Politics Thread (encompassing Brexit) - 21 June 2017 onwards

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Haven't we already said that those prediction are worthless?

 

5 minutes ago, MattP said:

Still believing these? Strange.

 

Anything else the government tells you and you go into auto-pilot to not believe it.

 

[Webbo]

Just now, toddybad said:

 

 

What were those people saying before the referendum and how accurate were they?

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Webbo said:

What were those people saying before the referendum and how accurate were they?

It's hard to tell given that we haven't left the EU yet, isn't it?

But ignoring dozens of studies and choosing one you like isn't really a strong place for you to begin a debate.

 

Edited 7 February 2018 by Guest

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, toddybad said:

It's hard to tell given that we haven't left the EU yet, isn't it?

But ignoring dozens of studies and choosing one you like isn't really a strong place for you to begin a debate.

 

They claimed the vote would an immediate effect. Ignoring what actually happened and just picking predictions that suit your argument isn't a strong point for you.

[Guest MattP]

3 minutes ago, toddybad said:

 

 

Well it's a good job from the evidence we have from the forecasts in the immediate aftermath of the vote, Economists for Brexit were by far the closest! Great start!

 

Just look at the others here -

 

LSE - Overtly Pro-Remain.

 

The Treasury - Architect of project fear.

 

OECD - Paris based.

 

CBI - Receives funding from the EU.

 

NEISR - Already vasted upgraded the forecast here.

 

What a shower.

[Strokes]

24 minutes ago, MattP said:

Well it's a good job from the evidence we have from the forecasts in the immediate aftermath of the vote, Economists for Brexit were by far the closest! Great start!

 

Just look at the others here -

 

LSE - Overtly Pro-Remain.

 

The Treasury - Architect of project fear.

 

OECD - Paris based.

 

CBI - Receives funding from the EU.

 

NEISR - Already vasted upgraded the forecast here.

 

What a shower.

I’d still vote to leave if it were guaranteed -8%.

[Guest MattP]

8 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I’d still vote to leave if it were guaranteed -8%.

As would I. It was never about economics. 

[Grebfromgrebland]

It's not about economics for some people but everything will boil down to economics when it affects their lives.

 

For example Teresa May hasn't discounted the idea of selling the NHS which would be 100% due to brexit. This will be a disaster but we won't have much choice the hard line Tory party will have no qualms dismantling the NHS and schools for some off pay day.

 

Donald Trump loves brexit as he knows this is his chance to get his cronies to run massive parts of our infrastructure such as the NHS and have no come back for making mistakes plus they will be able to sue our government if they don't get what they want. If you think things are bad now wait till we don't have the EU to keep our government in check.

 

What people don't get is that you cannot trust any British government to do what's right for it's people and that's where the EU was worth being part of.

 

It's not the EUs fault that schools hospitals roads libraries doctors nurses teachers later life care and the general happiness of the nation is at crisis point it's our governments fault for decades of mismanagement and under investment. 

 

The EU for all its faults forced our government to look after its people by trying make us have clean air to breath, have workers rights so we're not forced to do 70 hour weeks, clear the shit from our beaches and the sea and hundred of other things which we stand to lose. 

 

Can't people remember when certain beaches were no go zones due to the raw sewage bring poured over them. The EU forced the UK to sort it out which we did reluctantly. 

 

In short most of what is good about your life is most likely down to the EU. 

 

Once we leave life will be a lot worse for the poorest in society but that's ok as it's not about economics it's about something else.  It's not going to be about having a better life for your children or their children though screw them.

[Grebfromgrebland]

36 minutes ago, MattP said:

As would I. It was never about economics. 

What was it about really then? Deep down what makes you feel so strongly about voting to leave? I'd really like to know.

[Rogstanley]

40 minutes ago, MattP said:

As would I. It was never about economics. 

What was it about?

[Innovindil]

2 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

It's not about economics for some people but everything will boil down to economics when it affects their lives.

 

For example Teresa May hasn't discounted the idea of selling the NHS which would be 100% due to brexit. This will be a disaster but we won't have much choice the hard line Tory party will have no qualms dismantling the NHS and schools for some off pay day.

 

Donald Trump loves brexit as he knows this is his chance to get his cronies to run massive parts of our infrastructure such as the NHS and have no come back for making mistakes plus they will be able to sue our government if they don't get what they want. If you think things are bad now wait till we don't have the EU to keep our government in check.

