ImBlue Posted 17 December 2016 Posted 17 December 2016 Not complaining as I would say it was if we got it. but taking a step back and assessing it, it's a wee bit harsh. I'm not having it that his hand position was unnatural for the block he was making, your hands by your side would be most unnatural in a block like that. and there was no way he could move his hand once bojan hits it. Plus his hand is like like 2 inches directly above his head, on its way down as it's hits his hand. Wont complain, but it's not as cut and dry as some make out I don't believe.
ImBlue Posted 17 December 2016 Posted 17 December 2016 To summarise, You have I ask yourself - was it deliberate? - was hand in unnatural position? - could the hand have been moved? if yes is answer to any of them, it's handball. If it's all No, how do you justify it's a penalty?
Benguin Posted 17 December 2016 Posted 17 December 2016 None of the other decisions matter as to whether they are right or wrong, once a player is sent off the game, regardless of the result, changes; every attack Stoke makes is different, every movement our players make is different. If a player is sent off for the wrong reason the whole game is ruined and even if Pawson subsequently made the correct decision in every instance, even if they were decisions that would take a hawk eye and 50 replays to get right, he'd still have had a shocker. We can all agree, I would hope, that Vardy getting a yellow should have been the absolute worst eventuality from that incident and therefore forget every other instance, none of them matter, Pawson remains a deplorable bell end who shouldn't be trusted to referee a game of table football played by amputees let alone a fricking premier league game.
mad biker Posted 17 December 2016 Posted 17 December 2016 Never ever a penalty, as said by the motd pundits !
Vlad the Fox Posted 18 December 2016 Posted 18 December 2016 The rule should be changed to consider weather the defending team gained an advantage from the handball. So in this instance it would be a penalty as he stopped a cross into the box, had the ball been going out for a goal kick and it hit him on the way out then a corner. I've always felt the deliberate handball rule a bit strange as I should imigine very very few handballs are deliberate.
BenTheFox Posted 18 December 2016 Posted 18 December 2016 I've no problem with the penalty decision. One of the few things he got right. He even managed to book the wrong Stoke player for the foul on Simpson.
Brainy Posted 18 December 2016 Posted 18 December 2016 5 hours ago, Tuna said: luck balances out over the season. Biggest lie ever.
Red Squirrel Posted 18 December 2016 Posted 18 December 2016 Handball used to be a simple concept. If you made a positive move with your hand/arm to intercept the ball it was a penalty as opposed to some opposition player blasting a ball at you which hits your arm or hand and you had no time to get out of the way. I think Simpson was a but unlucky - the effort to block a cross meant his arm was in an unusual position but it was not in an unnatural one in the context of his attempted block. These days if the ball hits your arm/hand in the box there is a presumption of guilt on the defender so much so they run around with arms behind their back. No one taught us that at school or in football clubs. The rule is a bit of a mess in my opinion.
erlee Posted 18 December 2016 Posted 18 December 2016 6 hours ago, Spudulike said: "In Fifa's Laws of the Game 2005, Law 12 says a free-kick or penalty will be awarded if a player "handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)". "A caution or dismissal is not normally required." How could that have possibly been deliberate ?? Why was a yellow card given ?? not deliberate but his arm was in an 'unnatural position'... as for the yellow card - its for dissent. I am a ref. ..and i would have given that as a penalty too. Too obvious by extending his hands out. Foolish or naive?
Frank Large Doughnuts Posted 18 December 2016 Posted 18 December 2016 Just now, Vlad the Fox said: The rule should be changed to consider weather the defending team gained an advantage from the handball. So in this instance it would be a penalty as he stopped a cross into the box, had the ball been going out for a goal kick and it hit him on the way out then a corner. I've always felt the deliberate handball rule a bit strange as I should imigine very very few handballs are deliberate. If they are not deliberate why should it be a penalty?
