General Election, June 8th

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, Webbo said:

People who stand to lose money are a better judge than some theorist. So is the fall in the pound bad or not?

If hard scientists with their own experience aren't trusted anymore, why should the financial soft science experts with their own experience be?

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, toddybad said:

It'll drop, it'll recover.

The economy is in a compete mess at the moment yet stock prices have continued to rise due to qe largely being directed by banks in such a way as to have that effect. There's nothing happening in the real economy which would point to shares being at record highs. The last thing i would want to do is determine social policy based on whether share prices were going up or down. 

Well, we were told a drop in the pound was a disaster.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Well, we were told a drop in the pound was a disaster.

I dont *think* I've ever said that. I don't think so anyway. The fact is this election offers a real choice. Tory represents more of the same. Labour represents something different and, with share prices at record levels, that will obviously be seen as riskier for share prices. It certainly doesn't mean that share prices won't recover. 

I'd also point out that we're talking about a tiny % fall here in comparison to sterling nosediving by a significant amount due to the brexit vote.

 

[Webbo]

3 minutes ago, toddybad said:

I dont *think* I've ever said that. I don't think so anyway. The fact is this election offers a real choice. Tory represents more of the same. Labour represents something different and, with share prices at record levels, that will obviously be seen as riskier for share prices. It certainly doesn't mean that share prices won't recover. 

I'd also point out that we're talking about a tiny % fall here in comparison to sterling nosediving by a significant amount due to the brexit vote.

 

We still have a tory govt. Why are shares at a record high if the economy is the disaster you claim it is?

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Webbo said:

We still have a tory govt. Why are shares at a record high if the economy is the disaster you claim it is?

You'd fallen into the trap of spouting opinion without understanding the subject there

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/investing/shares/ftse-100-hits-record-high-can-last/
 

[LiberalFox]

19 minutes ago, Webbo said:

People who stand to lose money are a better judge than some theorist. So is the fall in the pound bad or not?

 

Not necessarily unless you think we live in a perfect meritocracy. Do you apply the same logic to the decision to vote for Brexit? (Actual Brexit is scheduled for March/April 2019)

 

In this case the fall in the pound means nothing relevant to the election.

[Webbo]

11 minutes ago, toddybad said:

You'd fallen into the trap of spouting opinion without understanding the subject there

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/investing/shares/ftse-100-hits-record-high-can-last/
 

So what was your point about share prices?

[Webbo]

8 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

 

Not necessarily unless you think we live in a perfect meritocracy. Do you apply the same logic to the decision to vote for Brexit? (Actual Brexit is scheduled for March/April 2019)

 

In this case the fall in the pound means nothing relevant to the election.

That's lucky, because it was a sure sign of disaster before.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Webbo said:

So what was your point about share prices?

Diversion. Interesting tactic webbo.

 

No doubt if i ask you to list 5 positives offered by the tories in this campaign you'll be equally reticent to come up with your own answer. 

[Webbo]

Just now, toddybad said:

Diversion. Interesting tactic webbo.

 

No doubt if i ask you to list 5 positives offered by the tories in this campaign you'll be equally reticent to come up with your own answer. 

I asked you a question and you've given me a question. That's a diversion.

 

Labour does offer something different, stupidity. 

[Spiritwalker]

What really pisses me off is the weight given to what people in 'the city' think.

I couldn't give a toss which party a city trader thinks we should be voting for but

TV news channels seem to bombard us with their opinions every election.

[LiberalFox]

2 minutes ago, Webbo said:

That's lucky, because it was a sure sign of disaster before.

 

It's hard to explain but large sudden drops of the value of the pound are usually due to a sudden event occurring that causes uncertainty or is perceived to lower the desirability of the pound.

 

However, it's an open market so the idea that it reflects expert opinion isn't true by virtue of the fact that the market responds to supply and demand.

 

To add to the complication, there's no correct value of the pound. 

