Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

[Webbo]

5 hours ago, Charl91 said:

 

So I'm just imagining the shitty exchange rate for the Euros that I bought for my holiday then? Or the prices going up in the shops? So far, Brexit has had negative effects and no positive ones (and it hasn't even happened yet), so it's a little early to be giving it the whole "I told you so".

That exchange rate is boosting exports, prices are going up at a massive 2.6% per year(inflation also went up in Germany and America)and will start going down again in a few months.

 

I'm not saying I told you so, nobody knows what'll happen yet. I just get a bit fed up of all condescending " bless em, the thick twats, they don't realise they've made a massive mistake yet" when all the evidence is on our side. A little bit of humility from the remainers would go a long way.

[Buce]

25 minutes ago, MattP said:

You should still read The Times, well worth the subscription, as is stuff like Private Eye.

 

No surprise to me the paywall publications are now going up in circulation, informed and educated people will pay for quality journalism. 

 

Only downside is the free stuff that often peddles fake news like the Canary, Breitbart etc becomes mainstream on social media.

 

Hardly surprising, the suffragettes didn't die for Mick from Wigan to all of a sudden decide he's a real lady. I'm going to claim myself soon, I'm faster than any women bowler I've seen (I clocked 81mph once), I could go from a moron on an internet forum to a World Cup winner soon.

 

I'm sure you'll fit right in here, Matt:

 

http://planettransgender.com/transgender-sanam-cricket-team-win-first-game/

 

[Sharpe's Fox]

The Guardian. Came for Football Weekly, stayed for Polly Toynbee.

[foxinexile]

35 minutes ago, Webbo said:

That exchange rate is boosting exports, prices are going up at a massive 2.6% per year(inflation also went up in Germany and America)and will start going down again in a few months.

 

I'm not saying I told you so, nobody knows what'll happen yet. I just get a bit fed up of all condescending " bless em, the thick twats, they don't realise they've made a massive mistake yet" when all the evidence is on our side. A little bit of humility from the remainers would go a long way.

What evidence is on "your" side? I'm interested to know what you think has been better about the decision to leave the EU? I refrain from asking what has been better about Brexit, because we have only seen the mechanism to instigate Brexit used (Article 50) so far, not Brexit itself. What has happened post 23rd June 2016 that is better than pre 23rd June 2016? I'm genuinely interested to know how it appears from a Leave perspective.

[Kopfkino]

Things might turn a little sour in Dalston tonight and tomorrow after the IPCC has said that Rashan Charles swallowed a package of caffeine and paracetamol. One suspects that he probably thought he was buying coke, didn't realise he was duped and swallowed it in a panic. Yet another reason to decriminalise drugs.

I hate these kind of things because the virtuous claim persecution against black people and that we just assume all black people are involved in drugs. But his actions point to the fact he wasn't obeying the law and the outcome is unfortunate. Idk why the office sought to apprehend him in the first place and maybe a white person wouldn't have been chased. I'm sure there is still much to be done on institutional racism in the police force, but the case hardly shows a witch hunt against the black community and it's completely unacceptable to set fire the mattresses and bins as a result. 

[Webbo]

24 minutes ago, foxinexile said:

What evidence is on "your" side? I'm interested to know what you think has been better about the decision to leave the EU? I refrain from asking what has been better about Brexit, because we have only seen the mechanism to instigate Brexit used (Article 50) so far, not Brexit itself. What has happened post 23rd June 2016 that is better than pre 23rd June 2016? I'm genuinely interested to know how it appears from a Leave perspective.

No DIY recession, unemployment down to it's lowest since the early 70s, Scottish independance off the agenda, manufacturing and exports up.

[Buce]

7 minutes ago, Webbo said:

No DIY recession, unemployment down to it's lowest since the early 70s, Scottish independance off the agenda, manufacturing and exports up.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36956418

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/ng-interactive/2017/may/25/how-has-the-brexit-vote-affected-the-uk-economy-may-verdict

[Guest]

 

11 minutes ago, Webbo said:

No DIY recession, unemployment down to it's lowest since the early 70s, Scottish independance off the agenda, manufacturing and exports up.

