Also in the news

[davieG]

My nephew's painting

 

 

[davieG]

What's stopping the Tories doing this whilst we're in the EU, genuine question.

[WigstonWanderer]

Adam Boulton really ripped into Kwasi Kwarteng (Boris supporter) on All out Politics over contradictions in Boris’ positions. Don’t ask me to recount the interview, you’d have to watch it, and I can’t post a link, but worth watching if you get the chance.

[Facecloth]

John Prescott in hospital after a stroke.

 

Former deputy prime minister John Prescott in hospital after stroke https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/john-prescott-stroke-hospital-illness-labour-peer-update-health-a8971926.html Sent via @updayUK

[Innovindil]

27 minutes ago, davieG said:

What's stopping the Tories doing this whilst we're in the EU, genuine question.

The same thing that's stopping them now, the electorate. 

 

Only ever been a stick to beat with, on par with muh chlorinated chickens. Even Donald said the NHS was almost certainly off limits in any trade deal, but doesn't quite drown out the screeching. 

[leicsmac]

13 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

The same thing that's stopping them now, the electorate. 

 

Only ever been a stick to beat with, on par with muh chlorinated chickens. Even Donald said the NHS was almost certainly off limits in any trade deal, but doesn't quite drown out the screeching. 

Yeah, but there's often a difference between what the Don says/tweets and what then he chooses to implement as policy,, pathological liar that he is.

 

That being said, I would agree that as long as there is enough popular opinion there will be enough pushback against such a deal with the US to keep the NHS out of their direct influence.

[deep blue]

21 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Yeah, but there's often a difference between what the Don says/tweets and what then he chooses to implement as policy,, pathological liar that he is.

 

That being said, I would agree that as long as there is enough popular opinion there will be enough pushback against such a deal with the US to keep the NHS out of their direct influence.

That's if the public are aware of what deals are being made. I read a few days ago that we've been in secret discussions with the US for many weeks already but all attempts to make those terms public have failed, the sum total being a few heavily redacted documents. Can't be sure of the truth of that; could be fake news!

 

It doesn't seem that improbable that such a thing could be going on, though, and the true extent of deals made comes to light too late for anything to be done.

[Izzy]

56 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

John Prescott in hospital after a stroke.

 

Former deputy prime minister John Prescott in hospital after stroke https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/john-prescott-stroke-hospital-illness-labour-peer-update-health-a8971926.html Sent via @updayUK

Can't believe he's 81 

 

I managed an electrical store in Hull in the mid 90's and John Prescott came in with his wife to buy a 4 way plug adapter off me 

 

I've never seen someone with bags under their eyes as big as his - he looked totally exhausted and the picture of ill health back then. I'm surprised he's lasted this long tbh.

[Innovindil]

21 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Yeah, but there's often a difference between what the Don says/tweets and what then he chooses to implement as policy,, pathological liar that he is.

 

That being said, I would agree that as long as there is enough popular opinion there will be enough pushback against such a deal with the US to keep the NHS out of their direct influence.

So after you've got your 9 millionth dig at trump in you essentially agree with what he said. 

 

It really is a strange time to be alive. 

[deep blue]

The info on secret UK-US trade deals is at www.tjm.org.uk  ...  tradedeals.

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Innovindil said:

So after you've got your 9 millionth dig at trump in you essentially agree with what he said. 

 

It really is a strange time to be alive. 

Nope, allow me to clarify further - I think anything that comes out of that mans mouth is unworthy of trust without serious verification and as such I think it's entirely possible he could turn round and demand NHS concessions in any trade agreement...however, thankfully I also think that the British public still have enough about them to give such a deal a hard time by making it known that any government who did that would get annihilated at the next general election.

 

And I make no apologies whatsoever for despising the man and his administration and continuing to make that emphatically clear.

[Facecloth]

8 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Can't believe he's 81 

 

I managed an electrical store in Hull in the mid 90's and John Prescott came in with his wife to buy a 4 way plug adapter off me 

 

I've never seen someone with bags under their eyes as big as his - he looked totally exhausted and the picture of ill health back then. I'm surprised he's lasted this long tbh.

I think I can't believe he's 81 and then think why wouldn't he be, he's been around forever. 

