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2 minutes ago, MattP said:

Change UK announce Stephen Dorrell and Rachel Johnson as candidates. 

 

Still waiting to see what this "change" is they want to see.

 

So, we've got Boris supporting Hard Brexit (& his own career), Rachel standing for Change UK, Daddy Johnson standing as a pro-EU Tory.....

 

Just need Jo Johnson to defect to the Lib Dems now and Mummy Johnson to join the SWP. :D

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12 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

Sounds likely.

 

Vote percentages will matter, though. If the Brexit Party were to get anywhere close to 40%, that would seriously damage the Second Referendum campaign, I'd have thought.

Whereas, even if they top the poll, if their vote share is 28% or something then it'll be good publicity for them, but won't show us anything we don't already know - namely that a sizeable chunk of the population support Brexit at any cost....but not necessarily anywhere close to a majority....

 

Would be interesting to see what happened to Labour's vote share if they "reluctantly supported the need for a second referendum", though

I don't see the BP getting 40% - anything above the UKIP vote share in 2015 would be a decent result for a party that didn't exist a few weeks ago.

 

No idea on the latter, my instinct is the Labour vote share would go up on the whole but as I've said before, in a general election could cost them a lot of seats in towns and areas outside the M25.

 

11 minutes ago, purpleronnie said:

Just out of interest a question for those who know more than I, what other policies do the Brexit party have?  Is it just a case of the bounder getting on his horse and trying to lap up the protest votes, or is there more substance?

Nothing except a proper Brexit.

 

It's a bit more than a protest vote though, I'd imagine many leavers are absolutely aghast we are taking part in these elections nearly three years after we voted to leave the EU.

 

They are necessary choice - Battens UKIP cannot be the only Eurosceptic choice for millions of people who want one.

 

10 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

So, we've got Boris supporting Hard Brexit (& his own career), Rachel standing for Change UK, Daddy Johnson standing as a pro-EU Tory.....

 

Just need Jo Johnson to defect to the Lib Dems now and Mummy Johnson to join the SWP. :D

lol

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15 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

 

Given that they are pro-austerity, pro-privatisation and pro-Remain it's becoming clear that they are called Change for the same reason that bald men are sometimes called Curly.

'Liberal Democrats' was already taken. 

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24 minutes ago, bovril said:

'Liberal Democrats' was already taken. 

 

Being neither Liberal nor Democrats, that would also have suited the apparent theme here, but alas already taken as you say.

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1 hour ago, bovril said:

'Liberal Democrats' was already taken. 

Still makes me chuckle that the "Liberal Democrats" main policy in the last election was overturning a democratic decision with a leader who thought gay sex was a sin.

Edited by MattP
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19 minutes ago, MattP said:

Still males me chuckle that the "Liberal Democrats" main policy in the last election was overturning a democratic decision with a leader who thought gay sex was a sin.

Some of the most painful TV was watching Farron asked about that belief.

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3 hours ago, Realist Guy In The Room said:

Some of the most painful TV was watching Farron asked about that belief.

Just makes you wonder how shit the other 7 MPs must have been to have elected an illiberal undemocratic religious muppet as leader. 

 

Agreed with him on legalising cannabis though...

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May now more unpopular than Grayling amongst Tories.

 

IMG_20190424_083914.jpg

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21 minutes ago, MattP said:

May now more unpopular than Grayling amongst Tories.

 

 

That's quite an achievement. Completely ignoring politics, Grayling just seems to be grossly incompetent on a personal level, so polling lower than him....?!

Doubtless Tory MPs will be seeing polling like that and hearing opinions expressed in constituencies. Makes it likely that May will be toppled soon, somehow or other, unless she gets the Withdrawal Agreement through (maybe even if she does)?

 

Any idea why Tories like Liz Truss so much? I presume being Eurosceptic is part of it, but that applies to Grayling, too, and he polls very badly.

I keep hearing Truss mentioned as a potential leadership candidate and wonder why? Again, on a purely personal, non-political basis, she seems second-rate to me...

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8 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

That's quite an achievement. Completely ignoring politics, Grayling just seems to be grossly incompetent on a personal level, so polling lower than him....?!

Doubtless Tory MPs will be seeing polling like that and hearing opinions expressed in constituencies. Makes it likely that May will be toppled soon, somehow or other, unless she gets the Withdrawal Agreement through (maybe even if she does)?

 

Any idea why Tories like Liz Truss so much? I presume being Eurosceptic is part of it, but that applies to Grayling, too, and he polls very badly.

I keep hearing Truss mentioned as a potential leadership candidate and wonder why? Again, on a purely personal, non-political basis, she seems second-rate to me...

