General Election, June 8th

[Dr The Singh]

8 hours ago, MattP said:

We must all come together. Hope, not hate. Nothing to do with Islam. Nothing to do with Muslims. Just a rogue individual, possibly in the employ of some mysterious foreign agency. Just terrorism, bad people. Unaligned wickedness. Nothing to do with religion. We must all come together. And show love. And solidarity. Hope not hate.

Je Suis Ariana Grande. Already viciousness is being expressed on social media sites. People jumping to all sorts of conclusions. Horrible, horrible, people – no better than the murderer. Who might just as easily have been a Methodist. Remember Jo Cox? That wasn’t them, was it? There, you see.

So we should come together. Hope not hate. Nothing to do with Islam. Nothing to do with Muslims. Just horridness of no discernible provenance. Hope not hate.

 

(Lifted from the great Rod L)

We all agree with love thy human and all that, no one disagrees, but this solves nothing....the first thing to solving a problem is acknowledging that there is a problem, and there defo is a problem in the Muslim community.  So do we all agree there is something to do with Islam, or shall we brush it under the carpet?

[davieG]

Poll Tracker

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39856354

 

26 May: Gap narrows further

Two new polls published on Thursday night suggest a further continuation of the trend we've seen throughout the campaign so far. The gap between the Conservatives and Labour has narrowed again. It's down to eight points in Kantar Public's poll and just five points in YouGov's - smaller than the actual gap between the parties at the 2015 election.

The Manchester attack has, rightly, meant that the country's attention has been focused away from the election. But as the campaign resumes, it's inevitable that people will ask whether it's had an effect on how people might vote.

So it's important to note that Kantar Public's poll was conducted before the attack, but YouGov's was done afterwards - on Wednesday and Thursday.

That doesn't mean we can say that the latest shift is related to the attack.

Theresa May has consistently had a strong lead over Jeremy Corbyn on the issues of defence and security. That hasn't changed. YouGov found that 55% of respondents trusted Theresa May to make the right decisions to keep Britain safe from terrorism compared to just 33% who trusted Jeremy Corbyn.

It's possible that the polls are still reacting to the fallout of the manifesto launches last week - and the revisions to the Conservatives' social care plans announced on Monday (they denied it was a U-turn). There could also just be an element of natural polling variation.

Whatever the cause, the important thing to remember is to look at the general trend rather than concentrating too much on individual polls. The Conservatives retain a clear lead over Labour but the gap has closed significantly.

[Guest Foxin_mad]

8 hours ago, MattP said:

 

 

The bookies still have Corbyn at 8/1 to be PM, that's worth a few quid for any Tories to drown sorrows if the worst has.

Might put my savings on that as a lot of people will inevitably lose their jobs if the useless tosser gets in. I wonder is he has some universal payment tax credit off the money tree for me?

[Guest Foxin_mad]

2 hours ago, toddybad said:

Yeah, I realise that. I was just waiting for somebody to say that there was positive news about the Tories in other papers.

I'm actually starting to think that Miliband could have romped home this time around with the government seemingly all at sea.

There is a lot of stuff in various papers from the CBI and IFS about labours shocking tax grabs will cause the economy to fall apart and unemployment to rise. Here is something from the IFS about how the Corporation tax increase may lead eventually to them taking less in receipts.

 

https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/9206

 

How will they fund all their spending?? yet more borrowing!

[Sharpe's Fox]

11 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said:

There is a lot of stuff in various papers from the CBI and IFS about labours shocking tax grabs will cause the economy to fall apart and unemployment to rise. Here is something from the IFS about how the Corporation tax increase may lead eventually to them taking less in receipts.

 

https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/9206

 

How will they fund all their spending?? yet more borrowing!

Yeah but when JC bags the win the meme economy will rocket up sooo

[Alf Bentley]

18 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said:

There is a lot of stuff in various papers from the CBI and IFS about labours shocking tax grabs will cause the economy to fall apart and unemployment to rise. Here is something from the IFS about how the Corporation tax increase may lead eventually to them taking less in receipts.

 

https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/9206

 

How will they fund all their spending?? yet more borrowing!

 

I don't know whether Labour's plan to increase Corporation Tax from 20% to 26% over a few years will be beneficial or detrimental to the UK economy overall.

 

This table is interesting, though, as it shows that 26% is certainly NOT outrageous by European standards (much higher in France, Germany & Italy).

As someone who expects Brexit to have a negative impact on the UK economy, my instinct is that 26% might be too high - but Brexiteers anticipating a glorious future of new trade deals presumably won't share my pessimism? 