[Innovindil]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

Nope, allow me to clarify further - I think anything that comes out of that mans mouth is unworthy of trust without serious verification and as such I think it's entirely possible he could turn round and demand NHS concessions in any trade agreement...however, thankfully I also think that the British public still have enough about them to give such a deal a hard time by making it known that any government who did that would get annihilated at the next general election.

 

And I make no apologies whatsoever for despising the man and his administration and continuing to make that emphatically clear.

That's pretty much what trump said. 

[leicsmac]

26 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

That's pretty much what trump said. 

I hate to ask this...but do you have a source on that?

 

In any case, I don't think his opinion of the British people in that way makes it in any way certain that he isn't telling porkies and might not try, which is my point - you can't trust what the guy says.

 

Edit: To further elaborate and to address the original point made; because of the above I wouldn't dismiss the idea of radical NHS reform happening out of hand, even if I do think that people probably would make enough noise to stop it.

Edited 24 June 2019 by leicsmac

[leicsmac]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48739256

 

Some good news!

 

Perhaps it's too much to hope that this might see Erdogan begin to crumble, but you never know.

[Innovindil]

45 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I hate to ask this...but do you have a source on that?

 

In any case, I don't think his opinion of the British people in that way makes it in any way certain that he isn't telling porkies and might not try, which is my point - you can't trust what the guy says.

 

Edit: To further elaborate and to address the original point made; because of the above I wouldn't dismiss the idea of radical NHS reform happening out of hand, even if I do think that people probably would make enough noise to stop it.

It doesn't matter if he sodding tries. That is the point and the whole flipping point that started this off. Every single man, woman and child with an IQ above 4 knows that the government in power that sells the NHS, won't be in power for more than a week after that. There wouldn't be noise, there would be full scale national riots ffs. Just look at the meltdowns that even MENTIONING selling the NHS causes. 

 

Jesus wept. 

[leicsmac]

9 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

It doesn't matter if he sodding tries. That is the point and the whole flipping point that started this off. Every single man, woman and child with an IQ above 4 knows that the government in power that sells the NHS, won't be in power for more than a week after that. There wouldn't be noise, there would be full scale national riots ffs. Just look at the meltdowns that even MENTIONING selling the NHS causes. 

 

Jesus wept. 

I'm well aware of your point and my answering point to it, if that wasn't clear, is while you're probably right with everything you're saying here, given certain circumstances it isn't a certainty and I don't think that being vigilant about it just in case is "screeching".

 

Evidently we disagree there, though.

Edited 24 June 2019 by leicsmac

[Innovindil]

7 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I'm well aware of your point and my answering point to it, if that wasn't clear, is while you're probably right with everything you're saying here, given certain circumstances it isn't a certainty and I don't think that being vigilant about it just in case is "screeching".

 

Evidently we disagree there, though.

How can it not be a certainty, how can you even remotely think there wouldn't be a national backlash. A few unwashed hippies with frankly unreasonable demands shut down large sections of London that cost the economy tens of millions of pounds. Having seen the sheer outrage at trumps "anythings on the table" comment, how can you even entertain the idea that the government in power would have any chance at all of getting away with it? 

[Buce]

32 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

It doesn't matter if he sodding tries. That is the point and the whole flipping point that started this off. Every single man, woman and child with an IQ above 4 knows that the government in power that sells the NHS, won't be in power for more than a week after that. There wouldn't be noise, there would be full scale national riots ffs. Just look at the meltdowns that even MENTIONING selling the NHS causes. 

 

Jesus wept. 

 

American lobbyists want it included in a trade deal that the law is changed to allow the UK government to be sued if they try to withdraw from any deal, so changing government wouldn't be of any use:

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/us-lobbyists-brexit_uk_5c5b26c6e4b001

 

Also, May refused to rule it out:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-nhs-us-trade-deal-talks-privatisation-healthcare-trump-a8198871.html

Edited 24 June 2019 by Buce

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

How can it not be a certainty, how can you even remotely think there wouldn't be a national backlash. A few unwashed hippies with frankly unreasonable demands shut down large sections of London that cost the economy tens of millions of pounds. Having seen the sheer outrage at trumps "anythings on the table" comment, how can you even entertain the idea that the government in power would have any chance at all of getting away with it? 

