Technology, Science and the Environment.

[yorkie1999]

On 04/07/2019 at 21:14, Buce said:

 

Who knew?

Tree planting 'has mind-blowing potential' to tackle climate crisis

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jul/04/planting-billions-trees-best-tackle-climate-crisis-scientists-canopy-emissions

 

Sigh. 

Brazil: huge rise in Amazon destruction under Bolsonaro, figures show

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/03/brazil-amazon-rainforest-deforestation-environment

 

Me, 30 years ago.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1154774/Bristol-latest-BBC-news-Climate-Change-protest-Extinction-Rebellion-activist-roadblock

 

Climate protestors undermining their own movement

[leicsmac]

25 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1154774/Bristol-latest-BBC-news-Climate-Change-protest-Extinction-Rebellion-activist-roadblock

 

Climate protestors undermining their own movement

The situation really needs cooler heads on all sides to prevail.

 

The more provocative and political this is made the less likely what needs to be done gets done. It's frustrating.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

The situation really needs cooler heads on all sides to prevail.

 

The more provocative and political this is made the less likely what needs to be done gets done. It's frustrating.

Agree. I think it would have been fine had she just left it at the apology and said this isnt the right way to do things.

 

Seems to have annoyed people that she mitigated the apology

[leicsmac]

2 hours ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

Agree. I think it would have been fine had she just left it at the apology and said this isnt the right way to do things.

 

Seems to have annoyed people that she mitigated the apology

Evidently it isn't the right way to do things (and tbh the UK have a better record on environmental issues than most other places), but honestly sometimes I despair of ways to get things moving faster - and indeed moving at all in some places - by convincing more people that change (either through personal habits or pushing governments for official policy) is needed.

Edited 18 July 2019 by leicsmac

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49040058

 

Humanity has to be ready for more summers like this one, with all the food and potable water-related stresses that potentially entails. And worse.

[Collymore]

6 hours ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49040058

 

Humanity has to be ready for more summers like this one, with all the food and potable water-related stresses that potentially entails. And worse.

"Nine of the 10 hottest Junes on its 1880-2019 record have occurred in the past nine years, it said. Last month beat June 2016 to be named the hottest"

 

I used to be a bit sceptical of climate change but this stat blows any argument out of the water.

 

The Earth would go through natural warming and cooling cycles with out any human activity but not as quickly as that I'd imagine, unless some super volcano errupted of course... 

[MC Prussian]

8 hours ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49040058

 

Humanity has to be ready for more summers like this one, with all the food and potable water-related stresses that potentially entails. And worse.

Meanwhile, the global population keeps on growing... Africa and Asia, I'm looking at you in particular.

 

We all know what that means in terms of demand for water, food and shelter. But instead of talking about causes, the public debate too often circles around the effects and becomes populist and haphazardous.

 

[davieG]

Perhaps the Extinction Rebellion and other Climate Change protests groups should give these open air Festivals some attention

 

Video shows shocking number of tents left behind at Download festival

Other equipment and unopened alcohol also littered the site

 

This is the shocking amount of rubbish left behind after Download Festival.

One festivalgoer was so taken aback by the huge amount of camping equipment left behind he captured it on video.

Artist Mike Gutteridge was among the very last to leave the Castle Donington site after the music festival last month and the sight of abandoned items inspired him to get out his phone, to film a video, and add a poem he wrote as a soundtrack.

The video, which has had more than 500 views on YouTube, features dozens of tents – some of them that seem to have been partly taken down, but then abandoned – as well as sleeping bags, ground sheets, chairs, full cans of alcohol,

Mike, 26, who is a graphic artist and lives in Berkshire, said: “I’ve been going to festivals for years and years and I’ve never really been hit by this before

 

“On the Monday, when we packed up and left Download, I was pretty much the last to leave the site at midday.

“I took the video because I couldn’t believe how many people couldn’t take the time to pack up things and take them home with them.

“There were hundreds of tents as well as camp chairs and left over alcohol and all sorts of other things.

“It doesn’t really make sense to me – people pay all this money for their gear and just abandon it.

“It would be understandable if it was broken beyond repair but it was all perfectly good gear.

 

“It’s not the festival organisers’ fault people abandon all their stuff. It’s such a waste and it probably ends up being thrown into landfill. It’s happening at other festivals all over, every year.

“We all need to start doing our bit to stop this.”

[UniFox21]

Would it be worth organisers charging more for tickets to provide tents etc; that way potentially reducing waste if they can be re-used the following year?

[yorkie1999]

3 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

Would it be worth organisers charging more for tickets to provide tents etc; that way potentially reducing waste if they can be re-used the following year?