 

http://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/706119/Where-in-Europe-has-the-highest-corporate-tax-rates-UK-compared-with-EU-members

 

EU tax rates ranked in order of highest to lowest
1. Malta, 35 per cent
2. Belgium, 33.99 per cent
3. France, 33.3 per cent
4. Italy, 31.4 per cent
5. Germany, 29.72 per cent
6. Luxembourg, 29.22 per cent
7. Greece, 29 per cent
8 / 9 /10. Austria / Netherlands / Spain, 25 per cent
11/12 /13. Denmark / Slovakia / Sweden, 22 per cent
14. Portugal, 21 per cent
15 / 16 / 17 / 18. Britain / Croatia / Estonia / Finland, 20 per cent
19 / 20 / 21. Czech Republic / Hungary / Poland, 19 per cent
22. Slovenia, 17 per cent
23. Romania, 16 per cent
24 / 25. Latvia / Lithuania, 15 per cent 
26 / 27. Cyprus / Ireland 12.5 per cent
28. Bulgaria, 10 per cent

[Alf Bentley]

Sounds as if Corbyn's interview with Andrew Neill is going ahead at 7pm tonight.

Should be well worth watching. Neill really is a top performer so this interview will be a big risk for Corbyn.

 

He will have done very well if he manages:

(1) to avoid making a major gaffe that dominates headlines/campaigning for several days;

(2) to perform not quite as badly as Theresa May

[Guest Foxin_mad]

Higher corporate tax will be detrimental, lower tax will definitely lead to more jobs, more investment in the UK.

 

With the minimum wage raising, tax increases what incentive is there to operate in the UK.? Bearing in mind our productivity is low, our red tape is high.

 

The economy across Europe with the exception of Germany is floundering, the new French president is suggesting lower corporation taxes in France which will make them more competitive. High tax has never and will never work.

 

I wonder how long the comrade can pay for me and other comrades not to have a job.

[Rincewind]

Do you think pro Tory media won't find a few negative words for a headline regardless of all the positive words?

 

I thought corporation tax was recently lowered from 30% to 20% so raising it will mean that it has still been lowered.

[Guest MattP]

16 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

I don't know whether Labour's plan to increase Corporation Tax from 20% to 26% over a few years will be beneficial or detrimental to the UK economy overall.

 

This table is interesting, though, as it shows that 26% is certainly NOT outrageous by European standards (much higher in France, Germany & Italy).

As someone who expects Brexit to have a negative impact on the UK economy, my instinct is that 26% might be too high - but Brexiteers anticipating a glorious future of new trade deals presumably won't share my pessimism? 

 

http://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/706119/Where-in-Europe-has-the-highest-corporate-tax-rates-UK-compared-with-EU-members

 

EU tax rates ranked in order of highest to lowest
1. Malta, 35 per cent
2. Belgium, 33.99 per cent
3. France, 33.3 per cent
4. Italy, 31.4 per cent
5. Germany, 29.72 per cent
6. Luxembourg, 29.22 per cent
7. Greece, 29 per cent
8 / 9 /10. Austria / Netherlands / Spain, 25 per cent
11/12 /13. Denmark / Slovakia / Sweden, 22 per cent
14. Portugal, 21 per cent
15 / 16 / 17 / 18. Britain / Croatia / Estonia / Finland, 20 per cent
19 / 20 / 21. Czech Republic / Hungary / Poland, 19 per cent
22. Slovenia, 17 per cent
23. Romania, 16 per cent
24 / 25. Latvia / Lithuania, 15 per cent 
26 / 27. Cyprus / Ireland 12.5 per cent
28. Bulgaria, 10 per cent

A big part of the Macron campaign was a massive reduction to this, down to 15% at one point. As we've said it's unlikely that will go through to that level as he'll face opposition but whatever happens it has to be imperative we remain competitive, Brexit or no Brexit.

 

Very surprised at the German rate although I suppose with the industry they have combined with a currency being kept low it's still well worth doing business there. Incredible effort to be running a surplus in this day and age.

 

11 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

Sounds as if Corbyn's interview with Andrew Neill is going ahead at 7pm tonight.

Should be well worth watching. Neill really is a top performer so this interview will be a big risk for Corbyn.

Looking forward to it, the Friday night 7.30 slot is a big one, I've noticed no one has tweeted from the account that he's on and I can't find anything on his JC4PM page advertising the interview.

 

Can't think why? (In the interest of balance the Tories didn't advertise May either, why would you? No one comes out of these with much credit)

 

4 minutes ago, Rincewind said:

Do you think pro Tory media won't find a few negative words for a headline regardless of all the positive words?

 

I thought corporation tax was recently lowered from 30% to 20% so raising it will mean that it has still been lowered.

It was 30% back in 2007, this government reduced it from 20% to 19%.