 

What people don't get is that you cannot trust any British government to do what's right for it's people and that's where the EU was worth being part of.

 

It's not the EUs fault that schools hospitals roads libraries doctors nurses teachers later life care and the general happiness of the nation is at crisis point it's our governments fault for decades of mismanagement and under investment. 

 

The EU for all its faults forced our government to look after its people by trying make us have clean air to breath, have workers rights so we're not forced to do 70 hour weeks, clear the shit from our beaches and the sea and hundred of other things which we stand to lose. 

 

Can't people remember when certain beaches were no go zones due to the raw sewage bring poured over them. The EU forced the UK to sort it out which we did reluctantly. 

 

In short most of what is good about your life is most likely down to the EU. 

 

Once we leave life will be a lot worse for the poorest in society but that's ok as it's not about economics it's about something else.  It's not going to be about having a better life for your children or their children though screw them.

Alright Jean-Claude calm down lad. Think you need another whisky. 

[Strokes]

4 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

It's not about economics for some people but everything will boil down to economics when it affects their lives.

 

For example Teresa May hasn't discounted the idea of selling the NHS which would be 100% due to brexit. This will be a disaster but we won't have much choice the hard line Tory party will have no qualms dismantling the NHS and schools for some off pay day.

 

Donald Trump loves brexit as he knows this is his chance to get his cronies to run massive parts of our infrastructure such as the NHS and have no come back for making mistakes plus they will be able to sue our government if they don't get what they want. If you think things are bad now wait till we don't have the EU to keep our government in check.

 

What people don't get is that you cannot trust any British government to do what's right for it's people and that's where the EU was worth being part of.

 

It's not the EUs fault that schools hospitals roads libraries doctors nurses teachers later life care and the general happiness of the nation is at crisis point it's our governments fault for decades of mismanagement and under investment. 

 

The EU for all its faults forced our government to look after its people by trying make us have clean air to breath, have workers rights so we're not forced to do 70 hour weeks, clear the shit from our beaches and the sea and hundred of other things which we stand to lose. 

 

Can't people remember when certain beaches were no go zones due to the raw sewage bring poured over them. The EU forced the UK to sort it out which we did reluctantly. 

 

In short most of what is good about your life is most likely down to the EU. 

 

Once we leave life will be a lot worse for the poorest in society but that's ok as it's not about economics it's about something else.  It's not going to be about having a better life for your children or their children though screw them.

If ttip had gotten through, the EU would have gladly sold off our NHS and still might if we were to remain.

[Strokes]

2 minutes ago, Rogstanley said:

What was it about?

Passport colours.

[Buce]

15 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

What was it about really then? Deep down what makes you feel so strongly about voting to leave? I'd really like to know.

 

12 minutes ago, Rogstanley said:

What was it about?

 

Taking back control of our poetry or something.

[Webbo]

Not ruled out selling the NHS. And remain voters claim to be the intelligent ones.

[Rogstanley]

3 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Not ruled out selling the NHS. And remain voters claim to be the intelligent ones.

That's not a claim.

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, Rogstanley said:

That's not a claim.

It is on the evidence of this thread and a very poor claim too.

[Rogstanley]

3 minutes ago, Webbo said:

It is on the evidence of this thread and a very poor claim too.

 

Keep dreaming mate.

 

[Strokes]

I’m having an Independence Day party at mine on the 29th March, you’re all invited rsvp x

[Guest MattP]

46 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

What was it about really then? Deep down what makes you feel so strongly about voting to leave? I'd really like to know.

 

43 minutes ago, Rogstanley said:

What was it about?

For me it was about our own government doing its own tr.....in fact what's the point? Told you ten times and you still don't listen so....

 

Its about attacking Romanians, Blue Passports, singing Rule Brittania and flying into Germany afterwards and mentioning the war. No Muslamics either.

 

Hopefully we can also sell the NHS to Donald Trump for giggles.

[Webbo]

4 minutes ago, MattP said:

 

For me it was about our own government doing its own tr.....in fact what's the point? Told you ten times and you still don't listen so....

 

Its about attacking Romanians, Blue Passports, singing Rule Brittania and flying into Germany afterwards and mentioning the war. No Muslamics either.

 

Hopefully we can also sell the NHS to Donald Trump for giggles.

Don't forget ruining the future for young people, big motivation for me.

[Guest MattP]

4 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Don't forget ruining the future for young people, big motivation for me.

