volpeazzurro Posted 20 May 2017 Posted 20 May 2017 3 hours ago, Thracian said: The truth remains that Mahrez represented almost our only hope of piercing the Spurs defence or supplying a killer pass to the service-starved Vardy. Albrighton has been MoM on several occasions recently but he was ineffective against Spurs. Our central midfield wasn't and isn't creative and was being overwhelmed in any case for much of the time. All we had going forward was the hope of Mahrez producing moments of magic among his many mediocre moments and the industry of young Chilwell trying to make something out of next-to-nothing in a game where Spurs seemed to have about twice as many players as we did. Quite how long we're going to wait for a couple of creative midfielders I don't know. Or a right wing-back. Or a properly penetrative left-winger. Or defenders who are comfortable on the ball. Or a complimentary strike partner for Vardy who's ready to play every week. Seems to me that close to half our squad needs changing yet all I've mentioned above is 5-7 players. Relating to Mahrez, I'm sick of hearing about him and don't give a toss if he leaves for the right price. Whatever the reasons we could probably do better for ourselves in the long run based on his current input. I think that's a sound observation of the debacle the other night from our perspective. That having been said, Dembele and Wanyama were quite formidable in midfield and lest we forget, we fielded what were essentially a couple of kids against two established professionals. Benny and Fuchs were a couple of stand ins at centre half really and just looking at our team before the game I feared for us. That is not meant to sound like making excuses and it's worrying that Shakespeare said that some of the players weren't following orders! When Spurs were under the cosh at the start of the second half, albeit he can be an annoying little turd, I was impressed by Dele Ali who was fighting for the ball in his own penalty area for the cause. Contrast Marhez who again has all the ability in the world but seemingly a lack of fire in his belly for us. I can honestly forgive drops in form, even lengthy ones, but not a lack of effort or trying. We're at a huge crossways I think, both in terms of the next manager and who to sell and who to keep. A huge and difficult decision time for our owners who are our main constant in all this and we're lucky to have them. Whatever they decide they can't please everyone, but I for one will back them as they are aware of the full circumstances, including the truth of what happened earlier in the year and there may still be a bit of blood letting after the Ranieri incident now we're safe! Possibly he saw some of our weaknesses and tried to change things, but rather like with Shakespeare, some of the players weren't willing to follow orders, who knows, it's mostly supposition. Just for the record, of the two Spurs fans I know, neither of them would want Marhez saying that they felt him lazy and uncommitted to his team, plus he doesn't fit in to the work ethic instilled by Poch. Both however would take Gray in an instant albeit he's largely unproven!
ithuriel Posted 20 May 2017 Posted 20 May 2017 1 minute ago, Thracian said: But "could" means nothing in relation to Shakespeare or anyone/anything else for that matter. He "could" win the FA Cup or get us back in Europe. He "could" be just as bad as Kelly. Or he "could" retire next week and leave our owners with all the hassle. I did remove the "insult" reference because it was a personal reaction - and took me back to a time when I spent time and money watching what I considered to be the worst kind of football I was ever likely to witness. No worries, I want a successful club crewed by decent peeps just as much as any other supporter. It would be nice if Shakey was to be given the position and succeed, football management though is pretty ruthless.
Thracian Posted 20 May 2017 Posted 20 May 2017 5 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said: I think that's a sound observation of the debacle the other night from our perspective. That having been said, Dembele and Wanyama were quite formidable in midfield and lest we forget, we fielded what were essentially a couple of kids against two established professionals. Benny and Fuchs were a couple of stand ins at centre half really and just looking at our team before the game I feared for us. That is not meant to sound like making excuses and it's worrying that Shakespeare said that some of the players weren't following orders! When Spurs were under the cosh at the start of the second half, albeit he can be an annoying little turd, I was impressed by Dele Ali who was fighting for the ball in his own penalty area for the cause. Contrast Marhez who again has all the ability in the world but seemingly a lack of fire in his belly for us. I can honestly forgive drops in form, even lengthy ones, but not a lack of effort or trying. We're at a huge crossways I think, both in terms of the next manager and who to sell and who to keep. A huge and difficult decision time for our owners who are our main constant in all this and we're lucky to have them. Whatever they decide they can't please everyone, but I for one will back them as they are aware of the full circumstances, including the truth of what happened earlier in the year and there may still be a bit of blood letting after the Ranieri incident now we're safe! Possibly he saw some of our weaknesses and tried to change things, but rather like with Shakespeare, some of the players weren't willing to follow orders, who knows, it's mostly supposition. Just for the record, of the two Spurs fans I know, neither of them would want Marhez saying that they felt him lazy and uncommitted to his team, plus he doesn't fit in to the work ethic instilled by Poch. Both however would take Gray in an instant albeit he's largely unproven! Interesting comments and observations those. Regarding Mahrez I'd understand anyone having concerns about signing him, and for exactly the reasons mentioned. Some might say his "laziness" might be negated by his having more and better chances within a high class team but that would have to be weighed against the reaction of hard working but outstanding team-mates and the vulnerability of a top class team playing top class opposition who could best exploit the space left by a lazy player. As for Gray they might be right and there's clearly many who think that way. I annoy myself sometimes by thinking he'll never really make the best of his ability and there are a few games when he seriously tests that view...just not enough. I see him more as a show pony than a team player and much more about himself than his colleagues. As ever with such things, I hope I'm wrong and the outcome might well depend on who he works with. .