 

https://www.figurewizard.com/list-uk-corporation-tax-rates.html

[Guest Foxin_mad]

The best for jobs, business and inward investment is for it to be one of the most competitive in the world. Punishing business will not achieve anything. Labour never learn under their manifesto this will be a  really shit place to operate a business once again.

- high tax

- high red tape

- high employment costs

- powerful unions

[Guest MattP]

Corbyn speech is going to say we need to "fight terrorism rather than fuel it" - a desire I'd imagine we all have.

 

Hoping for some serious policy detail on how he is going to go about this, I thought he would be doing everything he could to steer the debate away from National security rather than actually get deeper into it.

 

Or maybe he has just started to realise there is a chance he could be Prime Minister and needs to lose some votes ASAP?

[EnderbyFox]

[Guest Foxin_mad]

Its disgusting if Corbyn goes with the stance of blaming May for the Terror attacks.

 

He voted against 13 new Terror laws being introduced.

 

Strange also that a lot of the terrorist come from Labour heartlands, so obviously they are letting some down in those areas.

 

Of course you could argue the unfiltered mass immigration which he supports has put too much strain on the countries services as we are allowing too many people in who are unable to contribute. I have no problem with skilled immigration but on the flip side we have unskilled immigration to areas with already high unemployment, this puts pressure on schools, drs, hospitals, police forces etc but there is not extra tax in the coffers. These deprived labour areas are a hotbed for extremism.

[ramboacdc]

6 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said:

Its disgusting if Corbyn goes with the stance of blaming May for the Terror attacks.

 

He voted against 13 new Terror laws being introduced.

 

Strange also that a lot of the terrorist come from Labour heartlands, so obviously they are letting some down in those areas.

 

Of course you could argue the unfiltered mass immigration which he supports has put too much strain on the countries services as we are allowing too many people in who are unable to contribute. I have no problem with skilled immigration but on the flip side we have unskilled immigration to areas with already high unemployment, this puts pressure on schools, drs, hospitals, police forces etc but there is not extra tax in the coffers. These deprived labour areas are a hotbed for extremism.

he wont go for blaming her for the terror attacks. thats suicide. He will go for more needs to be done to stop it and the tory policy does not go far enough. 

[Guest Foxin_mad]

5 minutes ago, ramboacdc said:

he wont go for blaming her for the terror attacks. thats suicide. He will go for more needs to be done to stop it and the tory policy does not go far enough. 

Don't vote against 13 anti terror laws then!! There is nothing more that labour can do to stop it. What have they been doing in Labour constituencies up and down the country to stop radicalisation of disillusioned youth? This happens in primarily labour controlled councils and was widespread during 13 years of Labour government.

 

Of course nothing was done because the don't want to 'offend' the likes of the Didsbury Mosque registered as a ****ing charity! distributing hateful bile about the countries and values of the west!

[ramboacdc]

6 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said:

Don't vote against 13 anti terror laws then!! There is nothing more that labour can do to stop it. What have they been doing in Labour constituencies up and down the country to stop radicalisation of disillusioned youth? This happens in primarily labour controlled councils and was widespread during 13 years of Labour government.

 

Of course nothing was done because the don't want to 'offend' the likes of the Didsbury Mosque registered as a ****ing charity! distributing hateful bile about the countries and values of the west!

if im honest as a liberal there is nothing we can do about terrorism until this Diaesh cell is eliminated. there isnt much we can do to stop it really because attacking them will cost way too much money and is what they want. 

[Dr The Singh]

3 minutes ago, ramboacdc said:

if im honest as a liberal there is nothing we can do about terrorism until this Diaesh cell is eliminated. there isnt much we can do to stop it really because attacking them will cost way too much money and is what they want. 

Islamic terrorism was here before ISIS, before all queda etc and will remain well after.  

[Alf Bentley]

53 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said:

Higher corporate tax will be detrimental, lower tax will definitely lead to more jobs, more investment in the UK.

 

With the minimum wage raising, tax increases what incentive is there to operate in the UK.? Bearing in mind our productivity is low, our red tape is high.

 

The economy across Europe with the exception of Germany is floundering, the new French president is suggesting lower corporation taxes in France which will make them more competitive. High tax has never and will never work.

 

 

I won't get into an extended debate, as we obviously have very different beliefs - and I don't necessarily support increasing Corporation Tax as far as 26%.

 

However...

- France & many other EU nations are struggling (though we're not heading in a good direction ourselves). But Germany is not - and has higher corporation tax. 

- Romania & Poland have lower corporation tax, yet their economies aren't excelling and they're sending lots of migrant labour abroad

- The Nordic countries have had higher tax rates for decades, but their living standards are among the highest in Europe.....so high tax can and does work with the right combination of other policies: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model#Nordic_welfare_model

 

Tax rates, including Corporation Tax, are a factor in economic and social success but only one of many. 