I can't see a leader in there, they've all shown them selves up at some point either through incompetence or back-stabbing. I wouldn't vote for any of them as PM, not that I'd vote for any of the main political parties.

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1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said:

That's quite an achievement. Completely ignoring politics, Grayling just seems to be grossly incompetent on a personal level, so polling lower than him....?!

Doubtless Tory MPs will be seeing polling like that and hearing opinions expressed in constituencies. Makes it likely that May will be toppled soon, somehow or other, unless she gets the Withdrawal Agreement through (maybe even if she does)?

 

Any idea why Tories like Liz Truss so much? I presume being Eurosceptic is part of it, but that applies to Grayling, too, and he polls very badly.

I keep hearing Truss mentioned as a potential leadership candidate and wonder why? Again, on a purely personal, non-political basis, she seems second-rate to me...

I honestly have no idea, Truss to me is woefully out of her depth already and shouldn't even be in the cabinet.

 

The only thing I can think of is that she's a woman and that seems to make you a candidate these days regardless of competence because of the obsession with identity politics. 

 

I think she was actually a Remainer during the referendum but changed afterwards.

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41 minutes ago, davieG said:

Ann Widdecombe: Former Tory MP to stand for Brexit Party

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48034732

Fantastic! One of my favourite politicians. 

 

The South-West looks a cracking fight, Widdecombe v R. Johnson v Lord Adonis - it's a shame they can all go through, the hustings would be worth a watch. 

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1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

That's quite an achievement. Completely ignoring politics, Grayling just seems to be grossly incompetent on a personal level, so polling lower than him....?!

Doubtless Tory MPs will be seeing polling like that and hearing opinions expressed in constituencies. Makes it likely that May will be toppled soon, somehow or other, unless she gets the Withdrawal Agreement through (maybe even if she does)?

 

Any idea why Tories like Liz Truss so much? I presume being Eurosceptic is part of it, but that applies to Grayling, too, and he polls very badly.

I keep hearing Truss mentioned as a potential leadership candidate and wonder why? Again, on a purely personal, non-political basis, she seems second-rate to me...

 

Quite possible she's there on the basis of her surname being a headline or slogan writers dream.

 

I imagine a lot of voters were pulled in by Truss Me, Truss-worthy and Someone You Can Truss banners.

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7 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

 

Quite possible she's there on the basis of her surname being a headline or slogan writers dream.

 

I imagine a lot of voters were pulled in by Truss Me, Truss-worthy and Someone You Can Truss banners.

 

Not sure I'd want to be All Trussed Up.

 

Mind you, she could rehash the old Shriekback classic "All Lined Up" as "All Trussed Up" and have it playing as she walked onto stage for her speeches.

Probably best to avoid May-style robot dances, though...

 

 

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2 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

That's quite an achievement. Completely ignoring politics, Grayling just seems to be grossly incompetent on a personal level, so polling lower than him....?!

Doubtless Tory MPs will be seeing polling like that and hearing opinions expressed in constituencies. Makes it likely that May will be toppled soon, somehow or other, unless she gets the Withdrawal Agreement through (maybe even if she does)?

 

Any idea why Tories like Liz Truss so much? I presume being Eurosceptic is part of it, but that applies to Grayling, too, and he polls very badly.

I keep hearing Truss mentioned as a potential leadership candidate and wonder why? Again, on a purely personal, non-political basis, she seems second-rate to me...

 

100% cos she's transfixed by Ayn Rand which plays well for Con Home readers who are desperate for a pound shop Thatcher. 

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Has there been a more disastrous launch of a UK political party? Logo farce and a second candidate now having to resign within 24 hours.

 

The vetting clearly wasn't upto much.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/change-uk-joseph-russo-twitter-eu-elections-candidate-racism-a8884041.html

 

It's a good job they are overwhelmingly pro-EU as any important decisions probably shouldn't be taken by the people in this mob anyway.

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20 minutes ago, MattP said:

Has there been a more disastrous launch of a UK political party? Logo farce and a second candidate now having to resign within 24 hours.

 

The vetting clearly wasn't upto much.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/change-uk-joseph-russo-twitter-eu-elections-candidate-racism-a8884041.html

 

It's a good job they are overwhelmingly pro-EU as any important decisions probably shouldn't be taken by the people in this mob anyway.

 

Here's another one of their candidates comparing her uni housemates to the Nazis for watching the Inbetweeners movie after midnight.