 

When the pound fell sharply after the EU referendum it was likely due to 

 

a) The result being unexpected (Doesn't mean anything in isolation) 

b) The result creating huge uncertainty (That's a bad thing)

 

[Guest]

Tbh I'm getting bored of the same circular arguments and i actually must admit i haven't done a particularly good job of making a point above in reality. It's been a long day.  

 

We've done the economy weeks ago. I don't think the economy in terms of shares or sterling is likely to affect the outcome of the election. We could argue all week about whether rises and falls are good, bad or irrelevant but I think what will be more important is the tory narrative of tight public finances vs labour offering significant spending. 

 

Nobody has yet been able to offer a reason to think that continuing down our current path will suddenly realise different results. An argument that relatively slow growth is brilliant when wages are falling strikes me as a pretty poor argument for the status quo. We need something different and labour are offering thst something different.

[LiberalFox]

16 minutes ago, Spiritwalker said:

What really pisses me off is the weight given to what people in 'the city' think.

I couldn't give a toss which party a city trader thinks we should be voting for but

TV news channels seem to bombard us with their opinions every election.

 

The election coverage (not just this one) has seriously led me to reconsider whether state subsidised media is worth it. I used to be very much in favour of keeping the BBC but now I'd definitely vote for scrapping the TV licence.  

[EnderbyFox]

 

[Wymsey]

19 minutes ago, Spiritwalker said:

What really pisses me off is the weight given to what people in 'the city' think.

I couldn't give a toss which party a city trader thinks we should be voting for but

TV news channels seem to bombard us with their opinions every election.

The opinions that should really matter the most are those hard-working, but struggling with debt etc families who are trying to get enough money to pay for decent food on the table and trying to give their young children the best chances in life they could possibly get under them.

 

I.e. The ones that are getting hard done by by paying too much tax and feeling bad when they can't afford to go out with their children etc to do what they want without thinking about money.

 

Getting opinions from highly-paid traders that probably pay a small amount of tax compared to those working in 'lesser' jobs etc, isn't really justifiable as the potential Brexit impact and this election outcome are more likely to potentially affect low-paid individuals/family who deserve more for what they go through.

[LiberalFox]

http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2017/05/lord-ashcroft-my-election-models-probabilities-currently-suggest-a-potential-conservative-majority-of-142.html

 

Lord Ashcroft currently suggesting a 142 Tory Majority 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2017/05/lord-ashcroft-my-election-models-probabilities-currently-suggest-a-potential-conservative-majority-of-142.html

 

Lord Ashcroft currently suggesting a 142 Tory Majority 

He may well be right but that will be catastrophic for everybody.

[Rincewind]

The above (@Wymsewold fox) . Unfortunately we will not hear those voices because it does not sell newspapers. Skivers and workers does.

Sadly you cannot convince someone who has been subjected to misinformation for several years that they have been subjected to misinformation for several years.

No doubt the same will be aimed at me but there is a difference of a view from a mansion window in Middlesex to that of a high-rise flat in Liverpool. You cannot form an honest opinion of either without being there.

[Ian Nacho]

Labour are basically wanting to spend more money than we have, which is what happened last time we got in a recession, with the main focus on income for the government increased taxes for 'richer' people, which in my eyes in unrealistic. The richest percentage will just move their money abroad if they've heavily taxed. I also am sceptical on the 'abolishing' university fee policy. The standards of universities will go right down due to decreased funding, leading to less high quality lecturers, also there will be more applicants due to it being free of cost which will make places hard to come by, if anything university costs should be increased! The Tories generating their income through cuts and using this investment elsewhere, which also affect some areas such as social care and the elderly. Both parties have flaws in my eyes, however I think that the Tories will do more good for the overall economy, which is vital with the uncertainty over Brexit. I agree, they may not do the best for some certain groups of people, who are likely to lose out in the short time, but in the long term, I feel the country will be better off. 