Because given the events of the last few years both in the UK and around the world I'm certain of absolutely zilch politically now. The world seems to be changing, and I don't think I know enough about the populace to make any prediction about how it might continue to change over the next few years.

 

This is probably my own take, but there's a world of difference between something being merely very likely and being dead certain.

[bovril]

52 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-48739256

 

Some good news!

 

Perhaps it's too much to hope that this might see Erdogan begin to crumble, but you never know.

There were flags waving and car horns going off in North London yesterday. The Turkish community in London is mostly very anti-Erdogan, I have a friend who won't even say his name. 

[Innovindil]

14 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

American lobbyists want it included in a trade deal that the law is changed to allow the UK government to be sued if they try to withdraw from any deal, so changing government wouldn't be of any use:

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/us-lobbyists-brexit_uk_5c5b26c6e4b001

 

Also, May refused to rule it out:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-nhs-us-trade-deal-talks-privatisation-healthcare-trump-a8198871.html

Independent:

 

Later, No 10 tried to repair the damage done, insisting any trade deals after Brexit would “ensure decisions about public services continue to be made by UK governments, not trade partners”.

“As we leave the EU, the UK will continue to ensure that rigorous protections for the NHS are included in all trade agreements it is party to,” the Prime Minister’s spokesman added.

He pointed out that Ms May had previously pledged that “the NHS is not for sale and it never will be”.

 

Besides all that, May won't be in charge will she, so whatever she has said, or in this case, didn't say, doesn't really matter. 

 

Huff post just coming up with: although I'd be surprised if American lobbyists weren't targeting the NHS, why wouldn't they, an overbloated, piñata full of gold. There shouldn't be a single medical company in all the world not trying to get a piece of that cake, doesn't now, or ever, mean they will get it. 

 

404

This is so embarrassing.

 

 

[Buce]

6 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Independent:

 

Later, No 10 tried to repair the damage done, insisting any trade deals after Brexit would “ensure decisions about public services continue to be made by UK governments, not trade partners”.

“As we leave the EU, the UK will continue to ensure that rigorous protections for the NHS are included in all trade agreements it is party to,” the Prime Minister’s spokesman added.

He pointed out that Ms May had previously pledged that “the NHS is not for sale and it never will be”.

 

Besides all that, May won't be in charge will she, so whatever she has said, or in this case, didn't say, doesn't really matter. 

 

No, instead it will be a PM substantially to her right, desperate for a deal with the Yanks to rescue the post-Brexit fiasco, and the Yanks will be holding all the cards.

 

6 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

 

Huff post just coming up with: although I'd be surprised if American lobbyists weren't targeting the NHS, why wouldn't they, an overbloated, piñata full of gold. There shouldn't be a single medical company in all the world not trying to get a piece of that cake, doesn't now, or ever, mean they will get it. 

 

Neither does it mean they won't.

 

6 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

 

404

This is so embarrassing.

 

 

 

Agreed.

[Innovindil]

9 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

No, instead it will be a PM substantially to her right, desperate for a deal with the Yanks to rescue the post-Brexit fiasco, and the Yanks will be holding all the cards.

 

 

Neither does it mean they won't.

 

 

Agreed.

But the yanks won't be holding the British people will they. Which has been my point all along. Boris might try it, hell, he might even succeed, but there's no way it will be allowed to stand. 

 

If you've got another link to that huff post that doesn't 404, I really would be interested in reading it. 

 

 

[Buce]

6 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

 

 

If you've got another link to that huff post that doesn't 404, I really would be interested in reading it. 

 

 

 

It's doing it to me now.

 

Edit: I've managed to access it by going from my browser history - try it now:

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/us-lobbyists-brexit_uk_5c5b26c6e4b00187b5579f64?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvLnVrLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAJ1ihXcAMAzWKzOToN5Ek0Ys_0r43oHrKP2Sj3u9OGhgGL6HtOClGEe3LGHwGpbgZEaJ5TWsb_-IUkduH9nLqGXqdtI7agotMHj5ZmeVpDM6DfGdyLrNzDl7LSLQYLgb7zJeYQSDivP7q1wmqWwPQQDcRbjwp-wSCA8Cwi_X3BnO