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[Buce]

3 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

Personally I am looking forward to the commemorative 50p.  It'll be nice. Also looking forward to growing carrots in my garden and also hunting for wildlife on the roundabouts in Oadby. I'm currently working on a trap for pigeons.  As its mating season I'm going to sit in the garden wearing lip stick making my best cooing noises and when one gets close enough I'll grab it. Yum.

 

You joke but did you catch that interview on the BBC website with the Remain couple from Yorkshire the other day?  "We've got rabbits in the fields and we can grow potatoes in the garden". Then you have the likes of Bozo Johnson and Rees-Smug going on about 'spirit of the blitz' and the Defence Secretary talking about sending aircraft carriers to put the Chinese in their place. We really can't let these idiots determine our kids' future.

[stripeyfox]

23 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

So what are the benefits of leaving does anyone know?

An extra £300million a week for the NHS..... oh wait.....

 

[Benji]

3 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

I disagree.

 

Even if nobody changed their mind - and there is polling evidence to support a swing to Remain - sufficient elders have died (as a demographic largely voted to Leave) and have been replaced by sufficient new voters (as a demographic largely voted to Remain) to reverse the vote.

 

Why else do you think the Leave camp are so opposed?

 

I would absolutely love Brexit to be overturned but we as a nation are a bloody stubborn bunch.  I would be amazed if the result changed.  Why are they opposed? Because they're in a no-win situation.  They either get the same outcome they currently have or they risk losing it all.  Had we voted to remain on the first go I certainly wouldn't have wanted to risk it all over again with a second vote.  In summary, we're all going to hell.

 

Re: polls, if they had any credibility pre-GE, Brexit and Trump, I certainly don't bother looking at them any more. 

[Buce]

2 minutes ago, MattP said:

John Curtice was on the radio earlier saying there is no evidence of a swing to Remain so where is this evidence? 

 

The whole "dying off" has been disproved for decades as those in the middle become more "right/Tory" as they age - we were told in 97 the Conservative party would never win an election again as the vote had died off.

 

We also need to know what the EU would look like - it's going to be pretty Eurosceptic after the summer. 

 

 

And since then they've ruled by a coalition with the Liberals and are currently propped up by the DUP.

 

Not exactly winning, is it?

[Fox In The Box 90]

Just now, Buce said:

 

You joke but did you catch that interview on the BBC website with the Remain couple from Yorkshire the other day?  "We've got rabbits in the fields and we can grow potatoes in the garden". Then you have the likes of Bozo Johnson and Rees-Smug going on about 'spirit of the blitz' and the Defence Secretary talking about sending aircraft carriers to put the Chinese in their place. We really can't let these idiots determine our kids' future.

Requiring the "spirit of the blitz" to get through our own decision to break a mutually beneficial relationship. People actually say this.

 

Go stick "vote brexit - we survived a war" on the side of a bus. So appealing.

[stripeyfox]

34 minutes ago, rachhere said:

I still would be nervous of the outcome...! In the same way I am nervous that despite everything Trump will get in for a second term. 

As someone who voted to Remain, part of me would welcome another referendum if the choices were "Remain" and "Leave, but with a reasonable idea of what Leave would look like". It would be decisive for sure and I think it would be close again especially with all the Facebook propaganda which encourages idiots to vote Leave.

 

 

 

 

[Kopfkino]

28 minutes ago, MattP said:

Democracy mainly, tell them again. I'd imagine a whole campaign along the lines of that and a people v the establishment. 50/50 call again but you know Remain will do their best to fcuk it up again with another version of Project Fear.

 

Let's be frank, everything the remain side said was rubbish, 500k job losses, punishment budget and recession even in the event of a vote to leave.

 

The issues that have caused the most problematic have been Ireland - something Remain barely mentioned  (although @Alf Bentley on here did to his huge credit during the actual campaign) 

 

One of the biggest assets a Leave campaign would have is not being the Remain campaign (Macron is the biggest asset). We only have to look on here to see that many remainers have still not bothered, after almost three years, to try to understand Leave voters and the Eurosceptisism that was baked in long before the Referendum. Instead they prefer to take the piss, call them idiots, and tell them their people are dead. 

