Charl91 Posted 25 September 2018 Share Posted 25 September 2018 (edited) Labour are a shambles at the moment. Depressing really. Keir Starmer for PM. Edited 25 September 2018 by Charl91 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salisbury Fox Posted 25 September 2018 Share Posted 25 September 2018 18 minutes ago, davieG said: Yes so by definition British Rail were underfunded so it's unfair to compare how they performed against a proper funded half privatised alternative. Not quite, if there are signicantly more people using the service (which we should be able to agree that there has been a signicant population increase) then clearly the costs are going to be exponentially increased too. That and the crossrail, HS2 costs being factored in make it an unfair comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 25 September 2018 Share Posted 25 September 2018 9 minutes ago, Charl91 said: Labour are a shambles at the moment. Depressing really. Keir Starmer for PM. Absolutely no chance do the membership go for him. Far too centrist and then haven't gone through all this to just hand it back to the moderates. It's Thornberry, RBL, Rayner, McDonnell or Abbott next. Wouldn't even surprise me if guys like Chris Williamson or Emma Dent-Coad got on the ballot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charl91 Posted 25 September 2018 Share Posted 25 September 2018 4 minutes ago, MattP said: Absolutely no chance do the membership go for him. Far too centrist and then haven't gone through all this to just hand it back to the moderates. It's Thornberry, RBL, Rayner, McDonnell or Abbott next. Wouldn't even surprise me if guys like Chris Williamson or Emma Dent-Coad got on the ballot. Yeah, sadly I agree with you. It's a shame really, because I think he'd genuinely have a chance of winning a general election, which none of the above have a hope of doing. Wouldn't mind Tom Watson either, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 25 September 2018 Share Posted 25 September 2018 2 hours ago, Charl91 said: Yeah, sadly I agree with you. It's a shame really, because I think he'd genuinely have a chance of winning a general election, which none of the above have a hope of doing. Wouldn't mind Tom Watson either, though. Would win a majority with him comfortably I think. Corbyn best PM rating was about 22% this week - amazing how Labour poll rating still stands at 35%+ despite that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 25 September 2018 Share Posted 25 September 2018 I actually agree with Mehdi Hasan an on something, feel slightly sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 26 September 2018 Share Posted 26 September 2018 Bunch of friggin nutters. One of em's calling for a general strike in order to force a general election. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 26 September 2018 Share Posted 26 September 2018 1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said: Bunch of friggin nutters. One of em's calling for a general strike in order to force a general election. How do these people even become MP's? How stupid have you got to be to stand on a stage being filmed and come out with such nonsense? You would think Labour were 30 points ahead in the polls the way some of them behave, not behind one of the most incompetent governments in living memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 26 September 2018 Share Posted 26 September 2018 37 minutes ago, MattP said: How do these people even become MP's? How stupid have you got to be to stand on a stage being filmed and come out with such nonsense? You would think Labour were 30 points ahead in the polls the way some of them behave, not behind one of the most incompetent governments in living memory. Always been the same, used to work in a trade union shop and the union reps were exactly the same. Who shouts loudest, busy doing nothing and coming up with daft ideas to justify their jobs and think the work force was behind them, but the reality was, let them get on with it as long as they're not bothering me. The only recent Labour mp i thought made any sense was John Prescott, and they got rid of him because he said it how it was! Comrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnaldo Posted 26 September 2018 Share Posted 26 September 2018 41 minutes ago, MattP said: How do these people even become MP's? How stupid have you got to be to stand on a stage being filmed and come out with such nonsense? You would think Labour were 30 points ahead in the polls the way some of them behave, not behind one of the most incompetent governments in living memory. During the Palestinian controversy, Chris Williamson tweeted any Labour member criticising Corbyn was betraying 'the movement'. What kind of proto-Stalinist statement is that. Labour is being poisoned from the inside and its a massive shame, if not for the total lack of strong opposition. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 26 September 2018 Share Posted 26 September 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 26 September 2018 Share Posted 26 September 2018 2 hours ago, yorkie1999 said: Bunch of friggin nutters. One of em's calling for a general strike in order to force a general election. The blatant lies from some of them, just watch this video https://order-order.com/2018/09/26/burgons-general-strike-porkies/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sampson Posted 26 September 2018 Share Posted 26 September 2018 I honestly think the last thing the majority of the UK population want right now is another general election. The last one, the Conservatives were rightly punished for holding a needless, far-too-soon election and if Labour pushed for one now I'm pretty sure they'd be punished as well. No one I know wants a general election any time soon at all, all this constant short-termism and elections every year or two just hamper anyone being able to do anything. