Technology, Science and the Environment.

[yorkie1999]

23 minutes ago, The Bear said:

And it's going to package up the samples it collects into tubes, then there'll be a future mission to land, collect them, lift off again and bring them back to Earth! 

Hmm,  viruses from Mars. 

[The Bear]

2 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Hmm,  viruses from Mars. 

A million to one they say. 

[leicsmac]

6 hours ago, Buce said:

 

Sure, I see the value of it from that perspective and also the pursuit of knowledge for its own sake. But as an undertaking, those are the limits of its usefulness. It would be fascinating to know if microbial life existed there millions of years ago, but that knowledge doesn't really impact on anythingn in any real sense. It would be great for the philosophers and the exobiologists but would be nothing to humanity as a whole.

 

Were we solely talking about this particular mission, this would be a fair point. However I think that what is going on here is merely one part of a process, a stepping stone to much more down the line, and that is what I am highlighting the importance of. I'll go into a bit more detail on that below.

 

6 hours ago, Buce said:

 

I'm not sure what your vision of 'long term survival of humanity' looks like, but I can take a guess given the Laws of Physics.

 

The idea that we could somehow colonise another Earth-type planet in a different star system is pure science fiction: there will be no generational ships, no cryogenics or faster-than light drives. We are prisoners of the Solar System, the Inner Solar System for all practical purposes. Since you know that already, the only remaining option to achieve your aims would be a Lunar or Mars colony.

Since both are extremely hostile to human survival, the few hundred colonists would presumably live within some hermetically-sealed, self-sustaining prison. What would be desirable about that? Why is the idea of a handful of people continuing humanity's existence in the event of planetary disaster so important to you?

Firstly agreeing that we are, at least for the time being, confined to the Solar System, I've got two answers here, too.

 

The first is that the advancement of space tech doesn't just defend against future threats by having humans colonise other places - it also allows us, in some cases, to identify and hopefully address them before they become something we cannot stop. To use the obvious example, if there's an asteroid on its way to give us a really bad day, well, we could do with firstly knowing it's out there and coming for us at all and secondly having the tech standing by in order to sort it out rather than having to build something up from scratch with time that we don't really have. Moving away from that, we can use space tech to monitor for the possibility of supervolcanic eruptions, give projections on temperature increases caused by greenhouse gases, and other things too. It's not exactly saving the world, but it is giving us timely information that we wouldn't otherwise get, that would give us a better chance of it being saved should the need arise - and so increase the chances of long-term human survival. And we've barely scratched the surface of what such tech development might be able to do in order to defend ourselves against such threats. Additionally, to expand on the point above, there are loads of spin-off techs that have resulted from spaceflight programs that have contributed to making life easier and better here in Earth.

 

The second does indeed play into the idea of human colonisation of the Moon or Mars or space habitats, and it also requires them to be self-sustaining, at least for a long time (a tough ask, but not impossible). If planetary disaster were to strike, those people would survive, and the Earth would not be off-limits to life forever - depending on the situation, they could one day return, they wouldn't be stuck away from Earth permanently. Of course, restoring any vestige of civilisation would take a bloody long time and might not happen at all, but at least the chance might exist, rather than if they were not there and there be no chance at all. Time, however, is something we have - barring extinction-level events that crop up every so often, Earth is likely going to remain habitable by complex for the next 500-700 million years (until the Sun's increasing luminosity starts playing too much havoc). That is about the same length of time that complex life has existed on Earth at all, and it is somewhere around 10 million human lifetimes. That's why I don't like saying something can't or won't be done - over a long enough timescale, a lot can happen. A hundred years ago the idea of any kind of flight was seen as a ludicrously dangerous enterprise left only to the bravest mavericks, after all. Who knows where we'll be in a thousand years time, let alone more than that?

 

Provided, of course that we can defend ourselves against the threats that come our way while it all happens.

 

 

[Buce]

5 hours ago, leicsmac said:

Were we solely talking about this particular mission, this would be a fair point. However I think that what is going on here is merely one part of a process, a stepping stone to much more down the line, and that is what I am highlighting the importance of. I'll go into a bit more detail on that below.

 

Firstly agreeing that we are, at least for the time being, confined to the Solar System, I've got two answers here, too.

 

At least for the time being?

 

What theoretical advancment in technology/ understanding of physics do you suggest might make interstellar travel possible?