Thracian Posted 20 May 2017 Posted 20 May 2017 12 minutes ago, ithuriel said: No worries, I want a successful club crewed by decent peeps just as much as any other supporter. It would be nice if Shakey was to be given the position and succeed, football management though is pretty ruthless. Well, we'll know soon enough what the owners choose for us and I'll wish success to anyone who gets the job. It's only a personal view that Shaky would be the best choice at this time but he'll need to learn fast, he'll need to do uncomfortable things even concerning people he might think a lot of and he'll need to have a vision of what he wants and how he's going to get it. He's entitled to the same slack as anyone else in a new job but will still be judged with the same intensity as any other manager and praised or criticised as appropriate. Ruthlessness I entirely understand, but I like fairness too. For me Shaky's done his job for this season and we've been lucky our injury crisis didn't hit us when he took over because we really haven't got the strength in depth to cope with any confidence. Hopefully, one of his first tasks will be to change that.
HighPeakFox Posted 20 May 2017 Posted 20 May 2017 On 5/19/2017 at 09:31, Moksky said: We got spanked 6-1 and it was utterly embarrasing. Its on OTT reaction, it was fxxking rubbish . If certain supporters can accept that then its up to them, I am not standing for it. Open letter, then?
HighPeakFox Posted 20 May 2017 Posted 20 May 2017 2 minutes ago, Moksky said: Appreciate your passion, but sometimes the darkest moment is before dawn etc blah yadda yadda. It's not 'embarrassing', it all just went a bit bad (and yes I did attend and sit through it).
Wymsey Posted 20 May 2017 Posted 20 May 2017 Almost certain to get it. The club knows that he understands the club inside-out and how it operates. The club also has learnt that getting a new manager in who doesn't respect how the club is managed on the football management side and wants things done 'his way' can often backfire.
Thracian Posted 20 May 2017 Posted 20 May 2017 On 2017-5-19 at 09:31, Moksky said: We got spanked 6-1 and it was utterly embarrasing. Its on OTT reaction, it was fxxking rubbish . If certain supporters can accept that then its up to them, I am not standing for it. Presumably you're not intent on being a long term supporter. Our 6-1 defeat - with half our defence and midfield missing - was no less painful than losing 7-1 to Kevin Keegan's Newcastle when most fans were glad we didn't get hit for double figures as many expected. But, just like Spurs, that Newcastle team was something special and neither the Spurs nor Newcastle setbacks compared with the shame and embarrassment of losing to the likes of Wycombe Wanderers and Burton Albion in still remembered cup games. Decades back, I made my first team debut for Loughborough United as a 16-year-old, totally unaware that my predecessors wrote their own chapter in the book of footballing embarrassments when they beat the then Woolwich Arsenal 8-0 in the old Football League Second Division of 1896. Countless top teams have suffered similar embarrassments in the ensuing years, adding their own fascinating footnotes to football's rich history. Either we do put up with it and tuck the memory away into our mental store of "Painful" Leicester City anecdotes or we walk away from the game and lose a lot more..... http://www.footballsite.co.uk/Statistics/Articles/ArsenalRecordDefeat.htm Perhaps extraordinarily, on reading the above report for the first time today I notice that one of the Loughborough players who did the most damage against Arsenal was a guy called Roulstone who appeared to be listed as a right winger. The name isn't so common and one of the players I partnered in the Loughborough team was also a winger named Rod Roulstone who I remember as being a Lloyd Dyer type, not necessarily the best in terms of ball control, but the fastest fellow I ever tried to keep up with. I just wonder if there's anyone from Loughborough on here who'd know if the two were related. Many in the Loughborough side were drawn from the Loughborough Brush engineering works when I was there (in the mid/late 60s). Roulstone may or may not have worked there but it wouldn't be that unusual for two members of the same family to have played for them.
