leicsmac Posted 4 August 2017 Posted 4 August 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, toddybad said: Following on from the article i posted yesterday the government's advisor has had his say on car useage Electric cars are not the answer to air pollution, says top UK adviser https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/aug/04/fewer-cars-not-electric-cars-beat-air-pollution-says-top-uk-adviser-prof-frank-kelly?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard Edited 4 August 2017 by leicsmac
Guest Posted 4 August 2017 Posted 4 August 2017 Britain couldn’t leave the single market if it tried https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/04/britain-leave-single-market-trade-deal?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
Guest MattP Posted 4 August 2017 Posted 4 August 2017 45 minutes ago, toddybad said: Britain couldn’t leave the single market if it tried https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/04/britain-leave-single-market-trade-deal?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard Had to put up with pretty much the same article from him in the Mail on Sunday a couple of weeks ago. Everytime one of these old Tory or Labour dinosaurs like Heseltine or Adonis comes out to tell us how wrong we are I'm more convinced we are right.
Guest Posted 4 August 2017 Posted 4 August 2017 19 minutes ago, MattP said: Had to put up with pretty much the same article from him in the Mail on Sunday a couple of weeks ago. Everytime one of these old Tory or Labour dinosaurs like Heseltine or Adonis comes out to tell us how wrong we are I'm more convinced we are right. It is a very good point though that the uk doesn't have any record of negotiation in the last 40 years and is about to risk trade deals with over 100 countries.
Dr The Singh Posted 4 August 2017 Posted 4 August 2017 42 minutes ago, toddybad said: It is a very good point though that the uk doesn't have any record of negotiation in the last 40 years and is about to risk trade deals with over 100 countries. UK has been brilliant in negotiating, it has caused wars, watched and aided genocides, used underhand tactics to sell weapons etc for many many years and hence had been a world power and a affluent country
Captain... Posted 4 August 2017 Posted 4 August 2017 44 minutes ago, toddybad said: It is a very good point though that the uk doesn't have any record of negotiation in the last 40 years and is about to risk trade deals with over 100 countries. It's already been said countless times, it is madness to leave the single market and we are woefully underprepared to stand on our own on a global scale. We have allowed ourselves to be marginalised in the EU over decades and we have become dependent on the EU and their expertise. Leaving would be difficult enough for a competent unified government with a clear vision on what they want to achieve. At least if there was an end game on the table it is something that we could get behind, but the only clear message from our team is no deal is better than a bad deal!
Sharpe's Fox Posted 4 August 2017 Posted 4 August 2017 Tony Benn's AES deal is better than a bad deal vote Labour.
Guest Posted 5 August 2017 Posted 5 August 2017 Something else webbo didn't notice post-brexit vote. Farmers are struggling to get the short term pickers to clear their fields already. They say after Brexit there’ll be food rotting in the fields. It’s already started https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/05/brexit-uk-food-industry-eu-fruit-veg-pickers?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
davieG Posted 5 August 2017 Posted 5 August 2017 3 minutes ago, toddybad said: Something else webbo didn't notice post-brexit vote. Farmers are struggling to get the short term pickers to clear their fields already. They say after Brexit there’ll be food rotting in the fields. It’s already started https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/05/brexit-uk-food-industry-eu-fruit-veg-pickers?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard Not if you have controlled immigration, I've not heard anyone say no one will be allowed in under any circumstances. Foreign labour doesn't seem to be the answer either then, maybe the Farmers need to be a bit more imaginative, flexible and innovative and come up with something that works with or without foreign labour. 1
Webbo Posted 5 August 2017 Posted 5 August 2017 10 minutes ago, toddybad said: Something else webbo didn't notice post-brexit vote. Farmers are struggling to get the short term pickers to clear their fields already. They say after Brexit there’ll be food rotting in the fields. It’s already started https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/05/brexit-uk-food-industry-eu-fruit-veg-pickers?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard We haven't left yet.
Innovindil Posted 5 August 2017 Posted 5 August 2017 This just in, businesses that have been thriving on the back of cheap foreign labour are now struggling. My heart bleeds for them, truly.
Guest Posted 5 August 2017 Posted 5 August 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Webbo said: We haven't left yet. No, quite. Yet we have already seen a change which is directly related to last year's vote. You don't appear to understand when the "we haven't left yet" argument can be used. Let me explain: If you have evidence of a change that is directly related to last year's vote (like this one) then it is not applicable. If there is a change but no evidence of a link to last year's vote then it is applicable. If there has been no change then this fact may itself change once Brexit occurs and so it is likely to be too early at this point for anybody to successfully claim any sort of moral victory. Hopefully the above may provide you with better framework for defending Brexit without looking like a UKIP fundamentalist. Edited 5 August 2017 by Guest
Izzy Posted 5 August 2017 Posted 5 August 2017 1 minute ago, toddybad said: No, quite. Yet we have already seen a change which is directly related to last year's vote. You don't appear to understand when the "we haven't left yet" argument can be used. Let me explain: If you have evidence of a change that is directly related to last year's vote (like this one) then it is applicable. If there is a change but no evidence of a link to last year's vote then you can't. If there has been no change then this fact may itself change once Brexit occurs and so it is likely to be too early at this point for anybody to successfully claim any sort of moral victory. Hopefully the above may provide you with better framework for defending Brexit without looking like a UKIP fundamentalist. How very patronising of you
Guest Posted 5 August 2017 Posted 5 August 2017 8 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said: How very patronising of you Well he was being pretty bloody stubborn the other evening. Don't mind him defending it but just use real evidence or keep quiet until you have some. More worrying brexit news although it should be noted that it is the current uncertainty around brexit being blamed rather than brexit itself (which, I'm reliably informed, hasn't happened yet). UK car industry facing an 'utterly demoralising' Brexit https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/aug/04/uk-car-industry-facing-an-utterly-demoralising-brexit?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
Guest MattP Posted 5 August 2017 Posted 5 August 2017 If it's a Brexit scare story in The Guardian it's definitely true.
