The Claude Puel Era - what will he bring?

[Babylon]

We've got the biggest budget outside the big 7 teams and West Ham. Whether it's by playing kick and rush football or by playing a bit of football we have the resources to actually decide how we want to go about it, we're not Burnley. 

 

We became too easy to play against sticking with the same old same old. Sit back, give us the ball and we were utterly clueless. I'm all for a manager wanting to make us more comfortable on the ball so that we don't look utterly clueless with it. If they are smart they'll also keep the counter attacking element in the team as well as it's another string to our bow. 

 

No matter how we play we're unlikely to break the top 6 unless it's a freak season as money dictates position most of the time. So 7th and 8th place is achievable with any style. 

[NotTheMarketLeader]

50 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

About those 3 games we played "the leicester way" and won impressively.

Can we really objectively say that that was the case?

Man City as everyone saw underestimated us and set up to fail. Liverpool are just Liverpool and sometimes like to give it away for free, also, it was the reaction to the media with all the snakes bollocks, and Seville home was an historical game for us, everyone emotional and pumped up and rose to the occasion.

 

Only Man City was a normal game if you like, as in, one without exceptional circumstance surrounding it, and they just did exactly what a team shouldnt do against us. 

 

I dont think we can just say that those games we did something tactically that we didnt opt to do in all other games last season. 

Well in answer to your last sentence we can, because that’s what happened.

 

The high tempo high press doesn’t have to stop just because teams drop back. In fact that assists the pressing team as they have gained more ground and win the ball back further in the opposing team’s half! 

 

We simply stopped playing with the same tempo, pressing and intensity and we left with no style whatsoever as a result.

 

Atletico played the counter attack for season after season, and were successful season after season, operating on a fraction of the budget of the big two and have which would counter the argument that it can’t contiue to be done and work successfully.

 

The management decided to move away from that and THAT has failed miserably.

Edited 26 November 2017 by NotTheMarketLeader

[NotTheMarketLeader]

2 minutes ago, Babylon said:

We've got the biggest budget outside the big 7 teams and West Ham. Whether it's by playing kick and rush football or by playing a bit of football we have the resources to actually decide how we want to go about it, we're not Burnley. 

 

We became too easy to play against sticking with the same old same old. Sit back, give us the ball and we were utterly clueless. I'm all for a manager wanting to make us more comfortable on the ball so that we don't look utterly clueless with it. If they are smart they'll also keep the counter attacking element in the team as well as it's another string to our bow. 

 

No matter how we play we're unlikely to break the top 6 unless it's a freak season as money dictates position most of the time. So 7th and 8th place is achievable with any style. 

That’s what I’ve said.

 

Theres virtually no way we can ever do any better than 7th or 8th with a possession based approach.

 

 

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

32 minutes ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

Well in answer to your last sentence we can, because that’s what happened.

 

The high tempo high press doesn’t have to stop just because teams drop back. In fact that assists the pressing team as they have gained more ground and win the ball back further in the opposing team’s half! 

 

We simply stopped playing with the same tempo, pressing and intensity and we left with no style whatsoever as a result.

 

Atletico played the counter attack for season after season, and were successful season after season, operating on a fraction of the budget of the big two and have which would counter the argument that it can’t contiue to be done and work successfully.

 

The management decided to move away from that and THAT has failed miserably.

So you are saying, definitively, that the management decided to play in the title winning manner for 3 games and sacked off the tactic for every other match? 

 

Those matches we maybe played with a higher tempo because of the occasion, barring Man City, which every man and his dog know was a gift opposition for us at that time.

 

Its not tactics. Those 3 games arent isolated decisions from the management to play a certain way. Thats as good as saying they chose to be below that level of performance in all other games. If those games were the result of a conscious decision, they'd simply have said "do that again lads".

 

I suppose the Ranieri and Shakespeare just got bored of winning and sick of employment?

 

The issues with the team's performance cant be bundled into, they need to press more, they need to up the tempo. Its too simple and reductive. We've got loads of issues, squad cohesion and individuals for example

 

Edited 26 November 2017 by AlloverthefloorYesNdidi

[Babylon]

25 minutes ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

That’s what I’ve said.