W88DY Posted 20 May 2017 Posted 20 May 2017 Is Steve Walsh coming back to the club??? The talk around the training ground yesterday was that the owners are willing to give Shakespeare the job providing he can persuade Steve Walsh to leave his post at Everton to become assistant manager at City. I have no reason to disbelieve this story but i am wondering what if Walsh doesn't want to come back?
kyleolly Posted 20 May 2017 Posted 20 May 2017 7 minutes ago, W88DY said: Is Steve Walsh coming back to the club??? The talk around the training ground yesterday was that the owners are willing to give Shakespeare the job providing he can persuade Steve Walsh to leave his post at Everton to become assistant manager at City. I have no reason to disbelieve this story but i am wondering what if Walsh doesn't want to come back? Get Mancini in!
Wymsey Posted 20 May 2017 Posted 20 May 2017 6 minutes ago, W88DY said: Is Steve Walsh coming back to the club??? The talk around the training ground yesterday was that the owners are willing to give Shakespeare the job providing he can persuade Steve Walsh to leave his post at Everton to become assistant manager at City. I have no reason to disbelieve this story but i am wondering what if Walsh doesn't want to come back? It's rather unlikely he'll come back. He's in his 60's and he mentioned one of the reasons he went to Everton was to be more closer to his family.
Moksky Posted 20 May 2017 Posted 20 May 2017 27 minutes ago, Thracian said: Presumably you're not intent on being a long term supporter. Our 6-1 defeat - with half our defence and midfield missing - was no less painful than losing 7-1 to Kevin Keegan's Newcastle when most fans were glad we didn't get hit for double figures as many expected. But, just like Spurs, that Newcastle team was something special and neither the Spurs nor Newcastle setbacks compared with the shame and embarrassment of losing to the likes of Wycombe Wanderers and Burton Albion in still remembered cup games. Decades back, I made my first team debut for Loughborough United as a 16-year-old, totally unaware that my predecessors wrote their own chapter in the book of footballing embarrassments when they beat the then Woolwich Arsenal 8-0 in the old Football League Second Division of 1896. Countless top teams have suffered similar embarrassments in the ensuing years, adding their own fascinating footnotes to football's rich history. Either we do put up with it and tuck the memory away into our mental store of "Painful" Leicester City anecdotes or we walk away from the game and lose a lot more..... http://www.footballsite.co.uk/Statistics/Articles/ArsenalRecordDefeat.htm Perhaps extraordinarily, on reading the above report for the first time today I notice that one of the Loughborough players who did the most damage against Arsenal was a guy called Roulstone who appeared to be listed as a right winger. The name isn't so common and one of the players I partnered in the Loughborough team was also a winger named Rod Roulstone who I remember as being a Lloyd Dyer type, not necessarily the best in terms of ball control, but the fastest fellow I ever tried to keep up with. I just wonder if there's anyone from Loughborough on here who'd know if the two were related. Many in the Loughborough side were drawn from the Loughborough Brush engineering works when I was there (in the mid/late 60s). Roulstone may or may not have worked there but it wouldn't be that unusual for two members of the same family to have played for them. I was at Newcastle when we lost 7-1 that Sunday. Please don't question my longevity. In fact I was zoomed in by Central TV when we celebrated our consolation goal that day, after me and my pal had sold loads of tickets to Geordies in our end behind the goal, and they got promptly got threw out after scoring their first. Those circumstances are completely different. We won the league last year, Tottenham may be pretty on the eye, but they are not the best side in the league, Chelsea are. Of course everyone has to put it behind them, supporters , the players and staff, but it does not make it acceptable and does not make it nothing other than embarrassing, the manner of defeat was piss poor, we made schoolboy errors and rolled over. Everyone recognises the fact that in the previous season when we performed the great escape, that form, shape and style contributed to the start we made the following season and our success. We raised our own barrier last year, and the mentaility and professionlism of the the management and players should be higher. Results and performances of some on Thursday does not send our the right message to other teams. Lets not make excuses of losing 3 players, Tottenham also had 3 not starting. There wil be standards that the likes of Schmeichel who wont hang around for long in dressing rooms where mentality and attitude is weak. We should be building the KP as our fortress Is it not acceptable for a side who are striving to get back into European football next term, also wanting to compete the right end of the table to get hammered like we did. whether there is nothing riding on the game or not, not in my book its not. Thats the difference, I do not accept defeat easily, partucularly smashed at home 6-1. Take some pride in what you do and look at he bigger picture and long term. Success breeds confidence, being beat at home 6-1 doesnt. Some may say it exposes the fact we dont have enough strength in depth. I hope that is recitifed this summer, but the better players wont hang around and some of those are ageing.
