn't have time to move his arm. I think he was taking a punt at the ref not penalising him and left his arm up. He's not stupid - he knows the ropes. The more I see him the more I like him as a player. Just unfortunate the ref chose to give it.

Absolutely agree. If any, his right arm should be stretched almost horizontally to the rear to maintain balance. Never at that angle. It was a clever try but didn't fool the ref.

[NotTheMarketLeader]

I've posted something on this in the Referees thread. 

 

Not handball.

 

Has to be seen to be deliberate - that judgement can only be made when the hand MOVES TO THE BALL.

 

 A situation where the ball hits the hand - as in this case - is not handball. 

 

No mention of all this other horseshit such as 'unnatural position' is to be seen within the rule.

 

 

 

 

[Blue ROI]

Would have no complaints about the penalty itself. If it was someone against us that did it and we weren't awarded a penalty we'd have a topic setup about the unfairness of it.

 

The penalty was brought about by a joke of a red card and put us in a more defensive situation leading up to it. The players and ranieri had every right to go mad.

 

We got an unlikely point from it.it almost felt like a win.we've had worse days at stoke city too!

 

Onwards and upwards

[Spudulike]

12 minutes ago, Blue ROI said:

Would have no complaints about the penalty itself. If it was someone against us that did it and we weren't awarded a penalty we'd have a topic setup about the unfairness of it.

 

The penalty was brought about by a joke of a red card and put us in a more defensive situation leading up to it. The players and ranieri had every right to go mad.

 

We got an unlikely point from it.it almost felt like a win.we've had worse days at stoke city too!

 

Onwards and upwards

'unfairness', exactly. Had that been the other way around we could not claim that it was deliberate but we could claim that 'those' type of handballs are usually given. If it hadn't have been given then it would've been unfair. It doesn't make it the correct decision though.

[foxinsocks]

No one could call it deliberate.... but if being struck by ball while your hand is above the nipple is hand ball then  I suppose it was.... in which case there should be alot more penalties.  Last week Stones played the ball with his arm wright in front of the lino and was allowed to play on... inconstant or what?

 

[Sionnach gorm]

Anyone who has played football knows that when you lunge for a ball your hands will go approximately where Simpson's hands went during his lunge.  

 

I suggest anyone who has doubts to reenact that type of lunge and see what happens. The fact that this ref was unable to see that tells me he's wholly incompetent.  

 

Years ago I was reading an article on the Italian referee Collina.  He stated that the best referees, in his opinion, were former players who understood by experience the mechanics of the game and had a natural understanding of physics through their experience.  

 

I'm so fecking mad about this whole ordeal! 

[Countryfox]

On 12/20/2016 at 11:39, ZeGuy said:

Absolutely agree. If any, his right arm should be stretched almost horizontally to the rear to maintain balance. Never at that angle. It was a clever try but didn't fool the ref.

 

Correct imo

 

15 minutes ago, Sionnach gorm said:

Anyone who has played football knows that when you lunge for a ball your hands will go approximately where Simpson's hands went during his lunge.  

 

I suggest anyone who has doubts to reenact that type of lunge and see what happens. The fact that this ref was unable to see that tells me he's wholly incompetent.  

 

Years ago I was reading an article on the Italian referee Collina.  He stated that the best referees, in his opinion, were former players who understood by experience the mechanics of the game and had a natural understanding of physics through their experience.  

 

I'm so fecking mad about this whole ordeal! 

 

Wrong imo.   i've played football from a nipper to my late 30's, most of that time as a defender, and can never recall sticking my hand above my head when doing a sliding tackle ...    out a bit or raised ...   but never straight up behind my head.

[Sionnach gorm]

17 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

 

Correct imo

 

 

Wrong imo.   i've played football from a nipper to my late 30's, most of that time as a defender, and can never recall sticking my hand above my head when doing a sliding tackle ...    out a bit or raised ...   but never straight up behind my head.

Good to know...

[Countryfox]

18 minutes ago, Sionnach gorm said:

Good to know...

 

Still think Simpson knew what he was doing ...    And still can't recall doing that as a player myself ...   But well done for finding those examples.  

[Sionnach gorm]

35 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

 

Still think Simpson knew what he was doing ...    And still can't recall doing that as a player myself ...   But well done for finding those examples.  

You may be right.  I certainly do not know what Simpson was thinking.  

 

My point was just that the split second judgement of Simpson was to lunge at the ball where he thought it would be (that is where his legs are being placed).

 

 I don't think that the opponents kick (at approximately 30 meter per second shot from 2 meters away) gave Simpson the amount of time to raise his hand intentionally and stop the ball.  If that is the case Simpson is either a genius or an idiot.  

 

I think the referee needs to know these things apriori.  I consider the referee's judgement poor.  

 

At the end you may be correct, but the referee must make his decisions on what is commonly understood about this game.

[funkyrobot]

1 hour ago, Countryfox said:

 

Still think Simpson knew what he was doing ...    And still can't recall doing that as a player myself ...   But well done for finding those examples.  

I think when you slide an arm will always raise up as the other hits the ground. The more desperate the lunge the more that's pronounced. You must've just had an impressive double low arm tackling style mate

[Countryfox]

5 minutes ago, funkyrobot said:

I think when you slide an arm will always raise up as the other hits the ground. The more desperate the lunge the more that's pronounced. You must've just had an impressive double low arm tackling style mate

 

It was brutal mate  ...   But tbh I was never very supple and doubt I could get my arm in that position.   

[Manwell Pablo]

You do raise your hand when you slide tackle, well I do anyway, but you have to look at the individual incidencent for what it is.

 

point one you have to remember Simpson is not going into a slide challenge, he's some distance away from the ball, he's trying to block a cross. The cross in question was always more than likely going to be air bound as its the best way to take Simpson out the game, he's gone to ground as its really the only effective thing he can do in his position, he needs to block the most dangerous ball which is a fizzed one on the deck across his goal. but he fails his arm out to block a potential lifted ball and that for me is why it's a correct decision.

 

you do stick your arms up when tackling but the natural arm that should be in the air is left not his right (if you look at the photos posted the arm Simpson actually flung out was the one stam and Dempsey (?) have closer to the ground) which he swings all the way to an angel directly above his head, if you look at the photos posted the hand is head height but to the side, have I ever gone in to a challenge with my arm up, yes, have I ever flapped my arm all the way back to the point it's above my head, no. It's not natural and is an attempt to make himself bigger by using an illegal part of the body, Penalty.