2018/19 U23s, Development, U19s etc

[elvisfmcfly]

3 minutes ago, gurru991 said:

Wow !!!

He lasted two weeks before we gave up on him !!

Better than the 45 minutes Jonny Evans got! 

[davieG]

3 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

This idea of requiring fast CB's to succeed, is a myth. Some of the best ever CB's were slow as a carthorse.

Wasn't this before the current change to FBs that are more wingers than FBs?

 

So yeah it doesn't matter so much if you have FBs that are FBs only. But if we're going to play a high defensive line with the FBs up and around the penalty box and your 2 defensive mid-fielders up there with them then your 2 slow CBs will be exposed to the modern fast running strikers which is what happened to us against Bournemouth Maguire was totally outpaced for the first goal.

[davieG]

4 minutes ago, elvisfmcfly said:

Better than the 45 minutes Jonny Evans got! 

The difference is that Evans should have needed no time to acclimatise as people keep reminded us he's played 300 Pl games.

[Ric Flair]

1 minute ago, davieG said:

The difference is that Evans should have needed no time to acclimatise as people keep reminded us he's played 300 Pl games.

But was it the horrific positioning of Ricardo that caused his poor display? I'm concerned Evans had a bad season last year and is in a decline on the back of it, we badly need a leader as our defence is the pits.

[elvisfmcfly]

1 minute ago, davieG said:

The difference is that Evans should have needed no time to acclimatise as people keep reminded us he's played 300 Pl games.

He needs more than 45 minutes to fit into a disorganised back 4! We’ve 2 full backs who can’t defend and Maguire whose a bit overrated! At least Evans can actually defend! 

[murphy]

2 minutes ago, elvisfmcfly said:

He needs more than 45 minutes to fit into a disorganised back 4! We’ve 2 full backs who can’t defend and Maguire whose a bit overrated! At least Evans can actually defend! 

Maguire isn't overrated just because he had one bad game.

 

I blame the management for Maguire and Morgan's performance.  The line was too high against pacy forwards, they were set up to fail.  

Tactical disaster-class.

[gurru991]

13 minutes ago, elvisfmcfly said:

Better than the 45 minutes Jonny Evans got! 

That's True 

We are getting better.

[elvisfmcfly]

2 minutes ago, murphy said:

Maguire isn't overrated just because he had one bad game.

 

I blame the management for Maguire and Morgan's performance.  The line was too high against pacy forwards, they were set up to fail.  

Tactical disaster-class.

He’s overrated cause he’s not great at defending,granted he has to play next to Morgan but he’s definitely overrated! Morgan and Maguire doesn’t work,we’ve seen it for a full season,our back 4 in general is made up of poor defenders. 

[STUHILL]

1 minute ago, davieG said:

Wasn't this before the current change to FBs that are more wingers than FBs?

 

So yeah it doesn't matter so much if you have FBs that are FBs only. But if we're going to play a high defensive line with the FBs up and around the penalty box and your 2 defensive mid-fielders up there with them then your 2 slow CBs will be exposed to the modern fast running strikers which is what happened to us against Bournemouth Maguire was totally outpaced for the first goal.

Totally agree. You also have to have the system that plays to the player's strengths, but also negates their weaknesses. The speed of the CB's or lack of, were targeted by Howe and Bournemouth, but I think it was more because of having attacking full backs in Chilwell and Pereira that left a lot of space for Wes and Maguire to cover as well as Mendy and N'didi failing to sit deep and offer that extra support. They were just totally exposed on Saturday and I think most CB's in the league would have struggled with the way we set up and how easily Bournemouth exploited it. 

 

If Puel stubbornly sticks with this formation and having Periera and Chilwell as fullbacks, then they will either need to learn to keep the shape better, as well as one of Mendy or N'didi sitting deep OR we will need CB's with more pace. I do think their pace shouldn't be the issue though, if Puel gets the system right

[murphy]

20 minutes ago, gurru991 said:

Wow !!!

He lasted two weeks before we gave up on him !!

I didn't see the U23 game but if somebody says that he looked a bit ropey last night, that's a perfectly reasonable comment, it is not the same as giving up on him ffs.

 

 

[STUHILL]

13 minutes ago, davieG said:

The difference is that Evans should have needed no time to acclimatise as people keep reminded us he's played 300 Pl games.

He's allowed 1 poor game surely, before being dropped! He may have 300 games in the Premier League, but he is still coming into a new team, partnering with a different CB and playing a different system. It's far too early to be dropping him and writing him off as our starting CB IMO.

[gurru991]

3 minutes ago, murphy said:

I didn't see the U23 game but if somebody says that he looked a bit ropey last night, that's a perfectly reasonable comment, it is not the same as giving up on him ffs.

 

 

The statement was that we may have loaned out the wrong CB. That is very close to giving up on him ffs

Edited 17 September 2018 by gurru991

[EnderbyFox]

24 minutes ago, gurru991 said:

Wow !!!

He lasted two weeks before we gave up on him !!

 

Who's giving up on him? I'm giving an opinion based on the 4 games I've seen him play since he signed for us  

 

I'm sure he'll come good but if you watched any of the U23 games he's featured in so far i'm sure you'd be hesitant to throw him into a Premier League game.

 

[murphy]

1 minute ago, elvisfmcfly said:

He’s overrated cause he’s not great at defending,granted he has to play next to Morgan but he’s definitely overrated! Morgan and Maguire doesn’t work,we’ve seen it for a full season,our back 4 in general is made up of poor defenders. 

Disagree.  He is not quick, we know that and he is not perfect, but play to his strengths rather than his weaknesses and he is a very good young defender who will only get better.

