Video ref France v Spain

[MrSpaM]

They are now looking to using it in the FA cup next season in games past the third round

[Footballwipe]

I am bemused that anyone could begrudge us making sure that goals are correctly awarded/disallowed in the sport. Sorry to bring money into this, too, but some goals and some matches are the difference of tens (if not hundreds) of millions of pounds. Those decisions need to be right.

[filbertway]

Good to see it used successfully last night, it will be better once they streamline the process as mentioned above as it did seem a bit weird with everyone just stood looking at the ref.

 

Needs to be used only for scenario's where a definitive answer can be given but seems good to me.

[RowlattsFox]

I don't know if it was decided before hand on what situations it would be used it but it was good that the ref didn't ask for confirmation on the penalty decision, he was right to give it but it would have been easy for him to double check.

 

Needs to be a way of making sure everyone is aware what is happening though, not sure those in the ground knew when the ref was talking to the video ref. The France players were celebrating a goal for 30 seconds before they realised it had been changed.

 

Who decides to check? Is it the ref? Is it the players? or does the video ref check every decision immediately and then talks to the ref if it has led to a goal?

[Finnegan]

It should never be up to the players to check unless there is an official challenge system like cricket or American football.

 

Recently in rugby I've noticed refs go to the TMO because players are encouraging him to look at something and I definitely don't like that.

[AKCJ]

1 minute ago, Finnegan said:

It should never be up to the players to check unless there is an official challenge system like cricket or American football.

 

Recently in rugby I've noticed refs go to the TMO because players are encouraging him to look at something and I definitely don't like that.

My major worry about it is that it will increase the amount of players surrounding the referee.

[Finnegan]

17 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

My major worry about it is that it will increase the amount of players surrounding the referee.

 

Easy, book everyone that talks to the ref that's not the captain.

[AKCJ]

Just now, Finnegan said:

 

Easy, book everyone that talks to the ref that's not the captain.

Easy on paper, but these refs don't have the stones to do it.

 

Look at the penalties for grappling thing. Came out all guns blazing and now it's the same as it always was because they've bottled it and they don't follow up on it.

 

Refs need to be stronger in Football like they are in Rugby.

[Finnegan]

13 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

Easy on paper, but these refs don't have the stones to do it.

 

Look at the penalties for grappling thing. Came out all guns blazing and now it's the same as it always was because they've bottled it and they don't follow up on it.

 

Refs need to be stronger in Football like they are in Rugby.

 

I don't see it as the refs, it's the fa that need to be stronger.

 

They need to stand up to these moany bastards like Mourinho and actually defend their refs very vocally.

 

They need to start handing out massive fines for not controlling your players, fines in the hundreds of thousands to millions, not a few grand here and there.

 

They need to tell refs in no uncertain terms that any player that approaches them without being asked or without being the captain gets booked and if they don't enforce that, they won't be reffing top flight games the next week.

 

Be firm, stick to your guns. **** the "respect" campaign, it doesn't work. We tried that and failed, next up go for the iron fist of the law campaign until the bastards learn.

[Finnegan]

Scratch that, **** fines. Points deductions for not controlling your players.

 

And if it happens more than once a season, the FA can ban you from representing England in the champions league.

 

I don't care if we end up sending Port Vale off to ruin our coefficient, you crowd the ref like a bunch of bellends, you don't go to Europe.

[Guest Col city fan]

Bloody awful idea...cost me over a century last night...the techy bar stewards..

[AKCJ]

20 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Scratch that, **** fines. Points deductions for not controlling your players.

 

And if it happens more than once a season, the FA can ban you from representing England in the champions league.

 

I don't care if we end up sending Port Vale off to ruin our coefficient, you crowd the ref like a bunch of bellends, you don't go to Europe.

Yeah that's OTT.

 

Heavier fines should lead to points deductions if clubs aren't taking the hint though. If a club isn't controlling it's players again and again it should be a last resort.

[MrSpaM]

1 hour ago, AKCJ said:

Yeah that's OTT.

 

Heavier fines should lead to points deductions if clubs aren't taking the hint though. If a club isn't controlling it's players again and again it should be a last resort.

