General Election, June 8th

[ramboacdc]

i just had a pollster ring me....thats a first. 

[MPH]

52 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

That person was a sitting MP, however.

 

It's certainly possible, though - and if that happens it will be highly distasteful.

 

It's a possibility, I guess - but like you said, who knows? We're going to have to wait and see.

 

 

It would indeed be highly distasteful..

[RobHawk]

I do think it will have an impact purely because (as matt says) it moves the debate forward away from the social care issues. Its a terrible thing to happen, but politically i think its ended any slimmer of hope corbyn may have had. The tides were slowly turning, but they still had a long way to go and needed to drive things forward. After yesterday, i think the momentum will be gone. (mo pun intended

 

Not that the election feels that important after yesterdays events. 

[Rincewind]

I also agree with Matt. With respect to the families how can campaigners speak of other issues when going door to door when they are asked 'what are you going to do about the terrorists?' It will only be after the election that other issues will be regarded as inportant.

[Webbo]

8 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

I was doing no such thing.

 

I was responding to your post in which you excused the Tories of any responsibility for the Iraq War. I agreed that Bush & Blair were mainly responsible. But I pointed out that it raised question marks over Theresa May's judgment that she believed the "false prospectus" presented by Alistair Campbell and others - when millions of citizens and hundreds of MPs (including some Tories) did NOT believe that prospectus. An opposition has a responsibility to show good judgment as well as a government (and I've criticised this Labour opposition often enough). 

 

Before that, as @Carl the Llama pointed out, I was trying to point out the logical fallacy of your argument that Corbyn having associated with Republicans or campaigned for Troops Out constituted proof of his support for terrorism and knee-capping. The only equivalence that I sought to draw was between that illogical argument and the illogical argument that, because you support the Tories, you support everything that any Tory ever does - such as approving the Iraq invasion.

 

Anyway, as I've said, I'd prefer to discuss the important issues involved in this election (Brexit, economy, tax, public services, care, ISIS, immigration etc.). So, unless you produce direct quotations of Corbyn supporting IRA terrorism, I'll ignore any further posts on that issue. Given the pending Brexit negotiations and their potential consequences, this is a massively important election. So, I'd like to move on from Corbyn 80s/90s - and Blair/May 2003.

Will you admit that there's a difference between a democratic govt having a vote to depose a dictator and a terrorist organisation attacking civilians in a democracy? It's not like people in N.I don't have a vote.

 

You're saying that because I support the tories I'm the same as Corbyn. I never went to a rally, I never stood on a platform with murderers, I've never been in an organisation that willed a defeat of a democratic country. It's a desperately poor comparison.

 

The question was is Corbyn a supporter of the IRA, I've provided links that would suggest he was, they've been conveniently ignored. You've told me that the eyewitness to the peace process who said he was, was just jealous. 

 

Where are your links, where's the evidence that anything Corbyn has done has promoted peace in any way? If you were sure of your argument you wouldn't keep deflecting, talking about Iraq, Jimmy Savile and what John Major thinks of Ian Duncan Smith. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Webbo said:

Will you admit that there's a difference between a democratic govt having a vote to depose a dictator and a terrorist organisation attacking civilians in a democracy? It's not like people in N.I don't have a vote.

 

You're saying that because I support the tories I'm the same as Corbyn. I never went to a rally, I never stood on a platform with murderers, I've never been in an organisation that willed a defeat of a democratic country. It's a desperately poor comparison.

 

The question was is Corbyn a supporter of the IRA, I've provided links that would suggest he was, they've been conveniently ignored. You've told me that the eyewitness to the peace process who said he was, was just jealous. 

 

Where are your links, where's the evidence that anything Corbyn has done has promoted peace in any way? If you were sure of your argument you wouldn't keep deflecting, talking about Iraq, Jimmy Savile and what John Major thinks of Ian Duncan Smith. 

Webbo ffs nobody cares.

There's been a real attack in the here and now and i suspect most people are more interested in what our leaders have say about the threats we face at this very moment. 