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 26 September 2018 Share Posted 26 September 2018 2 hours ago, MattP said: How do these people even become MP's? How stupid have you got to be to stand on a stage being filmed and come out with such nonsense? You would think Labour were 30 points ahead in the polls the way some of them behave, not behind one of the most incompetent governments in living memory. 49 minutes ago, MattP said: The blatant lies from some of them, just watch this video https://order-order.com/2018/09/26/burgons-general-strike-porkies/ Completely agree with your first post. Absolutely stupid speech by Laura Smith. I know she's a new, young MP. But even a new, young MP should have the awareness to know that calling for a general strike isn't going to go down well with the wider public, beyond the committed Momentum activists in the room. Suggests some candidates/MPs do not have the requisite minimum of experience, judgement or training/preparation. I agree with the response from Tom Watson & Rebecca Long-Bailey: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45651033 It's also about some politicians spending too much time in a bubble - a left-wing bubble, in this case, though you'll see inhabitants of right-wing bubbles next week. To be fair to Burgon (clip in your second post), he doesn't look greatly enthused by the call for a general strike. Applauds politely and then stands up when all the Momentum audience stands up. Looks like he's going along with the crowd....which itself doesn't say much for him, when he's a front-bench spokesman. Ideally, he'd have made a pointed but humorous intervention to get her to tone down her ridiculous rhetoric....but easier said than done when the Momentum audience loved the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 26 September 2018 Share Posted 26 September 2018 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Sampson said: I honestly think the last thing the majority of the UK population want right now is another general election. The last one, the Conservatives were rightly punished for holding a needless, far-too-soon election and if Labour pushed for one now I'm pretty sure they'd be punished as well. No one I know wants a general election any time soon at all, all this constant short-termism and elections every year or two just hamper anyone being able to do anything. I'm sure you're right that few in the real world will be delighted if we end up with another election - though who they'll blame for it, I've no idea. The problem is finding ANY way forward from the current Brexit impasse. Maybe May will do a deal that somehow gets through Parliament - or some other leader, group or party will come up with something that both the EU and Parliament will approve. But, at the moment, it looks as if there's NO solution that will achieve that. Logically, that leaves us heading towards No Deal, which might happen, but I cannot see Parliament accepting that either....hence the distinct possibility that we'll end up with an election or another referendum. All as clear as mud! Meanwhile, here's Brenda from Bristol.... Edited 26 September 2018 by Alf Bentley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 26 September 2018 Share Posted 26 September 2018 4 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said: Completely agree with your first post. Absolutely stupid speech by Laura Smith. I know she's a new, young MP. But even a new, young MP should have the awareness to know that calling for a general strike isn't going to go down well with the wider public, beyond the committed Momentum activists in the room. Suggests some candidates/MPs do not have the requisite minimum of experience, judgement or training/preparation. I agree with the response from Tom Watson & Rebecca Long-Bailey: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45651033 It's also about some politicians spending too much time in a bubble - a left-wing bubble, in this case, though you'll see inhabitants of right-wing bubbles next week. To be fair to Burgon (clip in your second post), he doesn't look greatly enthused by the call for a general strike. Applauds politely and then stands up when all the Momentum audience stands up. Looks like he's going along with the crowd....which itself doesn't say much for him, when he's a front-bench spokesman. Ideally, he'd have made a pointed but humorous intervention to get her to tone down her ridiculous rhetoric....but easier said than done when the Momentum audience loved the idea. To be fair to Richard Burgon he has clarified his actions according to Mark Wallace, he didn't give her a standing ovation, he just stood up and clapped. I get the point about her being new etc but this sort of thinking from people who actually make our laws is pretty shocking - we had an election last year and Labour lost, current polling indicates another hung parliament and some of this mob think it's acceptable to call for nurses and doctors to walk out of hospitals to try and get another one just a year into a fixed term parliament - the lack of thinking is what gets me, that wouldn't have been an off the