 

As has been said before, some great CBs have not been that quick and if your central defender finds himself in a foot race with a forward running towards their own goal then they have already failed in that instance.  We need to be smarter tactically.

[STUHILL]

7 minutes ago, murphy said:

Maguire isn't overrated just because he had one bad game.

 

I blame the management for Maguire and Morgan's performance.  The line was too high against pacy forwards, they were set up to fail.  

Tactical disaster-class.

Spot on. I honestly don't hold the players to much account for Saturday. The system was all wrong and made us very easy to play against. It made Maguire who was one of the stand out players in the WC, look like a League 2 defender. 

 

We have a really talented squad and players with great individual abilities, but if the system doesn't focus on their strengths and actually exposes their weakness i.e lack of pace, then it is always likely we will struggle 

[elvisfmcfly]

1 minute ago, murphy said:

Disagree.  He is not quick, we know that and he is not perfect, but play to his strengths rather than his weaknesses and he is a very good young defender who will only get better.

 

As has been said before, some great CBs have not been that quick and if your central defender finds himself in a foot race with a forward running towards their own goal then they have already failed in that instance.  We need to be smarter tactically.

Well yeah I don’t disagree with that but he’s still overrated,as I’ve said the whole back 4 is the problem it’s just not working cause we’ve too many players who are better at attacking than they are defending,everyone can see the defenders we have would be better in a back 3/5 unfortunately Puel can’t and doesn’t change anything. Evans in for Morgan is not gonna be much difference.we need to learn to defend as a team.

[Simoken]

9 minutes ago, EnderbyFox said:

Who's giving up on him? I'm giving an opinion based on the 4 games I've seen him play since he signed for us  

 

I'm sure he'll come good but if you watched any of the U23 games he's featured in so far i'm sure you'd be hesitant to throw him into a Premier League game.

Lol you cant go from saying hes shit to this.... have some balls will you

[EnderbyFox]

6 minutes ago, Simoken said:

Lol you cant go from saying hes shit to this.... have some balls will you

 

Another poster that can't read 

 

Look at the Mercury calling him shit here 

 

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/sport/football/match-reports/caglar-coyuncu-leicester-city-under-2010343

Edited 17 September 2018 by EnderbyFox

[davieG]

18 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

He's allowed 1 poor game surely, before being dropped! He may have 300 games in the Premier League, but he is still coming into a new team, partnering with a different CB and playing a different system. It's far too early to be dropping him and writing him off as our starting CB IMO.

I expect someone with his experience and pedigree to perform a whole lot better than he did it was inexcusable. 

As for him being dropped who knows presumably Puel would have taken many things into account before making that decision and as you say if he needed  more time to get to know our system then that should be done on the training ground so maybe that's why he was dropped.

 

[STUHILL]

39 minutes ago, davieG said:

I expect someone with his experience and pedigree to perform a whole lot better than he did it was inexcusable. 

As for him being dropped who knows presumably Puel would have taken many things into account before making that decision and as you say if he needed  more time to get to know our system then that should be done on the training ground so maybe that's why he was dropped.

 

ONE game dude! Come on. We all have off days. Even Messi is capable of a stinker! 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

ONE game dude! Come on. We all have off days. Even Messi is capable of a stinker! 

But he hasn't had a good game for over a year. Just because he has played 300 PL games and Ferguson thought he was great, doesn't mean he's good now. He couldn't even get in the relegated west brom team last season. Saying he was pots 2 out of 3 years makes no difference if he's lost it.

 

Giving him or anyone else the excuse that they can only play if they have FBs next to them and not WBs is a poor excuse. It's obvious that we are going to play WBs - which is a good thing because Simmo playing in the back 4 was really "dross" last year. I agree that Jonny can't play with WBs because he's too slow - that's why he's been dropped and really isn't any use to us now. We need to choose the CBs who can play with WBs surely.

[STUHILL]

3 minutes ago, FIF said:

But he hasn't had a good game for over a year. Just because he has played 300 PL games and Ferguson thought he was great, doesn't mean he's good now. He couldn't even get in the relegated west brom team last season. Saying he was pots 2 out of 3 years makes no difference if he's lost it.

 

Giving him or anyone else the excuse that they can only play if they have FBs next to them and not WBs is a poor excuse. It's obvious that we are going to play WBs - which is a good thing because Simmo playing in the back 4 was really "dross" last year. I agree that Jonny can't play with WBs because he's too slow - that's why he's been dropped and really isn't any use to us now. We need to choose the CBs who can play with WBs surely.

Who then? Maguire looked evenly slower. Wes slow also. Amartey? How many games has he played at CB? 

[brucey]

1 hour ago, EnderbyFox said:

 

Who's giving up on him? I'm giving an opinion based on the 4 games I've seen him play since he signed for us  

 

I'm sure he'll come good but if you watched any of the U23 games he's featured in so far i'm sure you'd be hesitant to throw him into a Premier League game.

 

Did you watch the one U23 game that Benkovic featured in? wasn't any better.

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

Who then? Maguire looked evenly slower. Wes slow also. Amartey? How many games has he played at CB? 

I'm happy to with any of the U23 CBs over Evans - and there we are back on thread. Shall we keep it there?

[STUHILL]

5 minutes ago, FIF said:

I'm happy to with any of the U23 CBs over Evans - and there we are back on thread. Shall we keep it there?

Happy to keep it there and agree to disagree. I imagine Evans will start on Saturday.

 

I think it will be tough for him and Maguire again if Puel sticks with the same formation and tactics though.

 

But, it will still be interesting to see how Evans performs and I'll certainly be willing to concede I could be wrong if he has another stinker, if you are too and he performs very well. 

 

After all, we both want success, doesn't matter which players bring it in the end.