 

Our red tape will be much, much worse if/when we leave the single market/customs union. Ironically, the loss of economic competitiveness caused by Hard Brexit is one of the reasons why I'm dubious about increasing corporation tax so much.

 

What incentives are there to operate in the UK unless we operate a low-tax, low-pay economy?

- A comparatively wealthy nation with a high demand for goods & services

- A domestic market of 65m consumers,

- A highly developed (if unbalanced) economy with a lot of skilled suppliers

- A comparatively well-educated workforce and high skill levels

- A comparatively stable macroeconomic environment and financial system with less corruption than most

- Proximity to the largest, richest market in the world (though this may be less beneficial post-Brexit)

- The English language, now almost a global second language

If low pay and low tax were the only things that mattered, every single company would already have left the West and moved to Bangladesh or somewhere, not just a lot of low-skilled manufacturing

[Guest Foxin_mad]

2 minutes ago, ramboacdc said:

if im honest as a liberal there is nothing we can do about terrorism until this Diaesh cell is eliminated. there isnt much we can do to stop it really because attacking them will cost way too much money and is what they want. 

This is why this is disgusting behaviour by Corbyn, shows what a vile man he actually is like McDonnell and Abbot. This is cheap point scoring, there could have been 30000 police officers on patrol in Manchester funded by the magic money tree that night and it would not have any difference at all sadly!

 

Can you blames foreign policy, to an extent maybe but they will always hate our western culture, its not their image of the world. We need to stop radicalisation on our own soil if nothing else.

[Guest]

[ramboacdc]

1 minute ago, Dr The Singh said:

Islamic terrorism was here before ISIS, before all queda etc and will remain well after.  

true. it is the take the head of the hydra sort of thing and with instability in the middle east someone will always take hold. just got to hope they aint people who misinterpret the words of their holy book and say they need to kill women and children. 

[Guest Foxin_mad]

7 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

I won't get into an extended debate, as we obviously have very different beliefs - and I don't necessarily support increasing Corporation Tax as far as 26%.

 

However...

- France & many other EU nations are struggling (though we're not heading in a good direction ourselves). But Germany is not - and has higher corporation tax. 

- Romania & Poland have lower corporation tax, yet their economies aren't excelling and they're sending lots of migrant labour abroad

- The Nordic countries have had higher tax rates for decades, but their living standards are among the highest in Europe.....so high tax can and does work with the right combination of other policies: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model#Nordic_welfare_model

 

Tax rates, including Corporation Tax, are a factor in economic and social success but only one of many. 

 

Our red tape will be much, much worse if/when we leave the single market/customs union. Ironically, the loss of economic competitiveness caused by Hard Brexit is one of the reasons why I'm dubious about increasing corporation tax so much.

 

What incentives are there to operate in the UK unless we operate a low-tax, low-pay economy?

- A comparatively wealthy nation with a high demand for goods & services

- A domestic market of 65m consumers,

- A highly developed (if unbalanced) economy with a lot of skilled suppliers

- A comparatively well-educated workforce and high skill levels

- A comparatively stable macroeconomic environment and financial system with less corruption than most

- Proximity to the largest, richest market in the world (though this may be less beneficial post-Brexit)

- The English language, now almost a global second language

If low pay and low tax were the only things that mattered, every single company would already have left the West and moved to Bangladesh or somewhere, not just a lot of low-skilled manufacturing

Germany is in many ways vastly loyal to German manufacturers, go there everyone have German made cars, appliances etc etc, they look after their own. That combined with the well respect products for exports makes them successful but they are a highly efficient, modernised industrial nation. Trying to sell a product to a German as a non German company is tough! I know!

 

Romania and Poland are ex soviet countries, they are growing quickly and some of our jobs have already shifted over there.

 

Again the Nordic countries work because their population is so low it made Socialist principles more manageable, cracks are starting to show now they are suffering mass immigration, now someone is going to have to pay for those extra people who will it be?

[Dr The Singh]

Just now, ramboacdc said:

true. it is the take the head of the hydra sort of thing and with instability in the middle east someone will always take hold. just got to hope they aint people who misinterpret the words of their holy book and say they need to kill women and children. 

I agree ISIS needs to be destroyed, like I said in the other thread, the root cause is Islam interpretation, and Islam itself, something which no-o e seems to want to discuss...... people are too frightened to question the islamic beliefs, at not wanting to be anti islamic or racist, which is sad, and the impact is the Rotherham paedo attacks where people were too scared to associate the paedos as a group of islamic males or gang, hence this has just went under the radar

[Sharpe's Fox]

44 minutes ago, Foxin_mad said:

Its disgusting if Corbyn goes with the stance of blaming May for the Terror attacks.

Yeah mate thats what he's doing ye dafty