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Harry - LCFC

General Election, June 8th

By Harry - LCFC, in General Chat

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Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted

I thought this was the Manchester thread btw, maybe we should get back onto the GE.

 

Apologies.

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Lionator

Lionator

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Posted

I can't believe how naive people are to think that British Foreign Policy isn't fractionally responsible for the radicalisation of young UK Muslims. Lee Rigby's killers literally screamed this down a camera, it's not caving in to admit that intervening in other countries without any end game plan is causing instability. The same people who want Tony Blair tried in the Hague for war crimes are now criticising Corbyn. It is also not saying that there aren't massive social issues within the UK Muslim community that leads to radicalisation, which also needs assessing. There is no one solution, but we cannot go on and just ignore what is going on in the world around us.  

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Buce

Buce

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Posted
2 hours ago, ramboacdc said:

people are too scared to ask people. one of my good friends is a muslim and he is the nicest man you could ever meet. i have literally grilled him on some points before and he has debated my back on them in a polite manner. i respect him for it. 

 

the point i would disagree with what you say however is the root cause is islam itself. Any religion i can think of usually is there to promote peace and islam is the same. Its the argument of "are the KKK/WBC all representative of christianity?" the short answer is no and these people who interpret the quoran in this way are not muslims. They are cowards and idiots hiding behind religion going "cant touch us, we are religious." I can only think of one religion in which suicide is an honourable thing to do and that is the samurai religion of Japan (i would say Shinto but i am pretty sure that is wrong) and the taking of anyone's life in any of these is forbidden. 

 

There is no such thing as the samurai religion.

 

2 hours ago, MattP said:

None myself, although I'm not generally a regular attendee of any mosque, but around 110 are thought to be under Wahhabi/Salafi control, and receiving funding from Saudi or allied sources in 2015 - http://www.iaindale.com/posts/2015/06/28/why-wahhabi-salafist-mosques-should-be-banned-from-receiving-foreign-funding

 

The Saudi's also spend 2-3 billion per year on Wahhabist propaganda, I doubt any nation spends that on promoting Britain First style Christianity across the World.

 

:o Who'd have guessed?

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Rincewind

Rincewind

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Posted

Wasn't it Corbyn prior to Iraq who said that if we invaded it would lead to years of unrest in the Middle East, terrorism increase and more refugees? Wise words unless he instigated what has happened to be proved right.

There are many forms of Islam as in other faiths and all of the most peaceful ones that once you spill blood you are no longer a part of that faith.

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Finnegan

Finnegan

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You'd have to know absolutely nothing about history to not believe we've contributed considerably to the unrest in the middle east, historically.

 

You'd also have to know nothing about current affairs to think that us simply now abandoning all interference would instantly make it all okay again.

 

The damage has been done and whilst I think we should scale back our involvement, equally if we walk away, hold our hands up and just go "yeah, my bad" we're really not helping.

 

We quite clearly have some social responsibility to chip in and help tidy up the mess we contributed to in the region.

 

Daesh would love it if we bottled it and left them alone, that's what they want us to do in response to their terrorist agenda. Clearly we should be saying **** you and helping contribute to their overall downfall because they're an awful, evil organisation that are slaughtering their own people and our history in the region helped give them strength.

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Foxin_mad said:

Germany is in many ways vastly loyal to German manufacturers, go there everyone have German made cars, appliances etc etc, they look after their own. That combined with the well respect products for exports makes them successful but they are a highly efficient, modernised industrial nation. Trying to sell a product to a German as a non German company is tough! I know!

 

Romania and Poland are ex soviet countries, they are growing quickly and some of our jobs have already shifted over there.

 

Again the Nordic countries work because their population is so low it made Socialist principles more manageable, cracks are starting to show now they are suffering mass immigration, now someone is going to have to pay for those extra people who will it be?