 

 

[Guest MattP]

10 minutes ago, Buce said:

And since then they've ruled by a coalition with the Liberals and are currently propped up by the DUP.

 

Not exactly winning, is it?

You missed the majority in the middle of that.

 

Put it this way, all the young were Labour then, destined to rule forever with a landslide - now they cheer Corbyn for winning a handful more seats than Kinnock did.

[Bryn]

1 minute ago, Kopfkino said:

 

One of the biggest assets a Leave campaign would have is not being the Remain campaign (Macron is the biggest asset). We only have to look on here to see that many remainers have still not bothered, after almost three years, to try to understand Leave voters and the Eurosceptisism that was baked in long before the Referendum. Instead they prefer to take the piss, call them idiots, and tell them their people are dead. 

 

 

It's been almost 3 years since the vote and I've still not seen a single, substantiated reason to leave. Not a single one. Nor have I seen a single unified vision of Brexit. Nor have I seen a reason why 17 million people with heterogenous views get to absolutely steamroller 16m with a single voice. Nor have I seen a good excuse to override the notion that the electorate gave uninformed consent to leaving, as there was scarcely a shred of truth in the whole Leave campaign.

[Fox In The Box 90]

Just now, Kopfkino said:

 

One of the biggest assets a Leave campaign would have is not being the Remain campaign (Macron is the biggest asset). We only have to look on here to see that many remainers have still not bothered, after almost three years, to try to understand Leave voters and the Eurosceptisism that was baked in long before the Referendum. Instead they prefer to take the piss, call them idiots, and tell them their people are dead. 

 

 

Its not that they havent tried to understand leave voters, its that theyve tried to understand them from every angle and cant, led to their decision by charlatans who are obviously lying

 

THEIR euroscepticism stands to make them richer. The typical leave voter's euroscepticism only serves to make themselves worse off and strip themselves of their own rights and priveleges.

 

There is obviously reform needed within the EU. It is not a perfect institution. The answer to reform was not to burn down your house and live in a tent instead though.

Edited 14 March 2019 by Fox In The Box 90

[Guest MattP]

The People's Vote Campaign now oppose putting a People's Vote amendment forward

 

We need a People's Vote.

NO

We need a People's Vote

NO

The only way out is a People's Vote

No

 

"Brings forward amendment for People's Vote"

 

People's Vote: Now is not the time for a People's Vote.

 

This is pure The Thick of It.

[Bryn]

ERG are doing a similar thing to be fair, but are better at it. But yes absolutely, politically I can see why TPV would have wanted to wait but that opposing it now it's been tabled is utterly farcical, as farcical as anything else that's occurred aside from choosing leave to begin with.

[Guest MattP]

Second referendum got 85 votes

[Fox In The Box 90]

Just now, MattP said:

Second referendum got 85 votes

Well brexit will have to be delayed then. Because each possibility is being voted down.

 

If you oppose mays deal

And oppose no deal

And oppose remaining

And oppose a second referendum

 

What are you supposed to support?

 

The unicorn + deal that doesnt exist and wont ever exist

Edited 14 March 2019 by Fox In The Box 90

[Guest MattP]

Hats off to Jeremy Corbyn as well - he's an idiot but he's got some nouse.

 

334 oppose a 2nd ref without abstainers and that isn't changing - the second referendum is dead.

[Kopfkino]

5 minutes ago, Bryn said:

It's been almost 3 years since the vote and I've still not seen a single, substantiated reason to leave

Then either you haven’t looked very hard or your definition of substantiated in somewhat influenced by whether you agree with the argument. One reason: it’s about who decides for who. Should the decisions that affect ‘me’ be made wholly in Westminster or at least in part, and possibly increasingly, by the EU? If you believe the former then why is that an unsubstantiated reason for voting to leave the EU?

 

11 minutes ago, Bryn said:

Nor have I seen a reason why 17 million people with heterogenous views get to absolutely steamroller 16m with a single voice.

Don’t disagree, said it numerous times that the biggest obstacle to a Brexit with any semblance of success is absolutism and a refusal to compromise from ERG types

 

13 minutes ago, Bryn said:

Nor have I seen a good excuse to override the notion that the electorate gave uninformed consent to leaving

Probably because of the lens you view it through. You can easily flip it around to say the electorate gave informed consent that they wish to no longer remain a part of the EU, knowing full well what membership entails. 

