United Airlines...Barbaric???

[leicsmac]

9 minutes ago, MPH said:

 

 

Now thats totally a fair point.. they need to look at  any fesable ways of preventing this from happening.

 

What the aviation police will need to prove is did they make every effort to resolve the situation and did they use unreasonable force?

 

as a side note, one of the officers has been placed on leave

6

 

6 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said:

The guy has no case, he was asked to leave and refused.  As soon as you resist, the case of acceptable force is very difficult to defend, as the fuzz are entitled to apply the relevant force, so the more you resist, the more the fuzz can apply force.  Now if he was shit or beaten by battens then maybe,. It if his head was accidentally bashed.... I doubt he would get anything else then a free upgrade from the airline

 

 

4 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

If it turns out he left the flight once and really did try and run back on and that's when they got more physical (which will come out easily as there's no doubt CCTV everywhere) then he's got no chance.

 

He'll be lucky if the authorities don't prosecute him.

 

 

It is all going to come down to whether the use of force was acceptable or not, I guess. He was certainly in a place that legally he shouldn't have been. but people who have violated the law have carried through successful 'unreasonable force during arrest' lawsuits before.

 

 

4 minutes ago, MPH said:

 

 

So back to the question you seem to be ignoring....

 

 

How would you deal with a person who is refusing to leave the plane?

 

Pardon me for stepping in here, but auction the space off. Keep upping the price until you get a taker. Shouldn't take too long.

[ozleicester]

3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

 

 

 

It is all going to come down to whether the use of force was acceptable or not, I guess. He was certainly in a place that legally he shouldn't have been. but people who have violated the law have carried through successful 'unreasonable force during arrest' lawsuits before.

 

 

Pardon me for stepping in here, but auction the space off. Keep upping the price until you get a taker. Shouldn't take too long.

 

[Finnegan]

4 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

 

 

 

Pardon me for stepping in here, but auction the space off. Keep upping the price until you get a taker. Shouldn't take too long.

 

You're still going to potentially have situations where either the passengers are holding out for an unreasonable amount or they all value their convenience over money.

 

In which case you're back to square one.

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

You're still going to potentially have situations where either the passengers are holding out for an unreasonable amount or they all value their convenience over money.

 

In which case you're back to square one.

 

Given that this situation itself is statistically insignificant, the likelihood of not one person out of 200 taking the dough once it gets to, say, three or four times the cost of the ticket is vastly more so IMO - someone will break. In any case, I honestly think doing that - even if the cost creeps up to a few thousand - would be better than the money loss because of the PR catastrophe this case has become.

[Finnegan]

Just now, leicsmac said:

Given that this situation itself is statistically insignificant, the likelihood of not one person out of 200 taking the dough once it gets to, say, three or four times the cost of the ticket is vastly more so IMO - someone will break. In any case, I honestly think doing that - even if the cost creeps up to a few thousand - would be better than the money loss because of the PR catastrophe this case has become.

 

The whole situation is already statistically unlikely, you don't see this happen every day do you?

 

In 99.9r% of cases someone already WILL volunteer to disembark because the airlines DO offer upgrades, refunds and accommodation when this stuff happens and nowhere in any of the coverage of this incident has it said this wasn't the case here.

 

Again, everyone is assuming the airline are unreasonable based on one video because the sad looking old Asian man is being roughed up.

 

But sad looking old Asian men are just as capable or being stupid, unreasonable pricks as multi million dollar airlines it's just that that makes a far less appealing viral story.

[fuchsntf]

Before I retired, I flew both American and United..I I never had any recourse or anything negative against either.

They requested twice in a short period, different flights if there were any volunteers to delay their travel.

I travelled business class, and on the 2 occasions, I went once to the front desk, another time I had just got on the plane,

1st time, they recalled me and bucked me to 1st class no delay.The other I was asked to take the next days 2nd flight,

I agreed, they put me up in an hotel with top meals. Evening/breakfast and taxi back to abd from airport.

Bumped me up to 1st class.

Another time while on a project in Chicago, my family came to visit me, 2 teenagers,2 girls 6 &11.plus wife.

I was returning home with them, they had economy myself business.Again We were called out 1st seperately,

then once again together.  Finding it we were one family, they upgraded me to 1st class and my family business class.