 

Theres virtually no way we can ever do any better than 7th or 8th with a possession based approach.

 

 

There is little chance we'll ever do better with our old style as well. It was a one off.

[ZeGuy]

35 minutes ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

That’s what I’ve said.

 

Theres virtually no way we can ever do any better than 7th or 8th with a possession based approach.

 

 

Because you think we could challenge for the title again if we play the old way?

[Steve Agnew]

Agree with Kitchandro. You have to do something different (play a different style of football) to beat the top teams. It's pointless trying to play possession football unless we are going to outspend the top clubs and buy better quality. Puel's style is low tempo and flat. He doesn't get the best out of a squad which was put together to run hard, run fast and outwork the opposition.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

Vardy has arguably benefited the most from our swift counter attacking high tempo style. He made a comment that could be interpreted as slightly disparaging. Said Puel still wants him to play on the shoulder, but is trying to get the team to move the ball better through the field rather than just whack it and Vardy "get on his bike" after the ball, as he put it. 

Sounded like he's getting sick of hoofball and welcoming a change of style. 

I dont think becoming better in possession means we have to lose the quality of pressing or fast counter attacks. Just means we get another dimension which will aid us to do those other things as well.

Negativity about Puel is very premature.

 

Edited 26 November 2017 by AlloverthefloorYesNdidi

[Babylon]

5 hours ago, Steve Agnew said:

Agree with Kitchandro. You have to do something different (play a different style of football) to beat the top teams. It's pointless trying to play possession football unless we are going to outspend the top clubs and buy better quality. Puel's style is low tempo and flat. He doesn't get the best out of a squad which was put together to run hard, run fast and outwork the opposition.

We've played one "top team" under him, the very best one at that and we played exactly how most teams with inferior squads play against bigger and better teams, by keeping it tight.

 

We aren't going to compete with those teams regularly, end of story. Doesn't matter what style of play we have, they are the best teams because they beat mostly all the others.

 

The football that won the league wasn't sustainable, it was great and caught people cold but teams clearly altered their style and we started to find it harder and harder. 

 

Those players are all now aging and many due to be replaced, if the manager wants a more passing style then fine. We don't need to outpass the top 6, just the rest... and that's possible when you have the budget we do.

[WigstonWanderer]

5 hours ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

Vardy has arguably benefited the most from our swift counter attacking high tempo style. He made a comment that could be interpreted as slightly disparaging. Said Puel still wants him to play on the shoulder, but is trying to get the team to move the ball better through the field rather than just whack it and Vardy "get on his bike" after the ball, as he put it. 

Sounded like he's getting sick of hoofball and welcoming a change of style. 

I dont think becoming better in possession means we have to lose the quality of pressing or fast counter attacks. Just means we get another dimension which will aid us to do those other things as well.

Negativity about Puel is very premature.

 

The problem as I see it with Puel is that we are indeed losing the quality of passing and fast counter attacks.

 

Early days though.

[StriderHiryu]

14 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

The problem as I see it with Puel is that we are indeed losing the quality of passing and fast counter attacks.

 

Early days though.

I think that is definitely a fear a lot of us have. That we go too far the other way in terms of our style. 

 

For me rather than saying one style is better or worse than another, my ideal LCFC would be one that plays high tempo pressing but that is also comfortable on the ball. I don’t expect to see us being a tiki-taka team and don’t think it would be much fun to watch! But after winning the title a number of teams sat deep against us to nullify our counter attack and we lacked the imagination or composure to adjust. We also dropped off our energy levels, but perhaps that was inevitable when you play Champions League and Premier League matches in the same week. 

 

In an ideal world it would be great if we can play the deadly high tempo press / counter attack against the teams with wealthy owners but out pass and overwhelm the WBA’s and Burnley’s in the league who will happily sit back against us. 

 

I made this thread for a bit of banter between us fans and to comment on what the new gaffer brings to the club. So far the evidence is clear - more of a possession based game. I think it’s interesting to see how divisive this change is just 4 games into his reign, and it maybe shouldn’t be too much of a surprise. There’s certainly a lot of merit in those that say we’ll never match the wealthier teams playing this way.