 

13 minutes ago, Fox In The Box 90 said:

The typical leave voter's euroscepticism only serves to make themselves worse off and strip themselves of their own rights and priveleges

Because you’re viewing it through a mostly economic lens with a sprinkling of it helps to avoid a queue when they go on holiday. But if those voters value the UK’s Supreme Court being supreme and the laws that affect them being decided in Westminster or even at a more local level at a price that is greater than their monetary loss from leaving then it makes them better off. 

[Fox In The Box 90]

Just now, Kopfkino said:

Then either you haven’t looked very hard or your definition of substantiated in somewhat influenced by whether you agree with the argument. One reason: it’s about who decides for who. Should the decisions that affect ‘me’ be made wholly in Westminster or at least in part, and possibly increasingly, by the EU? If you believe the former then why is that an unsubstantiated reason for voting to leave the EU?

 

Don’t disagree, said it numerous times that the biggest obstacle to a Brexit with any semblance of success is absolutism and a refusal to compromise from ERG types

 

Probably because of the lens you view it through. You can easily flip it around to say the electorate gave informed consent that they wish to no longer remain a part of the EU, knowing full well what membership entails. 

 

Because you’re viewing it through a mostly economic lens with a sprinkling of it helps to avoid a queue when they go on holiday. But if those voters value the UK’s Supreme Court being supreme and the laws that affect them being decided in Westminster or even at a more local level at a price that is greater than their monetary loss from leaving then it makes them better off. 

So you think that when we sign our own trade arrangements supernational courts sitting in arbitration of BOTH sides wont exist?

 

And if the monetary loss isnt a concern why has so much effort from your side been put in to deride people with exactly that view. 

 

People have told you youd be worse off and they were castigated for it for creating project fear. Youre agreeing with them that youll be worse off despite your side criticising them.

 

Its a point of view making no sense.

 

Cognitive dissonance

[Benji]

I do like the idea that Dave in Doncaster went to the poll station thinking about the concept of Parliamentary Sovereignty with a copy of Dicey under his arms.

[Guest MattP]

Only 25 Labour MP's voted against a second referendum - despite that being the position of the membership

[PloTok]

I had to google Dicey. Should I have voted to leave?

[Bryn]

What laws that are laid down by the ECOJ does the average leave voter specifically have concern with?

I firmly believe that the overwheming majority of leave voters are either racist or looking to profit from the misfortune of others.

 

The irony being when we're getting ****ed up the arse by negotiations with China/India/Brazil, we'll have to hand over mountains of visas to their nationals for them to allow us a little lube. And when our markets are being flooded with substandard American and Chinese goods, British manufacturing will suffer desperately.

[Milo]

1 minute ago, Bryn said:

What laws that are laid down by the ECOJ does the average leave voter specifically have concern with?

I firmly believe that the overwheming majority of leave voters are either racist or looking to profit from the misfortune of others.

 

The irony being when we're getting ****ed up the arse by negotiations with China/India/Brazil, we'll have to hand over mountains of visas to their nationals for them to allow us a little lube. And when our markets are being flooded with substandard American and Chinese goods, British manufacturing will suffer desperately.

Wow 

[Benji]

5 minutes ago, PloTok said:

I had to google Dicey. Should I have voted to leave?

I'd go further, you shouldn't have been given the vote like the rest of the country.  We have never been well enough informed or qualified to make this decision (which is a different to saying people are stupid).  A very unpopular opinion I'm sure but one I've always firmly believed.

[Super_horns]

15 minutes ago, MattP said:

Only 25 Labour MP's voted against a second referendum - despite that being the position of the membership

SO does that mean that they all have to quit as that was reported when it was suggested some Tory MPs have gone against the Government in the one of the other votes?

 

In other words not adhering to the party line...

 

 

 

 

[stripeyfox]

3 minutes ago, Benji said:

I'd go further, you shouldn't have been given the vote like the rest of the country.  We have never been well enough informed or qualified to make this decision (which is a different to saying people are stupid).  A very unpopular opinion I'm sure but one I've always firmly believed.

This