Bluetintedspecs Posted 20 May 2017 Posted 20 May 2017 Avoided FT after Thursday night, knowing there would be some ridiculous kneejerk reactions............And boy have some of you excelled yourselves!
Moksky Posted 20 May 2017 Posted 20 May 2017 3 hours ago, HighPeakFox said: Appreciate your passion, but sometimes the darkest moment is before dawn etc blah yadda yadda. It's not 'embarrassing', it all just went a bit bad (and yes I did attend and sit through it). It is embarrassing, it is by my standard. Being hammered 6-1 at home by the Spuds is very embarrassing, I was also there.
HighPeakFox Posted 20 May 2017 Posted 20 May 2017 4 minutes ago, Moksky said: It is embarrassing, it is by my standard. Being hammered 6-1 at home by the Spuds is very embarrassing, I was also there. If you largely are defined by who you support, I guess so. I'm personally not embarrassed by our team or by supporting them, and I just think the word is over-used and is rendered meaningless. Sanchez feigning injury to his face, now he should be embarrassed by that, but a defeat with a weakened team when they've done the hard work in staying up, not for me.
filbertway Posted 20 May 2017 Posted 20 May 2017 23 hours ago, Sionnach gorm said: I'm a Shakey scheptic, no doubt. Other than the bump he received for being a new manager, and the initial improvement in confidence the team showed, I just don't see Shakey as being a tactical improvement on Ranieri. I think Ranieri is a better manager and more experienced. I still believe that the Atletico games might have gone the other way had Ranieri remained just a little longer. The owners pulled the trigger a little too soon. In these last two games the chickens have come home to roost. Shakey should remain as coach, but we need a better skipper to lead this team. That's my opinion. Absolutely, they would have been playing a completely different team.
volpeazzurro Posted 20 May 2017 Posted 20 May 2017 3 hours ago, Wymeswold fox said: Almost certain to get it. The club knows that he understands the club inside-out and how it operates. The club also has learnt that getting a new manager in who doesn't respect how the club is managed on the football management side and wants things done 'his way' can often backfire. Except for when they win the Premiership in their first season?
NotTheMarketLeader Posted 20 May 2017 Posted 20 May 2017 I have asked myself these questions. 1. Do I think Shakespeare can get this present SQUAD to challenge for europa level given that this season is probably an average season that could affict us in terms of injuries? 2. Given our finishing position do I think the club will be able to recruit players to move us on to that level and build a team to progress as a project with Shakespeare as manager? 3. If players are already not doing as they are asked in games, as Shakey has admitted, is that a concern? My answers: 1. No. 2. Maybe, but someone else (I have no particular idea who at this stage) as manager may be a bigger draw for prospective players and this will assist in recruiting players that will make a difference. 3. Yes, given our game is all about the team and work ethic. I therefore have come to the conclusion that a fresh start is the way forward.
Moksky Posted 20 May 2017 Posted 20 May 2017 2 hours ago, HighPeakFox said: If you largely are defined by who you support, I guess so. I'm personally not embarrassed by our team or by supporting them, and I just think the word is over-used and is rendered meaningless. Sanchez feigning injury to his face, now he should be embarrassed by that, but a defeat with a weakened team when they've done the hard work in staying up, not for me. I am not embarrassed by supporting our team, I am embarrassed by getting hammered 6-1 at home, when the scoreline could have been a lot more respectable with the players available. We are perhaps different in that respect. The way I see it is not good for our club or team. Portrays a soft mentality
Guest Col city fan Posted 20 May 2017 Posted 20 May 2017 6 hours ago, HighPeakFox said: Appreciate your passion, but sometimes the darkest moment is before dawn etc blah yadda yadda. It's not 'embarrassing', it all just went a bit bad (and yes I did attend and sit through it). I found it embarrassing. Seeing and hearing the Spuds fans going mental in their corner, at our place, whilst we were peppered with shots for the last 20 or so minutes was embarrassing imo.
HighPeakFox Posted 20 May 2017 Posted 20 May 2017 Is it you that's embarrassed, or the team that should be embarrassed?