They asked if we would take the next associated flight (3 hrs diff), and gave us ala carte vouchers for the Restaurant.

Just as we were about to leave the gate, the same girl came over told us we could get on the requested booked flight

all upgrades to be honoured.

There are ways then there are ways.....

[leicsmac]

3 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

The whole situation is already statistically unlikely, you don't see this happen every day do you?

 

In 99.9r% of cases someone already WILL volunteer to disembark because the airlines DO offer upgrades, refunds and accommodation when this stuff happens and nowhere in any of the coverage of this incident has it said this wasn't the case here.

 

Again, everyone is assuming the airline are unreasonable based on one video because the sad looking old Asian man is being roughed up.

 

But sad looking old Asian men are just as capable or being stupid, unreasonable pricks as multi million dollar airlines it's just that that makes a far less appealing viral story.

 

Oh yeah, it's definitely unlikely.

 

FWIW I don't think the airline are being unreasonable in their procedure here (they played things by the book), but unintended consequences are still consequences and unfortunately for them they're feeling them. This just shows the procedures in place for such a situation aren't necessarily what they should be, and that if it were to happen again upping the bribes would be a more cost-effective method of resolving things than getting on the phone and calling in the heavy mob (even though they were legally allowed, nay obliged, to do so).

[ozleicester]

It is not uncommon, it happens virtually every day, its actually good that people who have no idea are now seeing this.

 

"Up to 50000 passengers a year are being bumped off British flights as airlines overbook ... Traditionally, airlines sell too many seats in the expectation that some,,,,,,,,,,,

 

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/the-times/airlines-overbooking-to-maximise-profit-means-anyone-can-be-bumped-off-their-next-flight/news-story/cca65d0463869a8b1b804c20f5e837aa

[Merging Cultures]

1. He was selected at random
2. He was being removed to allow Airline staff to fly; they could have been put in a taxi/limo service and been driven the 5 hours to their next stop, or stuck them on another airline
3. They could have continued to increase the amount they were willing to pay someone to volunteer
4. They physically removed him, his face hit the arm rest and he was dragged out; then he ran back in later with a bloodied face and looking confused (apparently)
5. The airline/airport security company will pay quite a bit of money; it would have been cheaper to send the staff via taxi/limo alternative airline

[Dr The Singh]

4 minutes ago, Merging Cultures said:

1. He was selected at random
2. He was being removed to allow Airline staff to fly; they could have been put in a taxi/limo service and been driven the 5 hours to their next stop, or stuck them on another airline
3. They could have continued to increase the amount they were willing to pay someone to volunteer
4. They physically removed him, his face hit the arm rest and he was dragged out; then he ran back in later with a bloodied face and looking confused (apparently)
5. The airline/airport security company will pay quite a bit of money; it would have been cheaper to send the staff via taxi/limo alternative airline

I'm sure if option 2 was available, they would have done so.  You often see flight crew in flights from even companion airlines

[Merging Cultures]

2 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said:

I'm sure if option 2 was available, they would have done so.  You often see flight crew in flights from even companion airlines

It really was, especially the being driven part, it was only a 5 hour drive. Not sure about another airline though.

 

They stopped at $800 for the compensation, they could and should have gone higher. Watch no one budge the next time they are asked, at least it gets into the real money!!!

 

Also, usually bumping happens at the gate, not when your seated, that was quite unusual.

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, Merging Cultures said:

It really was, especially the being driven part, it was only a 5 hour drive. Not sure about another airline though.

 

They stopped at $800 for the compensation, they could and should have gone higher. Watch no one budge the next time they are asked, at least it gets into the real money!!!

 

Also, usually bumping happens at the gate, not when your seated, that was quite unusual.

4

This. And they could go a lot higher and it would still cost less than what doing what they did is going to.

[Sharpe's Fox]

Dumbass should have just walked off and got his money. Honestly how thick can you get what was he thinking. Drama queen.

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

Dumbass should have just walked off and got his money. Honestly how thick can you get what was he thinking. Drama queen.

Perhaps he thought what he was going to do was more valuable than what UA were offering him at the time?