cuff remark, it was a pre-prepared speech. She actually thinks that should happen. I expect the Tory conference next week to be the start of the serious split in the party - the membership are overwhelmingly Eurosceptic and I think we'll see numerous political attacks on the Remain faction as the ERG types flex their muscles towards the Canada style deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alf Bentley Posted 26 September 2018 Share Posted 26 September 2018 5 minutes ago, MattP said: I get the point about her being new etc but this sort of thinking from people who actually make our laws is pretty shocking - we had an election last year and Labour lost, current polling indicates another hung parliament and some of this mob think it's acceptable to call for nurses and doctors to walk out of hospitals to try and get another one just a year into a fixed term parliament - the lack of thinking is what gets me, that wouldn't have been an off the cuff remark, it was a pre-prepared speech. She actually thinks that should happen. With any democratic political organisation, up to and including national govt, there needs to be an appropriate balance of influence between the leadership and the members/voters. The leadership cannot just ignore members/voters, but equally they cannot allow members/voters to dictate policy. Leaders cannot just be followers. Sometimes they need to tell members/voters a few home truths. There's currently a big ferment of excitement among activists on the Left of the Labour Party, some of them Hard Left activists for decades, others young and filled with anger, enthusiasm, idealism, naivety or whatever. They think - maybe rightly but maybe quite wrongly - that they might be on the verge of power. I get the impression that some of the less experienced MPs/spokespeople are allowing the enthused grassroots to dictate too much. It's the job of the party leadership to ensure that the party appeals to enough voters to win elections - and doesn't just appeal to Momentum activists at rallies. We might end up with another election. If so, that will be because Parliament sees that gamble as a better option than an ongoing Brexit impasse or No Deal. There is simply no groundswell of support for a general strike. Most workers are not even union members, and I'm sure most of those who are in unions have no interest in a general strike to bring down the govt, even if they'd like a change of govt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpTheLeagueFox Posted 26 September 2018 Share Posted 26 September 2018 22 minutes ago, MattP said: we had an election last year and Labour lost No they didn't, Labour won the election. Well I'm pretty sure that's what Labour said at the time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted 26 September 2018 Share Posted 26 September 2018 20 hours ago, MattP said: Absolutely no chance do the membership go for him. Far too centrist and then haven't gone through all this to just hand it back to the moderates. It's Thornberry, RBL, Rayner, McDonnell or Abbott next. Wouldn't even surprise me if guys like Chris Williamson or Emma Dent-Coad got on the ballot. Abbott ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 26 September 2018 Share Posted 26 September 2018 5 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said: Abbott ? Mate, she tallied her supporters up, she's got a 174% chance of winning the next leadership bid. Laugh at your peril. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted 26 September 2018 Share Posted 26 September 2018 2 minutes ago, Innovindil said: Mate, she tallied her supporters up, she's got a 174% chance of winning the next leadership bid. Laugh at your peril. I have contacts in PR that look after / keep an eye on her. Nervous, busy people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 26 September 2018 Share Posted 26 September 2018 Politcians in Britain seem to have forgotten their role and who they REALLY represent. It's depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 26 September 2018 Share Posted 26 September 2018 One thing I forgot @Alf Bentley - Richard Burgon is the actually the shadow justice secretary So we've got him giving a standing ovation to calls for an illegal strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 26 September 2018 Share Posted 26 September 2018 (edited) For those who are Labour members can you explain why Palestine is now such a huge issue? I get its always been a part of the cause for the left in general but how has become so big and so important so quickly? Voted as a more important issue than Brexit and the NHS on the list of topics to discuss at conference and the crowd is full of people waving the flag, they interviewed a couple of members on Politics live as well and they both had the flag on the lanyard. I'm trying to think of another nation where a major political party would converge and you would see hundreds of flags from a different nation and not see a single one of their own country. From the outside looking in its so strange. Edited 26 September 2018 by MattP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salisbury Fox Posted 26 September 2018 Share Posted 26 September 2018 6 hours ago, yorkie1999 said: Bunch of friggin nutters. One of em's calling for a general strike in order to force a general election. Yep, illegal too as it would come under secondary action: https://www.gov.uk/industrial-action-strikes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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