ithuriel Posted 20 May 2017 Posted 20 May 2017 I found it a little hard to listen to their jubilation, you'd think they had finally won the League in my lifetime but at the end of the day, it was a thrashing handed out in a nothing game with a threadbare defence and midfield. The main thing that struck me about the game was the muted atmosphere and passion as for the first time in a few seasons the game had nothing riding on it, no promotion, fighting for survival, winning a cup etc.,
Thracian Posted 20 May 2017 Posted 20 May 2017 8 hours ago, Moksky said: I was at Newcastle when we lost 7-1 that Sunday. Please don't question my longevity. In fact I was zoomed in by Central TV when we celebrated our consolation goal that day, after me and my pal had sold loads of tickets to Geordies in our end behind the goal, and they got promptly got threw out after scoring their first. Those circumstances are completely different. We won the league last year, Tottenham may be pretty on the eye, but they are not the best side in the league, Chelsea are. Of course everyone has to put it behind them, supporters , the players and staff, but it does not make it acceptable and does not make it nothing other than embarrassing, the manner of defeat was piss poor, we made schoolboy errors and rolled over. Everyone recognises the fact that in the previous season when we performed the great escape, that form, shape and style contributed to the start we made the following season and our success. We raised our own barrier last year, and the mentaility and professionlism of the the management and players should be higher. Results and performances of some on Thursday does not send our the right message to other teams. Lets not make excuses of losing 3 players, Tottenham also had 3 not starting. There wil be standards that the likes of Schmeichel who wont hang around for long in dressing rooms where mentality and attitude is weak. We should be building the KP as our fortress Is it not acceptable for a side who are striving to get back into European football next term, also wanting to compete the right end of the table to get hammered like we did. whether there is nothing riding on the game or not, not in my book its not. Thats the difference, I do not accept defeat easily, partucularly smashed at home 6-1. Take some pride in what you do and look at he bigger picture and long term. Success breeds confidence, being beat at home 6-1 doesnt. Some may say it exposes the fact we dont have enough strength in depth. I hope that is recitifed this summer, but the better players wont hang around and some of those are ageing. Haha I don't know about Leicester's problems but it's clear that I was altogether too kind, reasonable and understanding as a coach and manager. A bit soft really. You make me wish I'd had a mentor to put me straight on the issue. That said I don't remember claiming Spurs were the best team in the League and the fact that Spurs had three players out ignores another fact that they have far better depth in their squad than we do and better replacements. The team they fielded was far superior to ours on the night because we had no worthwhile replacements for several key men as was apparent to me and many others from way back to our last close season at least. I've given it consideration and can't see that was Shakespeare's fault in any way. Yes, I believe our owners gave him some incentive to save our season but there was no changing the squad. He had to work with what he had and as far as I'm aware he's not actually a member of the Magic Circle. As a coach I did come up with one or two ways we might at least have salvaged a point against Spurs but then you did make a point about taking pride in what we do - and I have to admit my ways were unjustly illegal and would have resulted in the football authorities' equivalent of corporal punishment (which I'd already fallen foul of in my own career, easy going as I was). I'm not sure we raised our barrier last year. Yes, we won the Premiership title but then seemed blinded by the light of it because we couldn't seem to see beyond the end of our own pre-season publicity. First our normally solidly sensible pre-season was entirely forgotten and replaced by a promotional circus that focused more on whether Mahrez was joining Arsenal as much as any football. Secondly we announced several new signings who had no proper opportunity to integrate into our team at all. It was like a pre-season own goal or two own goals when we discovered the contribution the combined force of those players would make to our abyssmal attempt to wear the crown of Premiership champions. Soft as you think me, I actually made a veiled hint that Ranieri should be sacked last September when someone asked what player I'd most like us to sign and I said, forget about a player, I'd like Klopp. I suppose I was thinking - as you mentioned - about being at the right end of the table but, not being you, I didn't want to shout too loudly about the fact we were getting beaten and I didn't feel too good about it. I knew about being beaten as a football manager. There was an earlier draw but the first defeat came in my third season - and about 80-odd matches into my career. Very quickly I decided team sports weren't for me - too many things I couldn't control - and headed for the squash court instead, enjoying countless storybook adventures and eventually getting proprietorship of my own club. We won numerous titles and honours and probably lost fewer than 30 games in eight seasons which was not too bad seeing that related to all the 30-odd teams we ran at what was only a village club when all said and done. The defeats still rankled as inexplicable but they served to offer a lesson in humility. . In the end a court decided i shouldn't have sacked a thief on the spot so I closed the club because someone else impressed their authority on my fortress. The legals were right of course. But what I should have done would have cost all the pride I had and left me villified on the front pages of every newspaper in the land. So the club - among the top 25 in Britain by then - was demolished. Pride again I guess. Refusing to accept what was unacceptable to me. Much the same as you really - and equally wrong in retrospect. Cos when we refuse to accept reality we only hurt ourselves. I don't think that way anymore. I know (as someone else said on the subject) that shit happens sometimes. And when the Spurs game ended I clapped my team off and headed off home to await the Bournemouth game. Some of those players won a Premiership title and flew our flag higher than ever before in the Champions League. I'll owe em for a lifetime.
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