[Rincewind]

10 minutes ago, toddybad said:

He may well be right but that will be catastrophic for everybody.

That is why the election was called. Nothing to do with Brexit. May thought that while there is still an anti-Corbyn feeling among the public and the media there will be a chance of a greater majority enabling her government to pass even more austerity policies far easier than when having a smaller majority.Watch out middle salary earners they are coming after you next.

 

'Then they came for me but there was no one left to speak up for me.'

[RobHawk]

35 minutes ago, gcxttle said:

Labour are basically wanting to spend more money than we have, which is what happened last time we got in a recession, with the main focus on income for the government increased taxes for 'richer' people, which in my eyes in unrealistic. The richest percentage will just move their money abroad if they've heavily taxed. I also am sceptical on the 'abolishing' university fee policy. The standards of universities will go right down due to decreased funding, leading to less high quality lecturers, also there will be more applicants due to it being free of cost which will make places hard to come by, if anything university costs should be increased! The Tories generating their income through cuts and using this investment elsewhere, which also affect some areas such as social care and the elderly. Both parties have flaws in my eyes, however I think that the Tories will do more good for the overall economy, which is vital with the uncertainty over Brexit. I agree, they may not do the best for some certain groups of people, who are likely to lose out in the short time, but in the long term, I feel the country will be better off. 

Are you real?

[LiberalFox]

45 minutes ago, gcxttle said:

Labour are basically wanting to spend more money than we have, which is what happened last time we got in a recession, with the main focus on income for the government increased taxes for 'richer' people, which in my eyes in unrealistic. The richest percentage will just move their money abroad if they've heavily taxed. I also am sceptical on the 'abolishing' university fee policy. The standards of universities will go right down due to decreased funding, leading to less high quality lecturers, also there will be more applicants due to it being free of cost which will make places hard to come by, if anything university costs should be increased! The Tories generating their income through cuts and using this investment elsewhere, which also affect some areas such as social care and the elderly. Both parties have flaws in my eyes, however I think that the Tories will do more good for the overall economy, which is vital with the uncertainty over Brexit. I agree, they may not do the best for some certain groups of people, who are likely to lose out in the short time, but in the long term, I feel the country will be better off. 

Sounds like Project Fear to me.

[Rincewind]

1 hour ago, RobHawk said:

Are you real?

Yes I believe he is. Reads the financial Sun.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, gcxttle said:

Labour are basically wanting to spend more money than we have, which is what happened last time we got in a recession, with the main focus on income for the government increased taxes for 'richer' people, which in my eyes in unrealistic. The richest percentage will just move their money abroad if they've heavily taxed. I also am sceptical on the 'abolishing' university fee policy. The standards of universities will go right down due to decreased funding, leading to less high quality lecturers, also there will be more applicants due to it being free of cost which will make places hard to come by, if anything university costs should be increased! The Tories generating their income through cuts and using this investment elsewhere, which also affect some areas such as social care and the elderly. Both parties have flaws in my eyes, however I think that the Tories will do more good for the overall economy, which is vital with the uncertainty over Brexit. I agree, they may not do the best for some certain groups of people, who are likely to lose out in the short time, but in the long term, I feel the country will be better off. 

You haven't really done any research have you?

 

An economy goes into recession when too little money is going round. The government has had 7 years of taking money out of the economy resulting in falling wages, 20,000 less police officers, an nhs in crisis, schools needing parental help to pay normal costs, an army reduced by 20%, significant numbers needing food banks, and record levels of personal debt. 

 

In relation to student debt, the country had some of the best universities in the world before student loans were brought in. Student debt is, as some of our right wing friends on here have pointed out, effectively a 9% tax on graduates. That's a 9% tax on, for example,  nurses entering a poorly paid profession. No wonder that applications into nursing have dropped like a stone. 

 

This country is falling apart under tory rule. Another 5 years of this and we'll be lucky to have any public services - or public service workers - left.