 

5 hours ago, leicsmac said:

 

The second does indeed play into the idea of human colonisation of the Moon or Mars or space habitats, and it also requires them to be self-sustaining, at least for a long time (a tough ask, but not impossible). If planetary disaster were to strike, those people would survive, and the Earth would not be off-limits to life forever - depending on the situation, they could one day return, they wouldn't be stuck away from Earth permanently. Of course, restoring any vestige of civilisation would take a bloody long time and might not happen at all, but at least the chance might exist, rather than if they were not there and there be no chance at all. Time, however, is something we have - barring extinction-level events that crop up every so often, Earth is likely going to remain habitable by complex for the next 500-700 million years (until the Sun's increasing luminosity starts playing too much havoc). That is about the same length of time that complex life has existed on Earth at all, and it is somewhere around 10 million human lifetimes. That's why I don't like saying something can't or won't be done - over a long enough timescale, a lot can happen. A hundred years ago the idea of any kind of flight was seen as a ludicrously dangerous enterprise left only to the bravest mavericks, after all. Who knows where we'll be in a thousand years time, let alone more than that?

 

Provided, of course that we can defend ourselves against the threats that come our way while it all happens.

 

 

 

So, in short, you see off-world colonies as a sort of Noah's Ark of humanity? That's an interesting concept, thanks.

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Buce said:

 

At least for the time being?

 

What theoretical advancment in technology/ understanding of physics do you suggest might make interstellar travel possible?

 

 

So, in short, you see off-world colonies as a sort of Noah's Ark of humanity? That's an interesting concept, thanks.

Right now there are a plethora of ideas for either faster than light travel, or for extending the human lifespan. Of course, right now, all of these ideas are very much pie-in-the-sky science fiction, but seeing that we got from powered flight to a man on the Moon in around 65 years, I'm not going to assume about what humanity might do in the next 650. And that is a blink of an eye in terms of geological timescales.

 

Of course, Einstein could well be right, there is absolutely no way around relativity whatsoever and we are stuck in our Solar System. But, as long as there is enough time, I'm not going to discount even apparently outlandish ideas out of hand, because such ideas have been realised so many times before.

 

WRT the second paragraph, for lack of a better term, yeah - you could say that. It's an insurance policy for humanity either way.

 

 

[The Bear]

Who knows what physics we will come up with in just 1000 years never mind longer. Dark matter and energy will surely reveal more secrets about the universe once we start to understand or even manipulate them. 

Edited 20 February 2021 by The Bear

[leicsmac]

51 minutes ago, The Bear said:

Who knows what physics we will come up with in just 1000 years never mind longer. Dark matter and energy will surely reveal more secrets about the universe once we start to understand or even manipulate them. 

Being able to manipulate gravity as a force will be the key thing, if we can IMO.

[Bellend Sebastian]

Well at least the government will help us...oh no, wait

 

https://www.tortoisemedia.com/2021/02/19/rachael-revesz-no-idle-matter/

[Lcfc82]

Not sure if this is the right place for this but can anybody recommend any decent outdoor security cameras that you can link up to your phone ?

Ive tried the hive one but sent it back as it was getting triggered by literally anything.

[Izzy]

Awesome stuff 

 

Perseverance: Watch moment rover lands on Mars

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/science-environment-56159376

[Strokes]

On 20/02/2021 at 21:56, Lcfc82 said:

Not sure if this is the right place for this but can anybody recommend any decent outdoor security cameras that you can link up to your phone ?

Ive tried the hive one but sent it back as it was getting triggered by literally anything.

Yeah there are loads, the best ones are wired to central NVR/DVR.

What are your requirements/budget etc?

[Lcfc82]

It’s just for a bit of security on the house, only need a couple of cameras. One to look over the drive and one on the side. Don’t really want to spend anymore than £300 really. 
just after something that’s reliable, decent quality image and easy to use 

[Strokes]

3 minutes ago, Lcfc82 said:

It’s just for a bit of security on the house, only need a couple of cameras. One to look over the drive and one on the side. Don’t really want to spend anymore than £300 really. 
just after something that’s reliable, decent quality image and easy to use 

I think if you upped your budget a little you could get exactly that, pay cheap, pay twice.

