Moral dilemma thread

[James.]

Here's mine.

 

I travelled in South and Central America with my wife and daughter for around 9 months between August 2016 and May 2017. During that time we rented out our 2 bedroom flat in London. We signed up to a guaranteed rent scheme with an online estate agent meaning each month the estate agent would pay us a fixed amount regardless of whether the flat was tenanted or not. We signed a 2 year agreement with a break clause that could be activated after 1 year. When we returned to the UK we activated the break clause and subsequently moved back in to our flat at the end of August this year.

 

However despite moving back in the online agent has continued to transfer the same fixed monthly rental amount and has now overpaid me by about 2.5 months rent (likely to be 3.5 months if they transfer the October rent in a few days time). As you can imagine at London rates it is not an insignificant amount of money.

 

I know full well that I should contact them but at the same time there is a little bit of me that doesn't want to (I keep writing the email and then discarding it). It is beyond shambolic that they have continued to pay me and throughout the entire time we dealt with them they came across as amateurish and unprofessional. I don't know why I should help them out when they can't even get the absolute basics right. That said this is obviously not my money.

 

Does anyone have any legal or moral guidance for me?

 

Many thanks.

[Izzy]

No leagal advice but morally I’d cancel the direct debit now so you don’t receive further payments.

 

There’s probably some legal point where you say you’ll pay the 2.5 months back if they contact you within x days. And if they don’t then it’s their tough shit and you keep it.

 

Something like that. Either way, I’d cancel the DD in case you end up owing them £000’s

[VLC86]

I may be wrong but in situations like this they will probably be legally entitled to their money back and you are probably just delaying the inevitable by not contacting them.

 

If you don't want to get in contact with them I would probably keep the cash to one side for when they do get in touch.

[daddylonglegs]

I once did a summer internship for a pretty sizeable consultancy firm. It was paid, and on my second months payslip, rather than being paid £500 for two weeks work, I was paid the full £1000.

 

I was only 18 at the time so this was an especially large amount of money. I felt a small moral obligation to pay up... but at the same time I felt a) it wasnt my fault they overpaid me and b) at a company the size of this firm £500 is a drop in the ocean.

 

So I left it. For another 30 days. And then, you guessed it, I was paid again. Another £1000. This, I imagine, would still be happening to this day if I didn't contact their payroll system. I paid back the full £1500 and felt morally good but financially... bad.

 

Legally, I dont think i HAD to pay the money back. I dont know if its different from payroll in comparison to an estate agency. If i were you, id probably just pay the cash back. You'll feel better for it. 

[James.]

There is no direct debit that I can cancel - they are just transferring the money to my bank account each month.

 

And yeah I have put it in a separate bank account so I don't start to think of it as mine. And I agree that you would think some day they will inevitably realise what they have done. That said they are that useless I wouldn't put it past them to not.

[Finnegan]

Loving this thinly veiled humble brag. 

 

Top, top work James. 

[Strokes]

I think I’d just keep transferring the money into the best interest savings account I could find until they either stopped or claimed it back. I wouldn’t feel compelled to own up, as long as I’m not spending it.

[StanSP]

keep contacting them and asking to pay it back (don't pay it until they request it). 

 

Eventually they'll ask for it back and you may be required to do so. However there may be a time in future where it gets to a point they've consistently ignored you then suddenly ask for it back - by which time you could respond to them that you don't have the money and at the time you sent the requests to pay it back, you were ignored and therefore it's at their own negligence they've lost out. 

 

Legally, I don't know if that suffices but at least if you send them e-mails or other attempted contacts now you can say that they didn't respond to them hence didn't pay them back. 

[the fox]

james, don't take advantage of them, just return the extra money.believe me, having a clear conscience is a lot better than the money

[StanSP]

also, did they definitely get receipt of the break clause being activated and can you prove that?

[Guest MattP]

Chances are they will notice the mistake eventually. 

 

I'd keep the cash and hope they don't, if you feel guilty just donate it to charity in a couple of years.

[lifted*fox]

I'd imagine you would be expected to inform them of large incorrect payments. 

 

When they realise they will obviously expect to get the money back and if it appears you've been siphoning it off (knowingly) into a separate bank account and you've not informed them it probably wouldn't look great from a legal perspective? 

 

If it was me I'd probably leave it a couple of months - get a nice little sum - ring them and tell them to stop paying you and hope that they don't ask for the amount they've already sent back.

 

They probably will though. Can't see a win for you in this situation tbh. 

 

I'm of this opinion though - we didn't get charged corkage for our wedding reception as they were supposed to retrospectively contact us with the number of bottles they'd opened and they never did. Well, that's not my problem. If you can't keep track of your finance and contact clients for payment then... well, that's an issue with your end, not me. At my company we chase our clients to ensure we get paid. I'm sure they wouldn't be queuing up money in hand if we didn't invoice them / chase them for payment. 

[Arriba Los Zorros]

You should definitely send some form of email as proof you contacted them rather than keepng schtum  in case you end up being sued.

 

If you want to increase the chances of them missing it, send it late on a Friday (today maybe!) and hope you never hear back!!

[MPH]

I think they may be entitled to their money back so even if you do not tell them, i'd keep the money to one side as it sounds like it might be quite a large amount to find in a years time if you spend it...

[James.]

34 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Loving this thinly veiled humble brag. 

 

Top, top work James. 

Which brag are you referring to? The fact I went travelling for a year, the fact I own property in London or the fact I am being given lots of money for nothing?

 

Some good ideas and suggestions, thanks guys. Although no consensus which isn't helping!

 

I did contact them a few weeks ago to ask them to confirm that the contract had ended which they duly did. It was meant as a subtle (probably too subtle) hint that they hadn't closed my account properly but they didn't take the bait. I really do think they will continue to pay me until the original contract term ends in August next year. Bonkers.