Swarles Barkley Posted 18 December 2016 Posted 18 December 2016 If it was against us I wouldve been livid if it wasnt a pen. I personally think his hands were in an unnatural position, so I think it was a pen
Barky Posted 18 December 2016 Posted 18 December 2016 7 hours ago, erlee said: not deliberate but his arm was in an 'unnatural position'... as for the yellow card - its for dissent. I am a ref. ..and i would have given that as a penalty too. Too obvious by extending his hands out. Foolish or naive? Why would you give it if the rules say it has to be deliberate and you don't think it was deliberate? The rules don't say anything about unnatural position, do they? That's just a test to help establish whether or not it's deliberate. If you don't think it's deliberate right off the bat then it's simply not a penalty regardless of whether the arm position was natural or not. You say you're a ref, are you Craig Pawson?
Vlad the Fox Posted 18 December 2016 Posted 18 December 2016 7 hours ago, Frank Large Doughnuts said: If they are not deliberate why should it be a penalty? That's my point, they are given though, I should imagine the majority of hanball penalties aren't deliberate, therefore advantage gained would be a better consideration for the ref when making his decision.
Lestagirl Posted 18 December 2016 Posted 18 December 2016 13 hours ago, Beliall said: i cant imagine trying to go in for a sliding challenge / block with my arms at my side. no pen Absolutely agree with that.. a natural reaction is to put arms up, same as trying to jump for a ball, virtually impossible with out using arms to lift..
Jonezy Posted 18 December 2016 Posted 18 December 2016 That is a pen. He blocked a cross with his hand. The rules definitely needs a reworking though, as they way too confusing right now, Also I think the yellow was for the moaning and not for the handball.
dedlock Posted 18 December 2016 Posted 18 December 2016 WE have it on good authority that it was not a penalty. Esteemed football expert J Jenas, graduate of the University of Florest in football science, states on MOTD that it wasn't a penalty. Although he later qualified his expert analysis by saying "you've seen them given"
Fox92 Posted 18 December 2016 Posted 18 December 2016 If that was against us I'd be gutted if we didn't get a penalty.
jammie82uk Posted 18 December 2016 Posted 18 December 2016 14 hours ago, Spudulike said: "In Fifa's Laws of the Game 2005, Law 12 says a free-kick or penalty will be awarded if a player "handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)". "A caution or dismissal is not normally required." How could that have possibly been deliberate ?? Why was a yellow card given ?? Ruling was slightly amended at start of the season In an effort to stop referees brandishing yellow cards for every handball, "preventing an opponent gaining possession" has been removed from the list of bookable offences. Handball is now a yellow card offence when "it stops/interferes with a promising attack".
yorkie1999 Posted 18 December 2016 Posted 18 December 2016 9 hours ago, erlee said: not deliberate but his arm was in an 'unnatural position'... as for the yellow card - its for dissent. I am a ref. ..and i would have given that as a penalty too. Too obvious by extending his hands out. Foolish or naive? Well I'd say his arm was in a natural position considering he was sliding in to prevent the cross, in fact if his trailing arm was down by his side it would look possibly the most unnatural position conceivable.
Sammy Posted 18 December 2016 Posted 18 December 2016 1 hour ago, Vlad the Fox said: That's my point, they are given though, I should imagine the majority of hanball penalties aren't deliberate, therefore advantage gained would be a better consideration for the ref when making his decision. problem with that then is you're trying to make defenders completely lose their arms. You'll see defenders blocking crosses/going in to tackles with hands behind their back which just isn't natural and doesn't work, but I agree with the idea or at least the need for the FA to do something about it
trabuch Posted 18 December 2016 Posted 18 December 2016 You very rarely see an indirect free kick in the penalty box. This may be a case foe a rule change. I hate seeing defenders with their arms behind their backs in the area. That IS unnatural.
Sammy Posted 18 December 2016 Posted 18 December 2016 1 hour ago, Jonezy said: That is a pen. He blocked a cross with his hand. The rules definitely needs a reworking though, as they way too confusing right now, Also I think the yellow was for the moaning and not for the handball. I don't actually think the rule is confusing at all, clearly states that any handball must be deliberate. What is confusing is the referees implementation, not only are they inconsistent with what they do and don't give they stray away from the rules
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