Vacamion Posted 12 June 2018 Author Share Posted 12 June 2018 North Korea gets world recognition, same level as the USA. For “working towards” denuclearisation, which they have promised before. If Trump thinks the rest of the world will forget his disgraceful fracturing of the world order and his bizarre attacks on Canada at the G7, he is mistaken. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozleicester Posted 12 June 2018 Share Posted 12 June 2018 A lunatic meets a dictator. Millions of Koreans are suffering, thousands have been killed or tortured at Kim's behest...and that stupid egotist ignores it all in order to add another note to his "resume" We are the most easily led, easily fooled group of humans in history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 12 June 2018 Share Posted 12 June 2018 7 minutes ago, Vacamion said: North Korea gets world recognition, same level as the USA. For “working towards” denuclearisation, which they have promised before. If Trump thinks the rest of the world will forget his disgraceful fracturing of the world order and his bizarre attacks on Canada at the G7, he is mistaken. Yeah, the whole world now sees N Korea as an equal to America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 12 June 2018 Share Posted 12 June 2018 2 minutes ago, ozleicester said: A lunatic meets a dictator. Millions of Koreans are suffering, thousands have been killed or tortured at Kim's behest...and that stupid egotist ignores it all in order to add another note to his "resume" We are the most easily led, easily fooled group of humans in history. So you'd rather they didn't meet and continued the hostilities instead then Oz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 12 June 2018 Share Posted 12 June 2018 1 minute ago, ozleicester said: A lunatic meets a dictator. Millions of Koreans are suffering, thousands have been killed or tortured at Kim's behest...and that stupid egotist ignores it all in order to add another note to his "resume" We are the most easily led, easily fooled group of humans in history. What has not meeting KJU achieved so far? So many small minded people desperate to be negative about this, just because it's Trump. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vacamion Posted 12 June 2018 Author Share Posted 12 June 2018 4 minutes ago, Webbo said: What has not meeting KJU achieved so far? So many small minded people desperate to be negative about this, just because it's Trump. A bit ad hominem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vacamion Posted 12 June 2018 Author Share Posted 12 June 2018 8 minutes ago, Webbo said: Yeah, the whole world now sees N Korea as an equal to America. Trump just flew round the world to meet Kim in a meeting he describes a very significant, poses with Kim, talks about their relationship. I’d say the North Koreans’ status needs are being fed, in exchange for little in concrete action. We’ll see if their actions match today’s words. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozleicester Posted 12 June 2018 Share Posted 12 June 2018 8 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said: So you'd rather they didn't meet and continued the hostilities instead then Oz? I would rather the POTUS did not meet with Kim. They have innumerable underlings whos job and years of training are designed for this very thing. Kim wanted it, because it legitimises him and increases his power at home and on the world stage, Trump wanted it because he is a glory seeking twat. Trump and the USA have been played by NK 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 12 June 2018 Share Posted 12 June 2018 14 minutes ago, ozleicester said: A lunatic meets a dictator. Millions of Koreans are suffering, thousands have been killed or tortured at Kim's behest...and that stupid egotist ignores it all in order to add another note to his "resume" We are the most easily led, easily fooled group of humans in history. Probably one of the stupidest things you've posted in a while. I hate Trump, I would smile if an unpleasant injury forced him from office, if his wife saw sense and ****ed off or if he gets his dues for any one of a billion foul things he's done. But communication with NK isn't one of them. First step to improving the lives of North Koreans is discourse with the outside world. Their lives are never going to improve as an isolated state with closed doors. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 12 June 2018 Share Posted 12 June 2018 2 minutes ago, ozleicester said: I would rather the POTUS did not meet with Kim. They have innumerable underlings whos job and years of training are designed for this very thing. Kim wanted it, because it legitimises him and increases his power at home and on the world stage, Trump wanted it because he is a glory seeking twat. Trump and the USA have been played by NK So what exactly are the downsides to them meeting do you think? Genuinely interested in why you think it’s a bad thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breadandcheese Posted 12 June 2018 Share Posted 12 June 2018 Why the big deal about giving Kim world recognition? It costs very little and can quickly be reversed into isolation again if Kim is playing us. Why are we so thin skinned that we're worried that Kim gets a photo opportunity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozleicester Posted 12 June 2018 Share Posted 12 June 2018 It gives more power to Kim, his hundreds/thousands of murders are ignored by the POTUS. His treatment of his people is effectively justified by the leader of the free world putting him on an even platform. The implication to other dictators is.. stick with it, they will come to you eventually. Are you happy for the POTUS to meet with Al Assad as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopfkino Posted 12 June 2018 Share Posted 12 June 2018 13 minutes ago, Webbo said: What has not meeting KJU achieved so far? So many small minded people desperate to be negative about this, just because it's Trump. Yep it's strange, don't remember such a reaction for Obama engaging with other despot regimes such as Iran and Cuba. Kim gets legitimacy but still presides over a vile, murderous regime. Trump gets a photo-op and continues his mission to rip-up the diplomatic rule-book. We get a bit of signed paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 12 June 2018 Share Posted 12 June 2018 3 minutes ago, breadandcheese said: Why the big deal about giving Kim world recognition? It costs very little and can quickly be reversed into isolation again if Kim is playing us. Why are we so thin skinned that we're worried that Kim gets a photo opportunity? Because muppets like ozleicester are the "left" (as a leftist with a brain I ****ing resent that) equivalent of a breitbart troll and it'd kill him to admit Trump had done anything of value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozleicester Posted 12 June 2018 Share Posted 12 June 2018 5 minutes ago, Finnegan said: Probably one of the stupidest things you've posted in a while. I hate Trump, I would smile if an unpleasant injury forced him from office, if his wife saw sense and ****ed off or if he gets his dues for any one of a billion foul things he's done. But communication with NK isn't one of them. First step to improving the lives of North Koreans is discourse with the outside world. Their lives are never going to improve as an isolated state with closed doors. Thanks. There are trained negotiators and state department people who actually UNDERSTAND what is going on who can meet and discuss moving forward. Why do you think these two decided to meet....rather than have their skilled teams do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozleicester Posted 12 June 2018 Share Posted 12 June 2018 4 minutes ago, Finnegan said: Because muppets like ozleicester are the "left" (as a leftist with a brain I ****ing resent that) equivalent of a breitbart troll and it'd kill him to admit Trump had done anything of value. BAck to bed chap, try getting up on the right side... you are about as left as Churchill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted 12 June 2018 Share Posted 12 June 2018 2 minutes ago, ozleicester said: Thanks. There are trained negotiators and state department people who actually UNDERSTAND what is going on who can meet and discuss moving forward. Why do you think these two decided to meet....rather than have their skilled teams do it? So you don't think Trump and Kim travelled with any diplomats, lawyers, advisors, they just went together for a photo shoot and a chin wag? Of course there's self promotion but if that's what it took to get them to the table who gives a ****? Legitimises his regime? What do you think that even means? He's already entrenched, what do you think can even happen? The only way you improve the lives of North Koreans is by integrating North Korea in to the rest of the world. To talking Kim down bit by bit. That or bumping him off but it's not exactly gone well for us elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 12 June 2018 Share Posted 12 June 2018 Pathetic how desperate the Little Englander rednecks are to praise Trump that they'll hail this as some sort of achievement. They're conspicuous by their absence any other time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozleicester Posted 12 June 2018 Share Posted 12 June 2018 4 minutes ago, Finnegan said: So you don't think Trump and Kim travelled with any diplomats, lawyers, advisors, they just went together for a photo shoot and a chin wag? Of course there's self promotion but if that's what it took to get them to the table who gives a ****? Legitimises his regime? What do you think that even means? He's already entrenched, what do you think can even happen? The only way you improve the lives of North Koreans is by integrating North Korea in to the rest of the world. To talking Kim down bit by bit. That or bumping him off but it's not exactly gone well for us elsewhere. This is exactly why it concerns me.. i have to explain this sh*t to people... Legitimise his regime = make him appear as a relevant and important part of the world political environment, give the impression to other dictators that the free world will be happy to discuss with you, no matter what crimes you have or are committing to your people. You dont send the CEO of Barclays up to the Ashby branch to find out why Jan hasnt made budget this month. Still as Trump said its a "Very important document" and the simpletons will applaud and throw confetti, Kim will return home and continue to kill and torture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted 12 June 2018 Share Posted 12 June 2018 Simple question for me...”Does the world feel a better/safer place than it did 24 hours ago now that these two have met?” Even just a tiny bit? If yes, then it can only be a good thing as far as I’m concerned... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozleicester Posted 12 June 2018 Share Posted 12 June 2018 Just now, Izzy Muzzett said: Simple question for me...”Does the world feel a better/safer place than it did 24 hours ago now that these two have met?” Even just a tiny bit? If yes, then it can only be a good thing as far as I’m concerned... Honest question (with absolutely no underlying tone)... Do you actually feel there is a chance of nuclear war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 12 June 2018 Share Posted 12 June 2018 2 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said: Simple question for me...”Does the world feel a better/safer place than it did 24 hours ago now that these two have met?” Even just a tiny bit? If yes, then it can only be a good thing as far as I’m concerned... Hear hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozleicester Posted 12 June 2018 Share Posted 12 June 2018 (edited) Honestly - What outcome does everyone expect from the "Very important document"? Edit And following from Izzys post... why do you feel safer? again, just interested, not trying to cause trouble Edited 12 June 2018 by ozleicester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breadandcheese Posted 12 June 2018 Share Posted 12 June 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, ozleicester said: Honestly - What outcome does everyone expect from the "Very important document"? At this point, very little. Do I trust that the North Koreans are entering into this will all sincerity? No. However, it is a step in the right direction, and if there is a chance that Kim is sincere, it is worth exploring as it costs very little to have some meetings and hopefully start a process of integration. WIth regards your post earlier about legitimising a dictatorship, it is something that sits ill, as I believe in democracy and freedom, however, at this point, what is the alternative approach? Edited 12 June 2018 by breadandcheese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 12 June 2018 Share Posted 12 June 2018 1 minute ago, ozleicester said: Honestly - What outcome does everyone expect from the "Very important document"? It's not the end is it you doughnut. It's the beginning. The document was just to get in writing what has already been agreed with South Korea. Get rid of the nukes, and the US and SK will help lead you to a better life. It could all be bollocks, but eventually people have to stop posturing and start doing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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