Selling off the NHS was the big one though. 

 

I mean forget the EU when they were prepared to flog it off with TTIP to grab some dollar, that wasn't Tory enough, I want a proper Tory sell off of it. 

 

#somethingabouttoriesnhscrueltoriescutstories

[Rogstanley]

18 minutes ago, MattP said:

 

For me it was about our own government doing its own tr.....in fact what's the point? Told you ten times and you still don't listen so....

 

Its about attacking Romanians, Blue Passports, singing Rule Brittania and flying into Germany afterwards and mentioning the war. No Muslamics either.

 

Hopefully we can also sell the NHS to Donald Trump for giggles.

Doing its own tr... trade deals? How is that not about the economy then? The whole purpose of a trade deal is for economic gain.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Webbo said:

They claimed the vote would an immediate effect. Ignoring what actually happened and just picking predictions that suit your argument isn't a strong point for you.

2 hours ago, MattP said:

Well it's a good job from the evidence we have from the forecasts in the immediate aftermath of the vote, Economists for Brexit were by far the closest! Great start!

 

Just look at the others here -

 

LSE - Overtly Pro-Remain.

 

The Treasury - Architect of project fear.

 

OECD - Paris based.

 

CBI - Receives funding from the EU.

 

NEISR - Already vasted upgraded the forecast here.

 

What a shower.

We went from top of g7 growth to bottom so it's ahead had a demostrable negative effect on growth before we've even left. Quite how you leavers always forget to mention this I'm not sure. 

1 hour ago, MattP said:

As would I. It was never about economics. 

 

[Strokes]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/22/ttip-deal-real-serious-risk-nhs-leading-qc

TTIP deal poses 'real and serious risk' to NHS, says leading QC

Unite union set to present law expert’s advice to government, who they believe have kept Britain in the dark over deal’s potential impact on health service.

 

The legal advice was prepared by one of the UK’s leading QCs on European law for the Unite trade union, which will reveal on Monday that it has been holding talks with the government about the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) deal between Europeand the US.

Unite believes the government has been keeping Britain in the dark over the impact of the deal and argues the NHS should be excluded from the trade deal. The government dismissed the idea that TTIP poses a threat as “irresponsible and false”.

 

TTIP would give investors new legal rights, which extend beyond both UK and EU law as well as NHS contracts, according to Michael Bowsher QC, a former chair of the Bar Council’s EU law committee who was tasked by Unite to prepare the advice. 

Bowsher said he had concluded that the deal poses “a real and serious risk” to future UK government decision making regarding the NHS.

“We consider that the solution to the problems TTIP poses to the NHS – and which is likely to provide the greatest protection – is for the NHS to be excluded from the agreement by way of a blanket exception contained within the main text of TTIP,” Bowsher said.

In the most explicit warning from a figure of prominence about the potential threat to the NHS from the deal – which may yet prove a rallying point for leftwing out campaigners in the EU referendum – he also warned that it could allow private companies with links to NHS contracts to win higher levels of compensation through bypassing domestic courts. 

He also said that TTIP’s procurement rules could force the NHS to contract out services it wants to keep in house or spin off them off as “mutuals”

 

Unite, which has already held a series of high-level meetings with officials from the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (BIS) and with the minister for trade, Francis Maude, will present Bowsher’s advice to the government on Tuesday.

Unite’s assistant general secretary, Gail Cartmail, said: “The UK government has no right to allow EU bureaucrats to negotiate away our ability to control the future of our NHS. David Cameron has the power to exclude the NHS from the trade deal – he must act and prevent the irreversible sale of our NHS.

TTIP: the key to freer trade, or corporate greed?

Campaigners have already accused the government of blocking access to legal adviceshowing its impact on the health service and the extent to which private health companies could sue the government using a secret tribunal system if a Whitehall policy change were to hit their profits.

Unite said that Maude has admitted to having legal advice concerning the TTIP’s potential impact on the NHS but has blocked a freedom of information request to obtain the advice, citing “legal professional privilege”.

A BIS spokesperson said: “The NHS is under no threat whatsoever from the TTIP deal or any other trade and investment agreement. It cannot force the UK to privatise public services or prevent it from regulating in the public interest and any suggestion to the contrary is both irresponsible and false.

“It will remain up to the UK government and devolved administrations to decide how to run publicly funded health services, including whether private companies should be involved. Where a service has previously been provided by a private provider, this is not irreversible.”