I don't think any official would dare give a points reduction to the likes of man u, man city, Liverpool etc

 

Giving a team that's top of the league a points reduction because their players crowded the ref in the heat of the moment three games before the end of the season would cause national hysteria

[Finnegan]

1 hour ago, MrSpaM said:

I don't think any official would dare give a points reduction to the likes of man u, man city, Liverpool etc

 

Giving a team that's top of the league a points reduction because their players crowded the ref in the heat of the moment three games before the end of the season would cause national hysteria

 

Yeah it would, the first time.

 

That's the problem though, the association need the spine to stand up to the money and say "look, the example we set to people of all ages is ****ing terrible - we need to sort this out."

 

Dylan Hartley of Northampton Saints calls a ref a ****ing cheat just before half time in a major final, he gets sent straight off, his team go on to lose the title. How many times have we seen Jamie Vardy mouthing and gesturing at an official and we all know EXACTLY what he's saying without being any kind of qualified lip reader? It's not acceptable. Why should that be considered okay? It's got nothing to do with passion, it's got nothing to do with the heat of the moment, it's got everything to do with social norms and the social norm in football is that it's okay to treat the ref like shit.

 

Look at the video doing the rounds of a Brazilian ref sending off Louis Fabiano. Universally, everyone seems to be getting sidetracked by the ref having a wobble and everyone's claiming he's faked a headbutt and sent Fabiano off for no reason. But watch it again, Louis Fabiano squares up to the ref and goes chest to chest with him to protest a perfectly legitimate yellow card. It's ridiculous. That happens in rugby and the association probably ban him for six weeks plus.

 

The governing bodies need to crack down and very quickly what's acceptable will change.

 

Rugby players don't do this shit, not because they're all lovely posh boys who wouldn't hurt a fly, but because they quite simply know they won't get away with it and the consequences are too severe.

 

I'm well aware that the idea of points deductions for crowding the ref are a little bit over the top, I was being deliberately absurd there. But I do believe the punishments for poor behavior towards the officials need to get massively more severe and need to be very strictly enforced by the FA, UEFA and FIFA.

[Stadt]

I've never really understood the only the captain talking to the ref point, say a striker's being a cock and your captain goalkeeper has to run the length of the pitch just to talk to the ref. It's not practical. Any player that is unecessarily surrounding the ref should be booked to deal with that problem.

[Finnegan]

4 minutes ago, Wookie said:

I've never really understood the only the captain talking to the ref point, say a striker's being a cock and your captain goalkeeper has to run the length of the pitch just to talk to the ref. It's not practical. Any player that is unecessarily surrounding the ref should be booked to deal with that problem.

 

I'm not sure I follow. The ref can approach and speak to anyone he wants, the captain doesn't have to be present.

 

Obviously if the ref calls you over and speaks to you, you're allowed to respond. It's worth pointing out that in a game of rugby, players (especially scrum halves, the little shits) are constantly in the ear of the ref, chatting to him, nobody's ever said that's a problem although there are occasions when the ref gets fed up of him and tells him to stfu, which then happens.

 

When people like myself call for tighter regulation on player interactions with the ref we are obviously talking about protests and complaints following decisions. I don't expect a player to be booked for asking, for example, how long's left or having a joke a joke with the ref.

[stripeyfox]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

Yeah it would, the first time.

 

That's the problem though, the association need the spine to stand up to the money and say "look, the example we set to people of all ages is ****ing terrible - we need to sort this out."

 

Dylan Hartley of Northampton Saints calls a ref a ****ing cheat just before half time in a major final, he gets sent straight off, his team go on to lose the title. How many times have we seen Jamie Vardy mouthing and gesturing at an official and we all know EXACTLY what he's saying without being any kind of qualified lip reader? It's not acceptable. Why should that be considered okay? It's got nothing to do with passion, it's got nothing to do with the heat of the moment, it's got everything to do with social norms and the social norm in football is that it's okay to treat the ref like shit.

 

Look at the video doing the rounds of a Brazilian ref sending off Louis Fabiano. Universally, everyone seems to be getting sidetracked by the ref having a wobble and everyone's claiming he's faked a headbutt and sent Fabiano off for no reason. But watch it again, Louis Fabiano squares up to the ref and goes chest to chest with him to protest a perfectly legitimate yellow card. It's ridiculous. That happens in rugby and the association probably ban him for six weeks plus.

 

The governing bodies need to crack down and very quickly what's acceptable will change.