I’d go for uniview, IP colorhunter. I think you could get 2 cameras and an 4ch NVR for about £480.

The trouble with wireless cameras is they are defeatable, you only need a jammer and they can’t connect to the cloud. Also the provider will most likely charge a subscription to use the cloud, if they don’t now, they will in the future.

 

[Lcfc82]

4 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I think if you upped your budget a little you could get exactly that, pay cheap, pay twice.

I’d go for uniview, IP colorhunter. I think you could get 2 cameras and an 4ch NVR for about £480.

The trouble with wireless cameras is they are defeatable, you only need a jammer and they can’t connect to the cloud. Also the provider will most likely charge a subscription to use the cloud, if they don’t now, they will in the future.

 

Thanks for that, are Hikvision any good as a brand ? Someone I know was trying to get me to buy them 

[Strokes]

4 minutes ago, Lcfc82 said:

Thanks for that, are Hikvision any good as a brand ? Someone I know was trying to get me to buy them 

Yeah, I do sell HikVision. They are a bit more expensive than Uniview for IP but their analog range is great value.

I don’t like their after sales support mind and the constant firmware updates. If you are going to consider HIK, I’d recommend taking a look at Dahua first.

Better quality, better support, similar price.

Edited 22 February 2021 by Strokes

[davieG]

 

The link hopefully takes you to a FB where you can drag your mouse around the image - https://www.facebook.com/360creator/

 

I don't know how or if you can copy and past the original FB post.

[Wymsey]

3 hours ago, davieG said:

 

The link hopefully takes you to a FB where you can drag your mouse around the image - https://www.facebook.com/360creator/

 

I don't know how or if you can copy and past the original FB post.

Am not really one into the facts of Space/The Universe, but projects like this make me feel impressed that humans can do such things - going into another planet, exploring the surroundings and analysing things on it and send clear images back.

[leicsmac]

33 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

Am not really one into the facts of Space/The Universe, but projects like this make me feel impressed that humans can do such things - going into another planet, exploring the surroundings and analysing things on it and send clear images back.

And we've barely scratched the surface, too.

 

The stars await us.

[TommyJ]

2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

And we've barely scratched the surface, too.

 

The stars await us.

Yet the places where humanity can land are called planets. Sometimes satellites of the planets. If we could actually plant research equipment on a star, it would greatly expand our knowledge of the universe. Such durable materials would also propel us forward in space travel.

[foxile5]

7 hours ago, davieG said:

 

The link hopefully takes you to a FB where you can drag your mouse around the image - https://www.facebook.com/360creator/

 

I don't know how or if you can copy and past the original FB post.

Is that an exact image or one of those where they take a source image and add in the details - in this instance the milky way.

[davieG]

43 minutes ago, foxile5 said:

Is that an exact image or one of those where they take a source image and add in the details - in this instance the milky way.

If you click on the link you'll see the source it purports to be from the Rover which you can manoeuvre. 

[Buce]

21 minutes ago, davieG said:

If you click on the link you'll see the source it purports to be from the Rover which you can manoeuvre. 

 

Just don't tell the wife...

 

[FoxesDeb]

Plastic Sea: Almeria's environmental and humanitarian disaster - Olive Press News Spain (theolivepress.es)

 

This is pretty shocking. It's about 90 minutes from me and I knew it existed, you can't miss it on Google maps. But I didn't realise people actually lived in the plastic shelters until they had a fire there that made the news here a couple of days ago. I naively thought it was just greenhouses, which is bad enough, they are prolific along the coast here, just didn't know people lived in them too, mainly migrants from north Africa.

 

 

[TommyJ]

Do you think modern space companies can offer something new and interesting? Could something innovative emerge? Are there any new companies that you like? I would like to learn something new. Maybe about the British space companies ... 

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, TommyJ said:

Do you think modern space companies can offer something new and interesting? Could something innovative emerge? Are there any new companies that you like? I would like to learn something new. Maybe about the British space companies ... 

I think the way companies like SpaceX have changed the industry in a pretty short space of time has been fairly revolutionary tbh. The problem is that money talks, and the reason they've been able to do that is because Musk was able to use a big chunk of his PayPal wedge to get them started up properly.

 

That is a problem for most of the British companies, sadly - Reaction Engines, for instance, is doing some fantastic stuff with rocket tech but because cash is thin they're doing it really, really slowly.