Guest Posted 5 August 2017 Posted 5 August 2017 18 minutes ago, MattP said: If it's a Brexit scare story in The Guardian it's definitely true. Just putting up articles as they come in. Feel free to stick up any articles showing improvements that are directly related to last year's vote or the current uncertainty.
Innovindil Posted 5 August 2017 Posted 5 August 2017 5 minutes ago, toddybad said: Just putting up articles as they come in. Feel free to stick up any articles showing improvements that are directly related to last year's vote or the current uncertainty. Why not just post www.theguardian.com and save us all the time? 1
Strokes Posted 5 August 2017 Posted 5 August 2017 1 hour ago, toddybad said: Something else webbo didn't notice post-brexit vote. Farmers are struggling to get the short term pickers to clear their fields already. They say after Brexit there’ll be food rotting in the fields. It’s already started https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/05/brexit-uk-food-industry-eu-fruit-veg-pickers?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard We could perhaps ask the students to do this and pay towards their tuition fees. There was always going to be consequences of leaving a Political Union, some will be short term, some much longer. The Union is not designed to help countries quit, so short term gains are sparse, so the small victories for leave are always going to be 'see it's not that bad' rather than look see it's brilliant. Economically, I don't anticipate us to be better off for over a decade, if ever, that's not to say we can't be Socially better off much sooner ( unfortunately to people's opinions on this are so different, it can never be agreed upon). The farmers will have to adapt to market conditions, just like everybody else and if they can't survive making crops I'm sure they can find a profitable way to use such vast land. If they can't then perhaps they shouldn't be in business. 1
davieG Posted 5 August 2017 Posted 5 August 2017 1 hour ago, toddybad said: No, quite. Yet we have already seen a change which is directly related to last year's vote. You don't appear to understand when the "we haven't left yet" argument can be used. Let me explain: If you have evidence of a change that is directly related to last year's vote (like this one) then it is not applicable. If there is a change but no evidence of a link to last year's vote then it is applicable. If there has been no change then this fact may itself change once Brexit occurs and so it is likely to be too early at this point for anybody to successfully claim any sort of moral victory. Hopefully the above may provide you with better framework for defending Brexit without looking like a UKIP fundamentalist. A lot of the changes are just people like you panicking, take the farmers there's nothing to stop them getting immigrant workers in to do the summer jobs, if there is a shortage it's nothing to do with Brexit unless the people that are not coming in are those that were planning to use it as a means of staying after the work was finished. Why else would temporary farm workers not come at this time? 1
Carl the Llama Posted 5 August 2017 Posted 5 August 2017 10 hours ago, toddybad said: Haha I actually know 2 dudes who talk exactly like the bit at 2:40 right down to the mannerisms, spooky.
Captain... Posted 5 August 2017 Posted 5 August 2017 2 hours ago, Strokes said: We could perhaps ask the students to do this and pay towards their tuition fees. Why would a student do back breaking work for a pittance to help pay off a loan (fees and maintenance) that is so astronomical they know they will never fully pay it off, especially when the maintenance part of the loan will keep them in cheap beer and rollies over the summer with enough left over for a cheap holiday.
davieG Posted 5 August 2017 Posted 5 August 2017 2 minutes ago, Captain... said: Why would a student do back breaking work for a pittance to help pay off a loan (fees and maintenance) that is so astronomical they know they will never fully pay it off, especially when the maintenance part of the loan will keep them in cheap beer and rollies over the summer with enough left over for a cheap holiday. Don't ask them tell them, want a loan get picking some marrows
Captain... Posted 5 August 2017 Posted 5 August 2017 2 hours ago, davieG said: A lot of the changes are just people like you panicking, take the farmers there's nothing to stop them getting immigrant workers in to do the summer jobs, if there is a shortage it's nothing to do with Brexit unless the people that are not coming in are those that were planning to use it as a means of staying after the work was finished. Why else would temporary farm workers not come at this time? According to reports eu immigrants are not coming in the same numbers. Farmers weren't directly recruiting workers from their native countries they were already here and there were intermediates that would arrange the work with the farmers. These intermediates are trying to establish lives in the UK for their "clients" who can't speak English. Some of these are scumbags who end up putting 20 Romanians in a 2 bed flat and take a substantial cut from their earnings, others are decent honest men. Potential immigrants now know they will not be able to stay indefinitely at least not legally and will seek similar opportunities to establish lives in other EU countries. We don't have the agencies in place to bring in enough seasonal workers to meet demand and cover the shortfall created by those looking to live in the UK going elsewhere. It is probably only temporary and won't take long for more seasonal working agencies to establish themselves, (most likely charging a higher premium) it won't devastate the farming industry but a shortening of supply of labour will push costs and subsequently prices up. It isn't a disaster but it is further indication that we have gone into this whole process wholly unprepared. 1
Captain... Posted 5 August 2017 Posted 5 August 2017 16 minutes ago, davieG said: Don't ask them tell them, want a loan get picking some marrows Fine by me, further steps towards the socialist utopia we all dream of
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