Which of these things do you imagine were because of the vote for Brexit?

Scottish independence could be claimed but the reality is that Scot just see the issue as settled by their last referendum. Exports maybe due to the weaker pound but you have to remember that the pound is weaker because financial experts have sold in the belief that the British economy will be worse off - that is the direct cause of the weaker pound. 

On the other hand I having nursing applications fro the EU down by 96%. I'm not convinced that you're in any position to be claiming any sort of moral victory. 

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, toddybad said:

 

Which of these things do you imagine were because of the vote for Brexit?

Scottish independence could be claimed but the reality is that Scot just see the issue as settled by their last referendum. Exports maybe due to the weaker pound but you have to remember that the pound is weaker because financial experts have sold in the belief that the British economy will be worse off - that is the direct cause of the weaker pound. 

On the other hand I having nursing applications fro the EU down by 96%. I'm not convinced that you're in any position to be claiming any sort of moral victory. 

I'm not claiming victory but I'd say we're 1-0 up at halftime.

[ajthefox]

1 hour ago, Webbo said:

That exchange rate is boosting exports, prices are going up at a massive 2.6% per year(inflation also went up in Germany and America)and will start going down again in a few months.

 

I'm not saying I told you so, nobody knows what'll happen yet. I just get a bit fed up of all condescending " bless em, the thick twats, they don't realise they've made a massive mistake yet" when all the evidence is on our side. A little bit of humility from the remainers would go a long way.

 

It's been far from the armageddon many claimed it would be thus far and I understand what you mean about humility, but surely you aren't suggesting it's all been positive Webbo?

 

That's just disingenuous.

 

 

 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Webbo said:

I'm not claiming victory but I'd say we're 1-0 up at halftime.

Brexit hasn't even happened. It won't be half time for about 5 years!

[foxinexile]

20 minutes ago, Webbo said:

No DIY recession, unemployment down to it's lowest since the early 70s, Scottish independance off the agenda, manufacturing and exports up.

I think it's stretching it somewhat to claim that the fall in unemployment is due to the decision to leave the EU. Unemployment has been on a downward trend for the last 5+ years. The referendum was in 2016. The two don't really tally.

[Webbo]

8 minutes ago, foxinexile said:

I think it's stretching it somewhat to claim that the fall in unemployment is due to the decision to leave the EU. Unemployment has been on a downward trend for the last 5+ years. The referendum was in 2016. The two don't really tally.

But the remainers told us it would go up?

[Webbo]

12 minutes ago, ajthefox said:

 

It's been far from the armageddon many claimed it would be thus far and I understand what you mean about humility, but surely you aren't suggesting it's all been positive Webbo?

 

That's just disingenuous.

 

 

 

I'd say it's been better than expected, even by leavers.

[foxinexile]

10 minutes ago, Webbo said:

But the remainers told us it would go up?

But I wasn't asking what hasn't happened in relation to what Remainers might/might not have said. I was asking what benefits you believe there have been since the vote to leave the EU in June 2016. I struggle to see how the fall in unemployment is directly linked to the vote to leave the EU, since unemployment has been on a downward trend for the last 5+ years.

[Webbo]

Just now, foxinexile said:

But I wasn't asking what hasn't happened in relation to what Remainers might/might not have said. I was asking what benefits you believe there have been since the vote to leave the EU in June 2016. I struggle to see how the fall in unemployment is directly linked to the vote to leave the EU, since unemployment has been on a downward trend for the last 5+ years.

You said;

Quote

What has happened post 23rd June 2016 that is better than pre 23rd June 2016? I'm genuinely interested to know how it appears from a Leave perspective.

The unemployment rate is better.

[Guest]

47 minutes ago, Webbo said:

You said;

The unemployment rate is better.

you're being disingenuous and you know it. you're not running for office webbo, you can give a straight answer and still keep your job!