I wouldn't have thought it the best idea to re-use a tent from a festival!

[lifted*fox]

15 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

Would it be worth organisers charging more for tickets to provide tents etc; that way potentially reducing waste if they can be re-used the following year?

 

ideally people could just not be cvnts and take their shit home with them.

 

i've been in some right ****ing states at the end of weekend festivals, barely able to see-straight but I've still managed to pack a tent away and put my rubbish in the bin.

 

the problem is more that you can pick up a cheap tent for under £100 these days and people who can afford festival tickets are the same type of people who can happily leave a shit tent behind and buy a new one next year.

 

throw-away culture. 

[Kopfkino]

This is interesting https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2019/jul/19/carbon-calculator-how-taking-one-flight-emits-as-much-as-many-people-do-in-a-year

 

Solving the air travel problem is a real conundrum. Obviously everyone knows its a big polluter and its emissions probably cause more damage than those that ground level but coming up with a reasonable solution is tough. There was the little electric aircraft at Paris but I imagine alternate energy sources for commercial flying is a way off. 

[leicsmac]

3 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

Meanwhile, the global population keeps on growing... Africa and Asia, I'm looking at you in particular.

 

We all know what that means in terms of demand for water, food and shelter. But instead of talking about causes, the public debate too often circles around the effects and becomes populist and haphazardous.

 

...wait, I thought that human activity had nothing or next to nothing to do with the current average temperature increases (assuming those increases are actually a long term concern at all, because, you know, Medieval Warm period blah blah blah), right? So hard to keep track now...

 

In any case, I've said this before but IMO it's a matter of supreme irrelevance at this stage as to the human or "natural" element of the average temperature increase anyway - the effects will be the same based of degree of temperature increase whether or not humans actually have anything to do with it.

 

And a wonderfully Malthusian thought displayed there - as with all the Malthusian lines, I'm agog to hear what the solution is. So...what is the solution if that is indeed the problem?

 

This is what I mean about needless politicisation of science - as if the Earth really cares just which group of people in whatever nation state gave it enough emissions and will focus the consequences of those emissions on them and them alone. No...the Earth doesn't care, never has, and the stresses on food and potable water (among other things), if and when they come, while initially being limited to certain parts of the world, will end up being most...democratic. Apportioning blame (even if accurate) is simply hot air if the ones spouting the hot air (both metaphorical and literal) continue to go for the status quo. In short, nature doesn't give a toss about the petty political games of apes in sharper suits - and as such it's a bit saft to suggest the actual issue is political anyway - outside those wishing to use it as a means to further power for themselves, which is stupid no matter what particular ideology they follow.

 

As for actual, tangible solutions:

 

https://www.drawdown.org/solutions

 

1 hour ago, davieG said:

Perhaps the Extinction Rebellion and other Climate Change protests groups should give these open air Festivals some attention

 

Video shows shocking number of tents left behind at Download festival

Other equipment and unopened alcohol also littered the site

 

This is the shocking amount of rubbish left behind after Download Festival.

One festivalgoer was so taken aback by the huge amount of camping equipment left behind he captured it on video.

Artist Mike Gutteridge was among the very last to leave the Castle Donington site after the music festival last month and the sight of abandoned items inspired him to get out his phone, to film a video, and add a poem he wrote as a soundtrack.

The video, which has had more than 500 views on YouTube, features dozens of tents – some of them that seem to have been partly taken down, but then abandoned – as well as sleeping bags, ground sheets, chairs, full cans of alcohol,

Mike, 26, who is a graphic artist and lives in Berkshire, said: “I’ve been going to festivals for years and years and I’ve never really been hit by this before

 

“On the Monday, when we packed up and left Download, I was pretty much the last to leave the site at midday.

“I took the video because I couldn’t believe how many people couldn’t take the time to pack up things and take them home with them.

“There were hundreds of tents as well as camp chairs and left over alcohol and all sorts of other things.

“It doesn’t really make sense to me – people pay all this money for their gear and just abandon it.

“It would be understandable if it was broken beyond repair but it was all perfectly good gear.

 

“It’s not the festival organisers’ fault people abandon all their stuff. It’s such a waste and it probably ends up being thrown into landfill. It’s happening at other festivals all over, every year.

“We all need to start doing our bit to stop this.”

They could, as every little bit helps and making people more aware of being more responsible about such things can only be a good thing - but I wouldn't say in terms of magnitude that it's the highest of priority problems right now.

