Guest Posted 7 February 2018 Posted 7 February 2018 25 minutes ago, MattP said: Definitely, I certainly wasn't referring to him, he's a free speech champion and would rather debate anything than shut it down.
Guest Posted 7 February 2018 Posted 7 February 2018 11 minutes ago, Innovindil said: Personally think the whole investment/productivity vs migration debate is a lot like the chicken and the egg. If I was running a big company, I don't think I'd be investing potentially millions of pounds to raise productivity when a simple job advertisement in Poland could get you all the low paid workers you'd need. At least that's what I saw at the argos warehouse a few years back. No need to work out better ways to do the work when you can get as many people as you need on £7.50/hr. There possibly some truth to that but at the same time Britain has been crap at innovating, investing in tech etc for decades. It hasn't led the world at anything since the industrial revolution. UK firms didn't invest properly in becoming more productive before EU migration. That's one reason why the EU was good for us economically.
Buce Posted 7 February 2018 Posted 7 February 2018 13 minutes ago, Innovindil said: Personally think the whole investment/productivity vs migration debate is a lot like the chicken and the egg. If I was running a big company, I don't think I'd be investing potentially millions of pounds to raise productivity when a simple job advertisement in Poland could get you all the low paid workers you'd need. At least that's what I saw at the argos warehouse a few years back. No need to work out better ways to do the work when you can get as many people as you need on £7.50/hr. Cheap chlorinated American chicken?
Guest MattP Posted 7 February 2018 Posted 7 February 2018 4 minutes ago, toddybad said: Deadly serious. Don't always agree but you've never tried to slander someone to shut down a debate, believe me many have and do!
Buce Posted 7 February 2018 Posted 7 February 2018 4 minutes ago, MattP said: Deadly serious. Don't always agree but you've never tried to slander someone to shut down a debate, believe me many have and do! But if it's on here it wouldn't be slander. https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/differences-between-defamation-slander-and-libel
Buce Posted 7 February 2018 Posted 7 February 2018 Theresa May refuses to exclude NHS contracts from US trade deals https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/07/theresa-may-refuses-to-rule-out-nhs-contracts-from-us-trade-deals Theresa May has refused to rule out giving US companies access to NHS contracts as part of a future trade deal with Donald Trump’s White House. At prime minister’s questions on Wednesday, the Liberal Democrat leader, Vince Cable, challenged May over how she would respond if Washington pushed for access to Britain’s public services for US corporations. “The prime minister knows that one of the key objectives of American trade negotiators in any future deal after Brexit is to secure access for American companies to business in the NHS,” he said. “Can she give an absolute guarantee that in those negotiations the NHS will be excluded from their scope? And can she confirm that in her conversations with President Trump she’s made it absolutely clear to him that the NHS is not for sale?” The prime minister refused to do so, instead insisting that Cable, a former business secretary, “doesn’t know what they’re going to say in their requirements for that free trade agreement. We will go into those negotiations to get the best possible deal for the United Kingdom.” Afterwards May’s press secretary repeatedly refused to comment further. He stressed that as part of TTIP, the US-EU trade deal that has never been finalised, the UK had secured exemptions to ensure the NHS could not be targeted. However, he would not rule out, in principle, US private sector involvement in the NHS in future. “When we looked at the debate on TTIP we were very clear from our side that the NHS has special protections and in effect wouldn’t be included,” he said. “We do not yet have an existing position on a trade deal that is yet to be negotiated. “It is very much a hypothetical.” A spokesman for the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, condemned May’s failure to rule the NHS out of any future deal, saying Britain’s voters would never accept the “cherry-picking” of public sector contracts by US corporations. “I think it’s clear that the failure to rule out the kind of predatory corporate access to our NHS means that’s part of the deal that is being considered by our PM and considered by this government.” The health secretary, Jeremy Hunt, hit back at Trump earlier this week when the president claimed on Twitter that the NHS was “going broke and not working”. Hunt replied directly, saying: “NHS may have challenges but I’m proud to be from the country that invented universal coverage – where all get care no matter the size of their bank balance.” The Labour MP Peter Kyle, of the campaign group Open Britain, said after PMQs: “Theresa May just gave Donald Trump the green light to get his hands on our National Health Service. “Just days after the US president took to Twitter to insult the NHS, the prime minister was given a clear opportunity to rule out opening up our health service to private competition from US companies. Her clear refusal to do so underlines her weakness in trade negotiations and should concern us all.” The international trade secretary, Liam Fox, intends to begin negotiating deals with non-EU countries as soon as possible after Brexit.
Innovindil Posted 7 February 2018 Posted 7 February 2018 51 minutes ago, Buce said: Cheap chlorinated American chicken? And European fipronil contaminated eggs. Om nom nom nom.
leicsmac Posted 7 February 2018 Posted 7 February 2018 If it comes to it I honestly think May would draw a red line at including NHS contracts in negotiations with the Americans, even if she's hedging her bets now - simply because it would be political suicide.