[MPH]

44 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

 

 

 

It is all going to come down to whether the use of force was acceptable or not, I guess. He was certainly in a place that legally he shouldn't have been. but people who have violated the law have carried through successful 'unreasonable force during arrest' lawsuits before.

 

 

Pardon me for stepping in here, but auction the space off. Keep upping the price until you get a taker. Shouldn't take too long.

 

 

Thats usually what they do before people have boarded the plane... However that can take time which they didn't have...

[Merging Cultures]

2 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

Dumbass should have just walked off and got his money. Honestly how thick can you get what was he thinking. Drama queen.

Because he had places to be and things to do?

 

People don't fly just for the fun of it. They have schedules and lives to live. They needed to keep increasing the amount of money on offer until it fairly compensated someone for the inconvenience that they caused by insisting on flying their staff ahead of their customers.

[Sharpe's Fox]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

Perhaps he thought what he was going to do was more valuable than what UA were offering him at the time?

Who cares. You've been chosen, unfortunately. The captain has jurisdiction so it's a case of ding ding ding, weird screaming Asian manchild come on down!

[Trav Le Bleu]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

Why would they have to pay anything out? It wasn't their staff that laid their hands on the guy that was breaking the law.

They won't. Bad publicity though might cost them much more, regardless of blame.

[MPH]

7 minutes ago, Merging Cultures said:

It really was, especially the being driven part, it was only a 5 hour drive. Not sure about another airline though.

 

They stopped at $800 for the compensation, they could and should have gone higher. Watch no one budge the next time they are asked, at least it gets into the real money!!!

 

Also, usually bumping happens at the gate, not when your seated, that was quite unusual.

That would be considered paid work as they were being asked to go to a different airport... which would of course delayed the flight they were trying to run even futher. Even more so infact because they would of then had to rest before starting work at the other place....

[Sharpe's Fox]

 

the state of this man

[Merging Cultures]

Just now, Sharpe's Fox said:

Who cares. You've been chosen, unfortunately. The captain has jurisdiction so it's a case of ding ding ding, weird screaming Asian manchild come on down!

That's an odd thing to say. He probably felt (quite rightly it turns out) that he was being man handled unfairly. I think I'd make some noise too in the same situation.

[Merging Cultures]

Just now, MPH said:

That would be considered paid work as they were being asked to go to a different airport... which would of course delayed the flight they were trying to run even futher. Even more so infact because they would of then had to rest before starting work at the other place....

Actually, I am not sure that is true. 

 

There are rules about driving, but I am not sure about the rules of being driven.

 

And I am not sure that their flight was an immediate turn around at the other end, I believe they were flying out on Monday morning. But again, will see if I can check my facts on that.

[MPH]

2 minutes ago, Merging Cultures said:

That's an odd thing to say. He probably felt (quite rightly it turns out) that he was being man handled unfairly. I think I'd make some noise too in the same situation.

 

 

Has that been proven/ admitted to?

 

 

i guess i am saying how do you fairly handle someone who is refusing to leave their seat and you, as a policeman have been asked to remove him by the airline?

[Sharpe's Fox]

1 minute ago, Merging Cultures said:

That's an odd thing to say. He probably felt (quite rightly it turns out) that he was being man handled unfairly. I think I'd make some noise too in the same situation.

He only got manhandled because the captain had to call the authorities. If the bloke had any dignity about him he'd take it as a bad day and walk off but no he had to make a scene about it. It it were me obviously I'd be fuming but I wouldn't lower myself to that standard.

[Dr The Singh]

11 minutes ago, Merging Cultures said:

It really was, especially the being driven part, it was only a 5 hour drive. Not sure about another airline though.

 

They stopped at $800 for the compensation, they could and should have gone higher. Watch no one budge the next time they are asked, at least it gets into the real money!!!

 

Also, usually bumping happens at the gate, not when your seated, that was quite unusual.

5 hour is obviously risk to the further planning schedule, and hence the logical thing to do is to find space on the least risk option which was the flight.  Not saying it's wrong, or right, but from a risks and business perspective, it could be the right thing to do.

 

$800 compo, enough or not enough is something for the individual.  The guy could have e walked off and and got alot more then $800 that's for sure.