 

56 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

This is interesting https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2019/jul/19/carbon-calculator-how-taking-one-flight-emits-as-much-as-many-people-do-in-a-year

 

Solving the air travel problem is a real conundrum. Obviously everyone knows its a big polluter and its emissions probably cause more damage than those that ground level but coming up with a reasonable solution is tough. There was the little electric aircraft at Paris but I imagine alternate energy sources for commercial flying is a way off. 

Airlines are certainly putting in effort to make their planes more fuel-efficient as it hurts their bottom line, but yes - better solutions are needed for both that and also the cargo ship industry which is a massive emitter in its own right.

[leicsmac]

6 hours ago, Collymore said:

"Nine of the 10 hottest Junes on its 1880-2019 record have occurred in the past nine years, it said. Last month beat June 2016 to be named the hottest"

 

I used to be a bit sceptical of climate change but this stat blows any argument out of the water.

 

The Earth would go through natural warming and cooling cycles with out any human activity but not as quickly as that I'd imagine, unless some super volcano errupted of course... 

It's not a 100% slam dunk certainty - not without the cycle continuing for longer - but there is not much reason to suspect that the trend will go anywhere but up, particularly in the short term.

 

Human civilisation needs to be ready for the effects of that.

[The Fox Covert]

5 hours ago, UniFox21 said:

Would it be worth organisers charging more for tickets to provide tents etc; that way potentially reducing waste if they can be re-used the following year?

Nope. Glastonbury already charges enough. There are now a number of outfits outside the fence which operate independently of the festival which already provide this service. And charge considerably more for the ticket plus tent package. Buying a load of tents and getting a squad of people to put them up then take them down again after the festival doesn't come cheap. I don't know whether the same applies at other large festivals but I would imagine so.

I would favour rewarding people who do take their tents and camping gear home.  Give the punters a ticket to stick on their tent which is sent with their festival ticket. Attach it to the tent. When you leave stewards scan the ticket and the electronic wristband issued at the gate in exchange for the ticket. If the numbers on the ticket and wristband correspond the stewards press another button on their reader is which confirms the ticket holder has been a good boy / girl and they get higher priority in the scrum for tickets the following year.

This might also reduce theft of tents, which is also a significant problem.

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-49052360

 

Of course it's lies, Mr Bullshitaro. Of course.

[MC Prussian]

21 hours ago, leicsmac said:

...wait, I thought that human activity had nothing or next to nothing to do with the current average temperature increases (assuming those increases are actually a long term concern at all, because, you know, Medieval Warm period blah blah blah), right? So hard to keep track now...

 

In any case, I've said this before but IMO it's a matter of supreme irrelevance at this stage as to the human or "natural" element of the average temperature increase anyway - the effects will be the same based of degree of temperature increase whether or not humans actually have anything to do with it.

 

And a wonderfully Malthusian thought displayed there - as with all the Malthusian lines, I'm agog to hear what the solution is. So...what is the solution if that is indeed the problem?

 

This is what I mean about needless politicisation of science - as if the Earth really cares just which group of people in whatever nation state gave it enough emissions and will focus the consequences of those emissions on them and them alone. No...the Earth doesn't care, never has, and the stresses on food and potable water (among other things), if and when they come, while initially being limited to certain parts of the world, will end up being most...democratic. Apportioning blame (even if accurate) is simply hot air if the ones spouting the hot air (both metaphorical and literal) continue to go for the status quo. In short, nature doesn't give a toss about the petty political games of apes in sharper suits - and as such it's a bit saft to suggest the actual issue is political anyway - outside those wishing to use it as a means to further power for themselves, which is stupid no matter what particular ideology they follow.

 

As for actual, tangible solutions:

 

https://www.drawdown.org/solutions

I never said that human activity had "nothing or next to nothing to do" with global warming, now you're putting words in my mouth.

I'm questioning the extent of that influence - and the climate change research, the IPCC data available claiming to portray the truth, their methods and the factors coming into play for measuring increase in temperatures.

 

Surely you can acknowledge that it does no good that the global population, in Asia and Africa in particular, has increased massively in just the past 50 years? It has doubled from over 3 billion to now close to 8 billion! This development thus puts much strain on resources, agriculture, soil, etc.

I'm not convinced by climate change activists such as Greta Thunberg, who do nothing but incite division in my eyes (in the sense of "lots of talk, no action"), and that in (European) countries which are already very active in reducing carbon dioxide emissions.

The issue is that these emissions know no boundaries, they don't stop at the border. It's a global movement, so every country needs to chip in. And right now, it's China and India especially, who are the biggest polluters on this planet, plus some of the African states ruining their own rivers.

 

So I am asking myself: Why do people such as Greta Thunberg not put more effort in protesting on location in China or India, or Nigeria or Egypt? I find it hypocritical. Over here in Europe, they are in fact preaching to the choir.