 

I had considered getting their CEO contact details and going that route. I think I know deep down I need to let them know, but when I see my little secret bank balance getting bigger each month it becomes quite hard to press send.

 

 

[VLC86]

25 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I think I’d just keep transferring the money into the best interest savings account I could find until they either stopped or claimed it back. I wouldn’t feel compelled to own up, as long as I’m not spending it.

Yeah might be able to buy a freddo with the interest.

[Strokes]

Just now, Costock_Fox said:

Yeah might be able to buy a freddo with the interest.

Interest rates are beginning to rise, so he should be able to hold on for a curly wurly.

[StanSP]

1 minute ago, James. said:

Which brag are you referring to? The fact I went travelling for a year, the fact I own property in London or the fact I am being given lots of money for nothing?

 

Some good ideas and suggestions, thanks guys. Although no consensus which isn't helping!

 

I did contact them a few weeks ago to ask them to confirm that the contract had ended which they duly did. It was meant as a subtle (probably too subtle) hint that they hadn't closed my account properly but they didn't take the bait. I really do think they will continue to pay me until the original contract term ends in August next year. Bonkers.

 

I had considered getting their CEO contact details and going that route. I think I know deep down I need to let them know, but when I see my little secret bank balance getting bigger each month it becomes quite hard to press send.

 

 

no need to go that high up!

 

Make sure you keep the e-mails you send to anyone though!

[VLC86]

Just now, Strokes said:

Interest rates are beginning to rise, so he should be able to hold on for a curly wurly.

He lives in London remember.

[James.]

1 minute ago, StanSP said:

no need to go that high up!

 

Make sure you keep the e-mails you send to anyone though!

They are a small organisation. Most of the time I have dealt with the Operations Director which makes it even more shambolic.

[Countryfox]

You could be charged with 'Retaining wrongful credit' ...    and writing to them about it (or emailing) is a double edged sword as it notifies them but also proves that you know about it.   Send a recorded delivery letter and if they still don't reply keep it.

[Rogstanley]

I can’t see how there can be any law that forces people to analyse their bank account (but might be wrong) so I expect you would be able to ‘not notice’ the money going in for as long as you like. Keep the money ringfenced obviously in case they come chasing for it but if it all goes well then after a few years you should be safe. Morally, if this company is doing so well they don’t even need to check their outgoings, or conversely if they’re so cheap they won’t employ someone to check their outgoings then I’d say you’re in the clear. 

 

How come the time abroad with the family came to an end? Been thinking about doing a family backpacking trip with a young child ourselves.

[James.]

13 minutes ago, Rogstanley said:

I can’t see how there can be any law that forces people to analyse their bank account (but might be wrong) so I expect you would be able to ‘not notice’ the money going in for as long as you like. Keep the money ringfenced obviously in case they come chasing for it but if it all goes well then after a few years you should be safe. Morally, if this company is doing so well they don’t even need to check their outgoings, or conversely if they’re so cheap they won’t employ someone to check their outgoings then I’d say you’re in the clear. 

 

How come the time abroad with the family came to an end? Been thinking about doing a family backpacking trip with a young child ourselves.

Wise words, thanks.

 

We never intended to go away for 2 years, it was just the standard contract they offered. That said we maybe came home 1-2 months earlier than expected which was partly as a result of good old Brexit, which made our trip 15-20% more expensive overnight. We'd also got a little travel weary after having a passport stolen in Chile, getting very ill in Peru and then dealing with meddling bureaucrats trying to get into Canada.

 

That said it was a superb experience... we saw some wild sights and got to spend unique quality time as a family (my daughter was just over 1 when we left). If you're interested take a look at the blog we wrote, or send me a PM if you have any questions. 

[davieG]

Not quite the same circumstances but it may help.

 

Quote

 

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2012/jan/09/bank-account-250000-error

 

Later, I rang the UK Payments Council, which oversees the payments system, in search of answers. It turned out that it is familiar with "erroneous transfers", which occur when somebody mistypes an account number or a sort code. "If that combination happens to belong to someone else, then that payment will go through to a third party," a spokewoman confirmed. "Although if they use that money, essentially they are committing theft," she warned. "No matter how much you need it or how much you want it, that money doesn't belong to you." Not even the interest? "No."

 

 

[Benguin]

1 hour ago, James. said:

Here's mine.

 

I travelled in South and Central America with my wife and daughter for around 9 months between August 2016 and May 2017. During that time we rented out our 2 bedroom flat in London. We signed up to a guaranteed rent scheme with an online estate agent meaning each month the estate agent would pay us a fixed amount regardless of whether the flat was tenanted or not. We signed a 2 year agreement with a break clause that could be activated after 1 year. When we returned to the UK we activated the break clause and subsequently moved back in to our flat at the end of August this year.

 

However despite moving back in the online agent has continued to transfer the same fixed monthly rental amount and has now overpaid me by about 2.5 months rent (likely to be 3.5 months if they transfer the October rent in a few days time). As you can imagine at London rates it is not an insignificant amount of money.

 

I know full well that I should contact them but at the same time there is a little bit of me that doesn't want to (I keep writing the email and then discarding it). It is beyond shambolic that they have continued to pay me and throughout the entire time we dealt with them they came across as amateurish and unprofessional. I don't know why I should help them out when they can't even get the absolute basics right. That said this is obviously not my money.

 

Does anyone have any legal or moral guidance for me?

 

Many thanks.

The money you are receiving is not yours. Legally speaking you have zero defence even if their admin is terrible. If you spend it or don't pay back when they find out, do not be surprised to get ruled against in court. Best thing to do is ring them and pay it back.