 

Rugby players don't do this shit, not because they're all lovely posh boys who wouldn't hurt a fly, but because they quite simply know they won't get away with it and the consequences are too severe.

 

I'm well aware that the idea of points deductions for crowding the ref are a little bit over the top, I was being deliberately absurd there. But I do believe the punishments for poor behavior towards the officials need to get massively more severe and need to be very strictly enforced by the FA, UEFA and FIFA.

Not quite on the same level, but years ago playing in a local Sunday league, we had a collection of crap refs and most games involved lots of swearing, scrapping and abusing of refs. Then one day we got a new ref we'd never had before - Mr Goose. His first decision against us after about 5 minutes was greeted by one of our defenders saying "fks sake ref". Goose produced a straight red. Another player swore at him. Second red. Down to nine men after 5 minutes. But do you know what, after that no one said a word out of place to him! We lost, of course, but a few weeks later we played an away game and saw Mr Goose was the ref. Our pre match team talk revolved around "don't give the ref any shit or he'll give you a straight red". We behaved ourselves and watched the other team get two sent off in the same fashion we did.

 

After not very long, all the teams in the league respected this ref and we all would have chosen him to ref our games if we could.

 

[Finnegan]

4 minutes ago, stripeyfox said:

Not quite on the same level, but years ago playing in a local Sunday league, we had a collection of crap refs and most games involved lots of swearing, scrapping and abusing of refs. Then one day we got a new ref we'd never had before - Mr Goose. His first decision against us after about 5 minutes was greeted by one of our defenders saying "fks sake ref". Goose produced a straight red. Another player swore at him. Second red. Down to nine men after 5 minutes. But do you know what, after that no one said a word out of place to him! We lost, of course, but a few weeks later we played an away game and saw Mr Goose was the ref. Our pre match team talk revolved around "don't give the ref any shit or he'll give you a straight red". We behaved ourselves and watched the other team get two sent off in the same fashion we did.

 

After not very long, all the teams in the league respected this ref and we all would have chosen him to ref our games if we could.

 

 

Exactly. And that's at park level, not (with all due respect) highly paid professionals. 

 

People learn, people adapt.

[stripeyfox]

6 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Exactly. And that's at park level, not (with all due respect) highly paid professionals. 

 

People learn, people adapt.

Yeah, that was my point. And people learn very quickly to keep their mouth shut. And quickly realise that it is actually better with a ref who enforces the rules too.

 

[DB11]

If you know this technology is being used as a lino then you don't give any tight calls, let play continue and it can be brought back if its offside. Imagine giving a tight decision and then realising it was actually onside? Unless a goal has immediately been scored and then how do you give the ball back to the attacking team? Or what if the defending team has stopped playing because they've seen the flag go up?

 

I can see it becoming a comfort net that assistants can fall back on if they wrongfully don't put the flag up vs wrongfully calling offside so it's a no brainer which you do if it's tight

[leicsmac]

Finn speaking WAY too much sense in this thread.

[FraserSorensen]

31 minutes ago, DB11 said:

If you know this technology is being used as a lino then you don't give any tight calls, let play continue and it can be brought back if its offside. Imagine giving a tight decision and then realising it was actually onside?

I agree to an extent, but when it's tight advantage is meant to be given to the attacker, yet how often is that actually the case? I would rather let play continue and we get it cleared up for the avoidance of doubt if a goal is scored as a result than prematurely rule something out to see where it went. If the Lino was confident then he has to go with it I guess.

[Nick]

I'm mixed about this - Some Rugby World Cup matches were slowed down so much it advantaged some teams because they got 7-8 rest periods per half lasting 2-3 minutes to recover when perhaps the fitter opposition would have been wearing them down. It seemed to suit sides like Samoa and Japan with lots of fellas built more like sprinting power units than perhaps some of the physiques of northern hemisphere sides!

[DB11]

6 hours ago, FraserSorensen said:

I agree to an extent, but when it's tight advantage is meant to be given to the attacker, yet how often is that actually the case?

Is it? Where does it say that in the laws of the game or guidance?? Years of commentators saying it because it's their opinion doesn't make something correct! 

[Super_horns]

Probably only take up as much time as it does managers and players rushing to argue with the officials but there does have to be a limit.

 

Cannot be used for everything otherwise the game would never end!

 

As for appeals - well I guess some might abuse it but they'd soon learn..