 

Global warming and climate change happen. No doubt about it. Now it's up to us to figure out how we can use the recent increase in temperatures to our own advantage, but for that we need way better and more efficient solar energy technology. Wind turbines are a laughing matter, they are a sore sight in the landscape and are no way efficient enough. Water energy? I'd welcome technological advances there, too. Or fuel cell technology.

Edited 20 July 2019 by MC Prussian

[leicsmac]

50 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

I never said that human activity had "nothing or next to nothing to do" with global warming, now you're putting words in my mouth.

I'm questioning the extent of that influence - and the climate change research, the IPCC data available claiming to portray the truth, their methods and the factors coming into play for measuring increase in temperatures.

 

Surely you can acknowledge that it does no good that the global population, in Asia and Africa in particular, has increased massively in just the past 50 years? It has doubled from over 3 billion to now close to 8 billion! This development thus puts much strain on resources, agriculture, soil, etc.

I'm not convinced by climate change activists such as Greta Thunberg, who do nothing but incite division in my eyes (in the sense of "lots of talk, no action"), and that in (European) countries which are already very active in reducing carbon dioxide emissions.

The issue is that these emissions know no boundaries, they don't stop at the border. It's a global movement, so every country needs to chip in. And right now, it's China and India especially, who are the biggest polluters on this planet, plus some of the African states ruining their own rivers.

 

So I am asking myself: Why do people such as Greta Thunberg not put more effort in protesting on location in China or India, or Nigeria or Egypt? I find it hypocritical. Over here in Europe, they are in fact preaching to the choir.

 

Global warming and climate change happen. No doubt about it. Now it's up to us to figure out how we can use the recent increase in temperatures to our own advantage, but for that we need way better and more efficient solar energy technology. Wind turbines are a laughing matter, they are a sore sight in the landscape and are no way efficient enough. Water energy? I'd welcome technological advances there, too. Or fuel cell technology.

I was being somewhat facetious, but you're absolutely sure you haven't expressed that sentiment (though probably not in those exact words) before on here...as in totally certain? As certain of that as you are of the rest of your words here? If you really believe that the extent of human influence is open to debate, then it follows that the number of humans on the planet - no matter what nation - might not actually mean that much after all.

 

My viewpoint on population increase is irrelevant - we're talking about your stance on it right now. I'd like to ask again; what do you propose as a direct solution if you believe that to be a problem?

 

All of that said, again it's time to think solutions, yes.

 

I'd agree that all of the major nations need to chip in and all of them - not just China and India - are lacking in that regard in terms of policy right now. The only nations really taking it seriously are the major European nations, who sadly make up only a minimal part of the total emissions anyway, as I believe you have said. I agree that sometimes protests and action are happening in the wrong places, but should the excrement ever hit the fan it will be the responsibility of those who actually had power at the time - and I don't see why those protests are being used often as a convenient excuse to ignore the science.

 

Solar PV arrays are the best of renewable tech and they are getting more efficient fast, but I wouldn't rule out offshore wind as an option too. Hydro is a good shout depending on location...but at the end of the day I'm still thinking that Gen III and IV fission have their part to play in all this too, particularly for large-scale generation. As temperatures go up, demand is going to go up - for energy, food, water, everything - and humanity needs to be ready for that. Lessening our reliance on oil, gas and coal power makes sense for a variety of reasons, and I'm glad you're thinking on that too.

[leicsmac]

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/07/american-kids-would-much-rather-be-youtubers-than-astronauts/

 

Well, this is depressing.

[davieG]

14 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/07/american-kids-would-much-rather-be-youtubers-than-astronauts/

 

Well, this is depressing.

Step up from Gang Member.

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, davieG said:

Step up from Gang Member.

TBF at least gang members help keep other people, viz.the police force, in work as well as contributing to keeping the money going round. 

[The Bear]

99% of YouTubers are *****. 

A bit less on Instagrammers, because there are some good causes and nice people out there, but the majority are still self entitled twats. 

 

Anyone that calls themselves "an influencer" needs to be euthanised for the good of the species. 

[SpacedX]

11 minutes ago, The Bear said:

99% of YouTubers are *****. 

A bit less on Instagrammers, because there are some good causes and nice people out there, but the majority are still self entitled twats. 

 

Anyone that calls themselves "an influencer" needs to be euthanised for the good of the species. 

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/07/american-kids-would-much-rather-be-youtubers-than-astronauts/

[leicsmac]

28 minutes ago, Line-X said:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/07/american-kids-would-much-rather-be-youtubers-than-astronauts/

Ummm...see above.