Strokes Posted 7 February 2018 Posted 7 February 2018 17 minutes ago, Innovindil said: And European fipronil contaminated eggs. Om nom nom nom. Romanian horse lasagne.
Guest Posted 7 February 2018 Posted 7 February 2018 19 minutes ago, leicsmac said: If it comes to it I honestly think May would draw a red line at including NHS contracts in negotiations with the Americans, even if she's hedging her bets now - simply because it would be political suicide. I'm not sure she can. The Tories health and social care act opened up nhs services to any qualified provider. Private services can therefore tender for any aspect of nhs business. There's nothing to stop US firms. I don't think the public realise how far down the privatisation road we've already been taken.
leicsmac Posted 7 February 2018 Posted 7 February 2018 1 minute ago, toddybad said: I'm not sure she can. The Tories health and social care act opened up nhs services to any qualified provider. Private services can therefore tender for any aspect of nhs business. There's nothing to stop US firms. I don't think the public realise how far down the privatisation road we've already been taken. If it was political suicide in the way I think it might be, such an act could be repealed.
Guest MattP Posted 7 February 2018 Posted 7 February 2018 21 minutes ago, leicsmac said: If it comes to it I honestly think May would draw a red line at including NHS contracts in negotiations with the Americans, even if she's hedging her bets now - simply because it would be political suicide. No government would ever do it, the public backlash would be like nothing we have ever seen before, would be suicide. I'm looking forward to the post Brexit landscape where governments are going to be totally held to their decisions though, things like this are where they will now earn their money and be judged rather than claiming they can't do anything or change anything because of external regulation.
Webbo Posted 7 February 2018 Posted 7 February 2018 If we're allowing private companies to do work for the NHS why shouldn't those companies be American?
Guest Posted 7 February 2018 Posted 7 February 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, leicsmac said: If it was political suicide in the way I think it might be, such an act could be repealed. Private businesses already deal with hundreds of millions (probably billions but I don't have the figures to hand) worth of NHS business. They'll just stick to the free at the point of use mantra. It ignores the fact that: A- something like £10billion a year is being spent on procurement and contract monitoring B- the tories are letting NHS trusts fall into unmanageable deficits. Can you not think why they might be doing that? Let's not forget that for 40 years it's been a case of pubic sector bad, private sector good for conservatives. Edited 7 February 2018 by Guest
Guest Posted 7 February 2018 Posted 7 February 2018 10 minutes ago, Webbo said: If we're allowing private companies to do work for the NHS why shouldn't those companies be American? I think if the uk public truly understood what the government had done over recent years they'd be up in arms already.
Webbo Posted 7 February 2018 Posted 7 February 2018 Just now, toddybad said: I think if the uk public truly understood what the government had done over recent years they'd be up in arms already. I doubt I would.
Webbo Posted 7 February 2018 Posted 7 February 2018 Just now, toddybad said: So do I. We agree at last.
Guest MattP Posted 7 February 2018 Posted 7 February 2018 5 minutes ago, toddybad said: Private businesses already deal with hundreds of millions (probably billions but I don't have the figures to hand) worth of NHS business. They'll just stick to the free at the point of use mantra. It ignores the fact that: A- something like £10billion a year is being spent on procurement and contract monitoring B- the tories are letting NHS trusts fall into unmanageable deficits. Can you not think why they might be doing that? Let's not forget that for 40 years it's been a case of pubic sector bad, private sector good for conservatives. Did Labour ever get around to working out just how much reversing all this PFI would cost? I remember McDonnell and RBL saying they were working on it after the election.
Guest Posted 7 February 2018 Posted 7 February 2018 1 minute ago, MattP said: Did Labour ever get around to working out just how much reversing all this PFI would cost? I remember McDonnell and RBL saying they were working on it after the election. That's a different question isn't it - and I've never defended the use of pfis. I'm not convinced that the initial glib response of labour will ever be put into real policy but I think I heard them come up with a more nuanced/realistic initial proposal. That doesn't though deal with the privatisation of core NHS services which has already happened, just without great fanfare.
Guest Posted 7 February 2018 Posted 7 February 2018 London gains and everywhere else takes a pasting #takingbackcontrol #turkeysvotingforxmas
Webbo Posted 7 February 2018 Posted 7 February 2018 2 minutes ago, toddybad said: London gains and everywhere else takes a pasting #takingbackcontrol #turkeysvotingforxmas Haven't we already said that those prediction are worthless?
Guest MattP Posted 7 February 2018 Posted 7 February 2018 5 minutes ago, toddybad said: London gains and everywhere else takes a pasting #takingbackcontrol #turkeysvotingforxmas Still believing these? Strange. Anything else the government tells you and you go into auto-pilot to not believe it.
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