 

 

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Tbf the byline on her blog "Just another middle-class nothing wanting some attention.." is a most accurate summation of Change UK The Independent Group TIGers Remain Alliance

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18 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

 

Here's another one of their candidates comparing her uni housemates to the Nazis for watching the Inbetweeners movie after midnight.

 

 

I used to loathe living with people like that. People are bonding and trying to have fun, if they want to come in at 3am having a laugh after a Saturday on the piss in town then you’ll have to put up with it you entitled little shit bag. 

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36 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

I used to loathe living with people like that. People are bonding and trying to have fun, if they want to come in at 3am having a laugh after a Saturday on the piss in town then you’ll have to put up with it you entitled little shit bag. 

Nah, as pretentious as her blog is, I'm with her on that one.

 

When I was at Uni, I was normally the staying-up-til-5am being loud and annoying type, and I didn't have too much sympathy for those who complained about it. But everyone knows that exam times are an exception - it's an unwritten rule that if anyone in your house has an exam the next day, you make sure that you're not a complete arsehole and keep the noise down as much as you can.

 

As for her 'blog', nothing particularly wrong with it - I thought I'd have a look at it, because it looked like the context of the original picture wasn't very clear. Ok, it's a little boring and pretentious, but I've known lots of people like that. A very sensationalised headline.  If anything, I get more annoyed by the type of politics which seems to involve digging up as many minor things about a persons past and blowing them up way out of proportion. "look, this person once said a swear word 7 years ago on twitter" or indeed "look how he eats a bacon sandwich". It's just shit politics.

 

(Though obviously Russo is a different kettle of fish there - clearly a bit of a twat)

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2 hours ago, MattP said:

Has there been a more disastrous launch of a UK political party? Logo farce and a second candidate now having to resign within 24 hours.

 

The vetting clearly wasn't upto much.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/change-uk-joseph-russo-twitter-eu-elections-candidate-racism-a8884041.html

 

It's a good job they are overwhelmingly pro-EU as any important decisions probably shouldn't be taken by the people in this mob anyway.

 

If Change UK don't turn this fiasco around quickly, they'll be dead as a party before they're born. It's hard enough getting traction for a new party without cocking everything up!

 

European elections should be a God-send for them. It's clear that there are a lot of motivated Remain/Referendum supporters out there - some of them disillusioned with Labour's nuanced stance (even if I'm not).

Change UK have/had a big opportunity to grab many of those votes, by making a strong media impression.

 

If they don't make a strong media impression, they could go downhill fast. Labour, Lib Dems & Greens, even Tories are likely to have a much better campaign on the ground.

And just receiving a leaflet or knock at the door makes all the difference to a lot of voters. Lib Dems may get a boost from the local elections (in which Change aren't even standing). Greens should get a boost from climate change being high on the media agenda recently with the protests, the Attenborough programme etc. Labour and Tory voters considering switching might stay loyal to their traditional party or stay at home if they're given no good reason to switch.

 

At the moment, there seems every chance that Change UK could get no MEPs. They could still get traction after that, but it'd be a lot, lot harder.....and if there was an early general election, they could easily lose all their MPs.

 

Stephen Bush was highlighting their campaigning incompetence even before this latest fiasco: https://www.newstatesman.com/change-uk-brexit-party-launch-comparison-nigel-farage

 

"It’s being compared unfavourably with the gradual roll-out of Nigel Farage’s Brexit Party candidates, which included a nurse, a marine veteran, a small business owner and the head of a charity, none of whom have at time of writing had to resign. Today Ann Widdecombe, former Tory minister and shadow cabinet veteran has announced that she is one of the candidates for the Brexit Party, too. The comparisons underline and illuminate Change UK’s missed opportunity. Change UK’s route to long-term success lies in presenting itself as an anti-system party of the centre, while its path to short-term success and viability is in becoming the best way for Remainers to send a message to the two big political parties on 23 May".

 

"You don’t have to be Peter Mandelson to know that announcing a few names from your list of MEPs ahead of time, as Farage did with Annunziata Rees-Mogg, and leaving a couple of names in reserve, as Farage did with Widdecombe, gets you more coverage over more time. There’s no reason why Change UK couldn’t have done the same, unveiling a set of fresh-faced candidates yesterday and gradually revealing the likes of Esler, Johnson and the various former MPs to have defected over a longer period. It underlines one of their biggest problems: that its members don’t seem to understand that the rules are different for smaller parties, that they are no longer guaranteed the coverage that came from being one pole of their former parties’ civil wars, and that if no one has heard of you, no one will vote for you. That’s a challenge that the Liberal Democrats – and Farage – have learnt how to overcome over long years. Change UK may not have the benefit of time".

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