6

This is an interesting point, actually, and one I've thought about before: why does a system like the Nordic countries practice work really well in terms of quality of life results for everyone when there is a certain number of people, but if it is scaled up people think it (and sometimes does) go terribly wrong? Is there a population number where the whole idea simply collapses under the weight of its own bureaucracy? If so, what is that number and why?

 

 

4 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

You'd have to know absolutely nothing about history to not believe we've contributed considerably to the unrest in the middle east, historically.

 

You'd also have to know nothing about current affairs to think that us simply now abandoning all interference would instantly make it all okay again.

 

The damage has been done and whilst I think we should scale back our involvement, equally if we walk away, hold our hands up and just go "yeah, my bad" we're really not helping.

 

We quite clearly have some social responsibility to chip in and help tidy up the mess we contributed to in the region.

 

Daesh would love it if we bottled it and left them alone, that's what they want us to do in response to their terrorist agenda. Clearly we should be saying **** you and helping contribute to their overall downfall because they're an awful, evil organisation that are slaughtering their own people and our history in the region helped give them strength.

 

This.

 

Which is why the key is a careful, targetted response. There is a middle ground in terms of such responses here.

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Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted
53 minutes ago, Lionator said:

I can't believe how naive people are to think that British Foreign Policy isn't fractionally responsible for the radicalisation of young UK Muslims. Lee Rigby's killers literally screamed this down a camera, it's not caving in to admit that intervening in other countries without any end game plan is causing instability. The same people who want Tony Blair tried in the Hague for war crimes are now criticising Corbyn. It is also not saying that there aren't massive social issues within the UK Muslim community that leads to radicalisation, which also needs assessing. There is no one solution, but we cannot go on and just ignore what is going on in the world around us.  

 

22 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

You'd have to know absolutely nothing about history to not believe we've contributed considerably to the unrest in the middle east, historically.

 

You'd also have to know nothing about current affairs to think that us simply now abandoning all interference would instantly make it all okay again.

 

The damage has been done and whilst I think we should scale back our involvement, equally if we walk away, hold our hands up and just go "yeah, my bad" we're really not helping.

I don't think anyone seriously believes it hasn't had an impact, it clearly has. But people also need to realise that we would still be a target even without it, the aim of IS is a caliphate that eventually captures the World.

 

The idea that if we had all listened to Jeremy Corbyn and not gone into Iraq we would all be safe by now is a total fantasy, in the last 24 hours Islamists have attacked places in Nigeria, Malaysia and Indonesia - countries who have played no part in gulf wars, IS has attacked Sweden and Belgium despite them having pro-refugee policy, bending over backwards for the religion and having little aggresive foreign policy.

 

 

Anyway, let's go and enjoy the sunshine, Humanity at it's best is as good as gets from science to the arts to charity to sport to kindness, celebrate it, don't just enjoy it, celebrate it.

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Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
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One last thing, Corbyn totally out of order not taking questions after today when he had pillared May for doing the same thing. I think he knew what was coming. 

 

He won't avoid it tonight with Andrew Neil.

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davieG

davieG

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Posted
1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

This is an interesting point, actually, and one I've thought about before: why does a system like the Nordic countries practice work really well in terms of quality of life results for everyone when there is a certain number of people, but if it is scaled up people think it (and sometimes does) go terribly wrong? Is there a population number where the whole idea simply collapses under the weight of its own bureaucracy? If so, what is that number and why?

 

 

Is it because they have an abundance of natural resources per head of population I'm pretty sure this has a significant impact in Norway.

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leicsmac

leicsmac

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12 minutes ago, davieG said:

Is it because they have an abundance of natural resources per head of population I'm pretty sure this has a significant impact in Norway.

That's certainly the case in Norway (though it's also the case in other countries where such systems have either failed completely or not been tried, viz. Venezuela/Saudi Arabia/North Korea). Not sure how much of an effect it has on the other Nordic countries though - Sweden is pretty decent with the rare metals and iron deposits, but no more so than many other countries.

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