 

But maybe the idea is that it consolidates our position as “best of the rest” and once we’ve ticked that box, the owners invest more to challenge for the next level?

[Gerard]

On 25/11/2017 at 10:37, StriderHiryu said:

Interesting to see what others think in this thread, he's definitely divisive as a manager. If you compare him to Shakespeare results wise I'd say he's done about the same, but he has definitely introduced possesion based football. The days of going full throttle from the start of a game are clearly over and I do think it's going to be hard to win some of our fans over, especially at home.

 

Personally I think there is a lot to admire. I know we won the league playing a counter attacking 442 / 4411 but I don't think that is sustainable long term. To be a consistent top team in the league, you have to be able to dominate games and break other teams down. Playing that way I believe we will start off by doing worse against the top 6 teams (who do the same thing but are better at it), but better against other teams. If I look at our performances versus Stoke and West Ham, I would say it's the first time in LCFC Premier League history that I can remember us going away and dominating the game for large periods, even if results are the same / slightly worse. Playing this way is not an overnight job, even Pochetino from Spurs took a while before Spurs really clicked. For the long term benefit of the club, I feel he is doing the right thing.

 

That said I have to be critical of a few things.

- We've been dire in every second half so far under Puel. Is it instructions from the manager? You have to ask because first halves versus Everton, Stoke and West Ham we've been great, but it peters out so quickly in the second.

- Substitutes. They've made no impact in any of the 4 games we've played so far. That's concerning to say the least.

- Mahrez. Giving him a free role could be a genius move. He's such a fantastic technical player that becoming the "main man" could be huge for Leicester. But he's sulking even more than before now and way more selfish. Seriously Puel needs to tell him in French to pass the god damn ball in the final third!

 

Brilliant post and it saves me writing something similar.

 

There is a direct correlation between possession and success. I know we won a title whilst conceding possession but examples are few and far between. All the best teams in history kept the ball really well.

 

I'm really impressed by Puel so far, he's getting the players to play his way. You just have to look at Simpson's positioning since he took over and he gets much further forward than he ever did here. He's getting the players to play his way and those who can't cut it will be out.

[Gerard]

On 25/11/2017 at 16:36, m4DD0gg said:

Yes I said astute business men. They bought out our debt and serviced it noand made a **** tonne of money through a little luck...well actually a lot of luck. 

 

That has nothing to do with the layer of management that sits between them and the playing side which is rotten to the core and until they see past this cultural loyalty then Leicester City are going no where. 

 

 

I think Puel is a great appointment. Who should we have brought in?

[Gerard]

16 hours ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Precisely!

 

We will never be able to compete with the top 6 trying to play them at their own game. They simply have too much resources so their players will always have better quality for this type of football.

 

We need to do what we do, but do it better. Ranieri proved it was possible. 

 

If you think we can compete with the mega clubs over the long term then you're dreaming. Consistent top six for us is unrealistic.

[brucey]

From what I can see from the training pics and snippets of training videos, he's replaced the reaction speed drills with head tennis. Replacing fluency of fast counters with (attempted) one touch passing. I hope we don't lose that ability for fast counters, it's the one thing we're still decent at for now.

Edited 27 November 2017 by brucey

[bpfox]

WELL I THINK SINCE THE NEW MANAGER HAS COME IN WE HAVE BEEN DEFENSIVELY VERY POOR. and that last game was a shocker we could not hold onto the ball, we were great passing it back and across the back but going forward we were terrible, most teams in the top3 tiers move the ball better than we do.this really needs to be fixed all with a stronger all round defence. 

[hackenbacker]

who else thinks that this is as good as it's going to get?

 

For the rest of the season we might have a few good wins that lift the spirits but we are likely to have more poor games.

 

Mid-table mediocrity is our outcome  me thinks and looking ahead to Silva playing, a new RB/LB maybe, return of Huth etc etc...... well they will just be improvements around the edges.