 

[Buce]

1 minute ago, toddybad said:

Webbo ffs nobody cares.

There's been a real attack in the here and now and i suspect most people are more interested in what our leaders have say about the threats we face at this very moment. 

 

 

Life goes on, otherwise the terrorists win.

[Webbo]

7 hours ago, Swan Lesta said:

 

No.

 

*Takes breath....

 

I'm concerned that for the past 5 pages you are digging yourself a pit. I know you do not lack the ability to critically reason and reflect on the responses that have been put to your labelling of Corbyn though you seemingly on this occasion are not willing to do so. You have ploughed on with the same 'no smoke without fire' argument without seemingly critically grasping or reflecting on the points being made to you. I get that us lefties annoy you and you are frustrated by us but please bear in mind that the responses to your depictions of Corbyn are being made by people that don't even particularly like, rate or support him......

 

 

*Sigh*

 

Did you read the links I provided? Just because you ignore the evidence doesn't mean you've won the argument. Don't you think it's a little suspicious that even now he won't condemn the IRA?

[Buce]

7 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Will you admit that there's a difference between a democratic govt having a vote to depose a dictator and a terrorist organisation attacking civilians in a democracy? It's not like people in N.I don't have a vote.

 

You're saying that because I support the tories I'm the same as Corbyn. I never went to a rally, I never stood on a platform with murderers, I've never been in an organisation that willed a defeat of a democratic country. It's a desperately poor comparison.

 

The question was is Corbyn a supporter of the IRA, I've provided links that would suggest he was, they've been conveniently ignored. You've told me that the eyewitness to the peace process who said he was, was just jealous. 

 

Where are your links, where's the evidence that anything Corbyn has done has promoted peace in any way? If you were sure of your argument you wouldn't keep deflecting, talking about Iraq, Jimmy Savile and what John Major thinks of Ian Duncan Smith. 

 

Try re-reading what Alf said, Webbo, because you're just not getting it.

 

 

[Webbo]

2 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Try re-reading what Alf said, Webbo, because you're just not getting it.

 

 

I'm getting it, I just don't agree with it.

[Rincewind]

Surely if you are getting something then you are agreeing with it unless you are not agreeing with yourself when you say you dont agree with what you are getting.

Or something like that.

[leicsmac]

23 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Will you admit that there's a difference between a democratic govt having a vote to depose a dictator and a terrorist organisation attacking civilians in a democracy? It's not like people in N.I don't have a vote.

 

You're saying that because I support the tories I'm the same as Corbyn. I never went to a rally, I never stood on a platform with murderers, I've never been in an organisation that willed a defeat of a democratic country. It's a desperately poor comparison.

 

The question was is Corbyn a supporter of the IRA, I've provided links that would suggest he was, they've been conveniently ignored. You've told me that the eyewitness to the peace process who said he was, was just jealous. 

 

Where are your links, where's the evidence that anything Corbyn has done has promoted peace in any way? If you were sure of your argument you wouldn't keep deflecting, talking about Iraq, Jimmy Savile and what John Major thinks of Ian Duncan Smith. 

 

A person as part of a group made a decision. That group took it upon themselves, because of intelligence they had, to make that decision. Because of that decision, many innocent lives were lost.

 

Where, exactly, is the difference here? That one of those groups were chosen by other groups of people and therefore their decision sudddenly has more merit? That the enemy they faced was more evil (pardon for using such a subjective term)?

 

Moral highground when it comes to matters involving the deaths of lots of innocent people - no matter the circumstance - is a bit of a sandbank, IMO.

[Sharpe's Fox]

Think we all know Webster's plans this weekend 

 

[Webbo]

2 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

Think we all know Webster's plans this weekend 

 

Just be careful you or I'm going to start using question marks.

[Nick]

29 minutes ago, Webbo said:

*Sigh*

 

Did you read the links I provided? Just because you ignore the evidence doesn't mean you've won the argument. Don't you think it's a little suspicious that even now he won't condemn the IRA?

