Strokes Posted 22 May 2017 Share Posted 22 May 2017 2 minutes ago, Webbo said: Come back prodigal son, you can't seriously be considering voting for these loons? I'm certainly not voting Conservative Webbo, that manifesto is insulting but no I don't think I can vote for anyone this time. Don't you think they've taken your vote as a given here and offered you nothing back but a kick in the knackers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpe's Fox Posted 22 May 2017 Share Posted 22 May 2017 I was wrong. Neil is stringing up Theresa May on this. She is completely inept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 22 May 2017 Share Posted 22 May 2017 11 minutes ago, Webbo said: Did you read the Times article? We're not talking about the Iraq War and this attempt to excuse his behaviour by some sort of moral equivalence is beneath you Alf. We've got The Guardian, The Telegraph and The Times saying he wasn't trying to bring about peace. We only need toddybads mate off twitter to agree and we've got every heavyweight commentator going So supporting a group of partisans who sometimes blew up civilians and supporting a war that led to thousands of deaths and grotesque human rights abuses (oh, and cuddling up to the biggest power in that region that still carries out human rights abuses now) are not morally equivalent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 22 May 2017 Share Posted 22 May 2017 40 minutes ago, Webbo said: Did you read the Times article? We're not talking about the Iraq War and this attempt to excuse his behaviour by some sort of moral equivalence is beneath you Alf. We've got The Guardian, The Telegraph and The Times saying he wasn't trying to bring about peace. We only need toddybads mate off twitter to agree and we've got every heavyweight commentator going ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 22 May 2017 Share Posted 22 May 2017 26 minutes ago, leicsmac said: So supporting a group of partisans who sometimes blew up civilians and supporting a war that led to thousands of deaths and grotesque human rights abuses (oh, and cuddling up to the biggest power in that region that still carries out human rights abuses now) are not morally equivalent? Not really no, they were fed the same lies that the electorate (that re elected them) were. So were more than likely doing so in good faith of WMDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 22 May 2017 Share Posted 22 May 2017 32 minutes ago, Strokes said: I'm certainly not voting Conservative Webbo, that manifesto is insulting but no I don't think I can vote for anyone this time. Don't you think they've taken your vote as a given here and offered you nothing back but a kick in the knackers? tbh the social care thing had to be tackled, whether that solution was the best I don't know but I was glad they had an actual plan, the pension lock and not promising to not to raise tax didn't bother me either, I believe the deficit should be tackled, if taxes have to go up a bit so be it, it'd be worse under Labour. I didn't like the anti individualistic tone of the manifesto and the plan to intervene in industry but who else am I going to vote for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ousefox Posted 22 May 2017 Share Posted 22 May 2017 I'm glad May is finally getting found out after nobody really knew who she was and assumed she's the safe pair of hands some of the media have tried to portray her as. She's weak, inept and a liar. Can't wait to see Paxman vs May and Corbyn. It should be great television. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 22 May 2017 Share Posted 22 May 2017 Paxman is a tory voter but he's also a pro. I think corbyn could win that. Thing is i think 80% of the population don't really give a shit about politics and it might not matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 22 May 2017 Share Posted 22 May 2017 31 minutes ago, leicsmac said: So supporting a group of partisans who sometimes blew up civilians and supporting a war that led to thousands of deaths and grotesque human rights abuses (oh, and cuddling up to the biggest power in that region that still carries out human rights abuses now) are not morally equivalent? It's a separate issue. When you're criticising Trumps health care policy I don't say well Obama bombed Libya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 22 May 2017 Share Posted 22 May 2017 8 minutes ago, Webbo said: tbh the social care thing had to be tackled, whether that solution was the best I don't know but I was glad they had an actual plan, the pension lock and not promising to not to raise tax didn't bother me either, I believe the deficit should be tackled, if taxes have to go up a bit so be it, it'd be worse under Labour. I didn't like the anti individualistic tone of the manifesto and the plan to intervene in industry but who else am I going to vote for? Something does have to be done about social care but an inheritance tax isn't the way to go, the manifesto just isn't right. Where it does have merits it's so vague you can't nail them down on it. It feels to me, like they are taking us for mugs. They don't need to chuck us a bone because we are guaranteed votes, I'm sorry but I'm not playing. Its a shame UKIP have gone BNP light otherwise I'd have had no problem voting for them. As it is, I'm drawing a huge penis (I'll trace my own )on my ballot paper before posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 22 May 2017 Share Posted 22 May 2017 1 minute ago, Strokes said: Something does have to be done about social care but an inheritance tax isn't the way to go, the manifesto just isn't right. Where it does have merits it's so vague you can't nail them down on it. It feels to me, like they are taking us for mugs. They don't need to chuck us a bone because we are guaranteed votes, I'm sorry but I'm not playing. Its a shame UKIP have gone BNP light otherwise I'd have had no problem voting for them. As it is, I'm drawing a huge penis on my ballot paper before posting. It was very disappointing, I can't disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 22 May 2017 Share Posted 22 May 2017 11 minutes ago, Strokes said: Not really no, they were fed the same lies that the electorate (that re elected them) were. So were more than likely doing so in good faith of WMDs. Corbyn knew well enough to say no and to not be fooled, though. That being said, hindsight is hindsight. 