 

Am i being too negative or should i expect a different LCFC come January?  What am really saying is should i just accept this reality and get on with supporting my team?  

[TheMightySystem]

Just hope most people aren't too hasty in wanting rid of Puel (Although it has sadly already started after 4 games). Managers need time to get a team playing how they want and need a few transfer windows to bring in players to suit their style. Look at Guardiola, people (myself included) wrote him off last year, but now that he has been able to bring in the players he wants at fullback and has had a whole season to get his ideas through we are seeing the best attacking football in the league. Im not saying that by giving Puel a season we will be winning the league or up in the top 4 but unless we look like we are going down he should get the whole year and a quater of next season to try and put his stamp on the team and get them playing how he wants them to. The worst thing to do would be to get rid while we are halfway through transition, leaving the next manager with a team that might not be fit for possession football or counter attacking football. Patience is required and I hope most fans can give him that instead of blaming him for his style not working as well as it could as he hasn't been able to bring in his own players and has laughably bad options in reserve, I mean for god sake our backup wing option on Friday (We didn't even have a second wtf) was Chilwell. A 20 year old LB is our backup Winger. WTF is wrong with our transfer dealing for the past few windows.

[NotTheMarketLeader]

14 hours ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

So you are saying, definitively, that the management decided to play in the title winning manner for 3 games and sacked off the tactic for every other match? 

 

Those matches we maybe played with a higher tempo because of the occasion, barring Man City, which every man and his dog know was a gift opposition for us at that time.

 

Its not tactics. Those 3 games arent isolated decisions from the management to play a certain way. Thats as good as saying they chose to be below that level of performance in all other games. If those games were the result of a conscious decision, they'd simply have said "do that again lads".

 

I suppose the Ranieri and Shakespeare just got bored of winning and sick of employment?

 

The issues with the team's performance cant be bundled into, they need to press more, they need to up the tempo. Its too simple and reductive. We've got loads of issues, squad cohesion and individuals for example

 

Yes Ranieri did choose to change that style after we won the league.

 

He said so ffs.

[NotTheMarketLeader]

14 hours ago, Babylon said:

There is little chance we'll ever do better with our old style as well. It was a one off.

I think we would have been much better placed than we were last season had we been playing the high tempo pressing game all along that’s for sure

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

4 minutes ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

Yes Ranieri did choose to change that style after we won the league.

 

He said so ffs.

But he decided to retain it against Man City?

[Babylon]

3 hours ago, bpfox said:

WELL I THINK SINCE THE NEW MANAGER HAS COME IN WE HAVE BEEN DEFENSIVELY VERY POOR. and that last game was a shocker we could not hold onto the ball, we were great passing it back and across the back but going forward we were terrible, most teams in the top3 tiers move the ball better than we do.this really needs to be fixed all with a stronger all round defence. 

Other than the Stoke away game (where he pushed the fullbacks up ridiculously high) I don't think we've been bad defensively. Only at set pieces, which has been a long standing problem for as long as I can remember now.

[Babylon]

9 hours ago, WigstonWanderer said:

The problem as I see it with Puel is that we are indeed losing the quality of passing and fast counter attacks.

 

Early days though.

Well I thought we were still trying the quick breaks against West Ham, but they ultimately failed because Mahrez and Gray were well off their game. We had no end of breaks that just fell apart through them being too greedy, laying off a poor pass or just generally getting out muscled.

[NotTheMarketLeader]

FAO ZE GUY

 

 No I don’t think that at all.

 

I do think last season we would have done a damn sight better than we did if we had employed the high tempo high press which suited the players we had in the squad, who are not capable enough on the ball to play possession football. 

Edited 27 November 2017 by NotTheMarketLeader

[NotTheMarketLeader]

2 hours ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

But he decided to retain it against Man City?

An over confident Guardiola made life easy for us, and we exploited it.

 

They played a high line, as well as us pressing them into mistakes eg, Vardys third goal.

 

It’s was us who took the game to them; we were on the front foot.Something that we failed to do in many many games last season.

 

Thats my point which you don’t seem to be grasping.

Edited 27 November 2017 by NotTheMarketLeader