 

I read all the links you provided - they didn't however evidence the same conclusions which you drew from them.

 

*Has transient ischaemic attack whilst searching for face palm memes*

[Webbo]

Just now, Swan Lesta said:

 

I read all the links you provided - they didn't however evidence the same conclusions which you drew from them.

 

*Has transient ischaemic attack whilst searching for face palm memes*

What did you think of Dianne Abbott's comments?

[Nick]

Just now, Webbo said:

What did you think of Dianne Abbott's comments?

I think both Corbyn and Abbott are both political activists with a history of poor judgement.

 

I don't think either of them support or condone murder, terror, knee-capping, violence or recreational bombing.

[Buce]

34 minutes ago, Webbo said:

I'm getting it, I just don't agree with it.

 

The sentence I bolded suggests otherwise.

[Webbo]

3 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

I think both Corbyn and Abbott are both political activists with a history of poor judgement.

 

I don't think either of them support or condone murder, terror, knee-capping, violence or recreational bombing.

Quote

 Ireland “is our struggle — every defeat of the British state is a victory for all of us. A defeat in Northern Ireland would be a defeat indeed.”

Defeat how? What about John McDonnell;

Quote

 "It's about time we started honouring those people involved in the armed struggle. It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table.

Tbf, he has now apologised.

[Buce]

7 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

 

I read all the links you provided - they didn't however evidence the same conclusions which you drew from them.

 

*Has transient ischaemic attack whilst searching for face palm memes*

 

Will this one do?

 

[Alf Bentley]

4 hours ago, Webbo said:

Will you admit that there's a difference between a democratic govt having a vote to depose a dictator and a terrorist organisation attacking civilians in a democracy? It's not like people in N.I don't have a vote.

 

You're saying that because I support the tories I'm the same as Corbyn. I never went to a rally, I never stood on a platform with murderers, I've never been in an organisation that willed a defeat of a democratic country. It's a desperately poor comparison.

 

The question was is Corbyn a supporter of the IRA, I've provided links that would suggest he was, they've been conveniently ignored. You've told me that the eyewitness to the peace process who said he was, was just jealous. 

 

Where are your links, where's the evidence that anything Corbyn has done has promoted peace in any way? If you were sure of your argument you wouldn't keep deflecting, talking about Iraq, Jimmy Savile and what John Major thinks of Ian Duncan Smith. 

 

I'll answer that last point as I've not done so before: I don't believe Corbyn promoted peace - and have never said that I did. He promoted particular causes (Troops Out, united Ireland) that I found naive, at least without peace, cross-community agreement and a democratic veto for North & South - causes that had little impact on the peace process. I agree with Swan Lesta's assessment (below).

 

I didn't say that Mallon was "just jealous". I said that, to my limited knowledge, he was an honourable politician (who I'd have probably voted for ahead of Corbyn). But I said that he had an axe to grind and speculated that he might have resented Corbyn's support for Sinn Fein, the main rival to Mallon's own party (SDLP), so might have spoken loosely.

 

For the rest, I'd just refer you back to my previous post.  I don't accept your claim to have produced evidence that Corbyn supported the IRA and knee-capping as you rely on guilt by association. I refuse to pursue your other arguments as they're at complete cross-purposes with what I was saying.

 

Now let's move on. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Swan Lesta said:

I think both Corbyn and Abbott are both political activists with a history of poor judgement.

 

I don't think either of them support or condone murder, terror, knee-capping, violence or recreational bombing.

 

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Now let's move on. 

 

 

 

Hallelujah!

[theessexfox]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/conservatives-oil-bosses-party-donations-fossil-fuels-climate-change-ayman-asfari-petrofac-serious-a7751521.html

 

The sort of link between business and government which I guess we all know about but makes me a little uneasy. Particularly when it's possibly at the expense of further investing in renewables. 

[Guest]

This is a year old but the fact we ever reached this point is yet another (as if any more were needed) indictment of this callous government.

 

 

[Rincewind]

I think its sad that he spoke with Hunt for over a hour and felt he was not being listened to.