6 minutes ago, Webbo said: It's a separate issue. When you're criticising Trumps health care policy I don't say well Obama bombed Libya. I wouldn't pull you up if you did - one of the things I definitely thought was bad about the Obama administration. (Of course, this one is shaping up to be far worse). Having said that, it's expressing support for a course of action that is going to lead to multiple civilian death in support of a political objective: I'm not entirely sure the two situations are that dissimilar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1742 Posted 22 May 2017 Share Posted 22 May 2017 11 minutes ago, Watson said: I'm glad May is finally getting found out after nobody really knew who she was and assumed she's the safe pair of hands some of the media have tried to portray her as. She's weak, inept and a liar. Can't wait to see Paxman vs May and Corbyn. It should be great television. May is woeful, her stance on how she intends to negotiate brexit proves this. Then there is Corbyn. For the people that vote, what a dreadful choice you have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 22 May 2017 Share Posted 22 May 2017 5 minutes ago, Webbo said: It was very disappointing, I can't disagree. How the hell has she managed to alienate so many, with that lead in the polls. All she had to do was throw a few little gifts about, keep her trap shut and it was in the bag. I was looking forward to a big conservative majority, crashing out the EU with a big fùck you to ze germans and undergoing some classic Thatcherism. She needs her fùcking head removing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 22 May 2017 Share Posted 22 May 2017 1 minute ago, Strokes said: How the hell has she managed to alienate so many, with that lead in the polls. All she had to do was throw a few little gifts about, keep her trap shut and it was in the bag. I was looking forward to a big conservative majority, crashing out the EU with a big fùck you to ze germans and undergoing some classic Thatcherism. She needs her fùcking head removing. All you can say is is she was honest. Maybe that was a mistake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 22 May 2017 Share Posted 22 May 2017 7 minutes ago, leicsmac said: Corbyn knew well enough to say no and to not be fooled, though. That being said, hindsight is hindsight. He has protested and been anti all government things most of his career, he is bound to get some of them right. Let's credit him with not voting for the common market whilst we are at it, he was definitely right that time too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 22 May 2017 Share Posted 22 May 2017 2 minutes ago, Webbo said: All you can say is is she was honest. Maybe that was a mistake? If there was any substance to the manifesto I'd probably agree but where is it? She has botched it, big time. They clearly were not ready but called it thinking that it doesn't matter because Labour are so weak. This makes them foolish......and weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 22 May 2017 Share Posted 22 May 2017 5 minutes ago, Strokes said: If there was any substance to the manifesto I'd probably agree but where is it? She has botched it, big time. They clearly were not ready but called it thinking that it doesn't matter because Labour are so weak. This makes them foolish......and weak. She won't debate, tries to avoid the public, every policy is subject to some sort of review and she doesn't really answer any questions unless it's with one of the lynton crosby authorised responses. Ridiculous that anybody would vote for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopfkino Posted 22 May 2017 Share Posted 22 May 2017 May's problem stems from the fact she insists on having a small and closed group of confidents, so whilst this may give her a feeling of security and trust, it has distanced her from cabinet and her party. It's shown in her desire to make this presidential which doesn't necessarily work in a system so heavily entrenched in party politics. Changing her mind after sending ministers out to defend it is only going to make the matter worse. The social care policy was apparently a late entry and it shows, because whilst on the face of it its actually not a shabby policy (in my opinion), it doesn't seem to have been well thought through or sold. They thought that this election was going to be about Brexit, a misguided thought given that they were going to have to release a manifesto to be scrutinised on a range of things and once manifestos were launched, the path was always going to change slightly. I still believe in the last few days it will come down to Brexit but even then, they haven't done themselves any favours. It's difficult to trust her on Brexit when she relies so heavily on a closed circle which has shown clear deficiencies in the last week, whilst also having a record of backing down easily (the budget, the calling of an election, this social care plan). I'm not at all a fan of the manifesto, I've never particularly like May and I don't like the vision she has for the Conservative Party or the next five years, but there really is nowhere else for my vote to go. My vote will make no difference in either seat I can vote in so I could spoil my ballot with a message for the Conservative Party but I don't really care for the party enough to make my feelings heard. Now, whilst I'm not entirely in agreement with the Libertarian Party, they probably would get my vote but I think they're only standing in 4 or 5 seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 22 May 2017 Share Posted 22 May 2017 12 minutes ago, Webbo said: All you can say is is she was honest. Maybe that was a mistake? She lied through her teeth, claiming that there was always going to be a cap, that it was in the manifesto. She couldn't even spell honesty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webbo Posted 22 May 2017 Share Posted 22 May 2017 8 minutes ago, Buce said: She lied through her teeth, claiming that there was always going to be a cap, that it was in the manifesto. She couldn't even spell honesty. The manifesto was honest, what happen subsequently I'm not sure, I've not really caught the news today. All I know is what I've read on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 22 May 2017 Share Posted 22 May 2017 9 minutes ago, Webbo said: The manifesto was honest, what happen subsequently I'm not sure, I've not really caught the news today. All I know is what I've read on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 22 May 2017 Share Posted 22 May 2017 1 hour ago, Strokes said: But we will always have poverty if it is a relative term. I'm not saying there arent people struggling but to couple it with a term that is also given to people without water or absolute basics is bullshit imo. You're just arguing over semantics, Strokes. You are not free of poverty just because others are living in a more absolute poverty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 22 May 2017 Share Posted 22 May 2017 46 minutes ago, Strokes said: He has protested and been anti all government things most of his career, he is bound to get some of them right. Let's credit him with not voting for the common market whilst we are at it, he was definitely right that time too. Ha! Broken clocks and all that, huh? Well...it's better to be right in some places than others, I would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 22 May 2017 Share Posted 22 May 2017 1 minute ago, leicsmac said: Ha! Broken clocks and all that, huh? Well...it's better to be right in some places than others, I would think. George Galloway was correct on this too, he is still a massive ball bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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