[Webbo]

21 minutes ago, toddybad said:

you're being disingenuous and you know it. you're not running for office webbo, you can give a straight answer and still keep your job!

Tell me what's worse, apart from the exchange rate which is a positive for some.

[foxinexile]

1 hour ago, Webbo said:

You said;

The unemployment rate is better.

In August 2016 I had laser eye surgery, so I could say that overall my vision has been better post 23rd June 2016 than prior to it. Due to the referendum result? Obviously not. But by your reasoning, I could claim that. I think you fail, or choose not to, see the wider point I'm making as to why the fall in unemployment isn't directly linked to the referendum result, however this kind of obtuse rejection of anything against Brexit is something I have experienced on a regular basis by many (but not all) people who voted Leave, so it isn't that unexpected. However, if you believe the two are linked, that is your right and I did ask what you thought was better, so I'll respect that.

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, foxinexile said:

In August 2016 I had laser eye surgery, so I could say that overall my vision has been better post 23rd June 2016 than prior to it. Due to the referendum result? Obviously not. But by your reasoning, I could claim that. I think you fail, or choose not to, see the wider point I'm making as to why the fall in unemployment isn't directly linked to the referendum result, however this kind of obtuse rejection of anything against Brexit is something I have experienced on a regular basis by many (but not all) people who voted Leave, so it isn't that unexpected. However, if you believe the two are linked, that is your right and I did ask what you thought was better, so I'll respect that.

We haven't left yet.

[Buce]

8 minutes ago, Webbo said:

We haven't left yet.

 

Naughty.

 

[foxinexile]

7 minutes ago, Webbo said:

We haven't left yet.

As I said in my original question to you:

I refrain from asking what has been better about Brexit, because we have only seen the mechanism to instigate Brexit used (Article 50) so far, not Brexit itself.

 

So yes, I'm very aware we haven't left yet. I'm not entirely sure what your point with that is? Sorry if I'm missing something obvious.

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Tell me what's worse, apart from the exchange rate which is a positive for some.

I haven't got foxinexile's patience.

You're being a ****. 

We. Have. Not. ****ing. Left. Yet. 

And yet already there are warning signs. And, I'll admit, a few positive signs. We have yet to find out what the outcome will be. I'm not claiming to be proven right yet and you most certainly aren't able to either. 

[Webbo]

13 minutes ago, toddybad said:

I haven't got foxinexile's patience.

You're being a ****. 

We. Have. Not. ****ing. Left. Yet. 

And yet already there are warning signs. And, I'll admit, a few positive signs. We have yet to find out what the outcome will be. I'm not claiming to be proven right yet and you most certainly aren't able to either. 

 

 

Quote

Spend too much of my time watching O'Brien on Youtube. He rinses Brexiteer after Brexiteer. The thing is, he shows again and again that the decision is foolish and illogical and is based on how people feel rather than reality but then Brexiteers on this threads have really shown that they almost admit it was based on feeling and are happy with that. I find the whole thing bizarre. 

The decision is foolish and illogical but you're not claiming that you're right?

[Kopfkino]

4 minutes ago, toddybad said:

I haven't got foxinexile's patience.

You're being a ****. 

We. Have. Not. ****ing. Left. Yet. 

And yet already there are warning signs. And, I'll admit, a few positive signs. We have yet to find out what the outcome will be. I'm not claiming to be proven right yet and you most certainly aren't able to either. 

 

But Webbo didn't vote for what might happen just after the vote, he voted for what will happen when we leave. You say we haven't left yet anticipating it will go tits up, Webbo says we haven't left yet because the result of his decision to vote to leave can only be when what he voted for has been actioned. I don't see how its acceptable to ask Webbo what is now better, if he can't retort by asking what's worse. The point is, we were told by the Bank of England that after a vote to leave, everything was going to go horribly wrong and they themselves have admitted to a 'Michael Fish moment'. In reality, inflation has gone up a bit, consumers are spending a little less, manufacturers are doing better and that's about it. Whether the catastrophe will happen when we actually leave; well there's no reason it should do but then Hammond and May are giving it a good go.