Finnegan Posted 14 March 2019 Share Posted 14 March 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, RoboFox said: Thinking about it, there's something quite absurd about May continuing to hold meaningful votes until she wins one, despite humiliating losses each time. Whilst still insisting we're forever bound to honour a three year old result of which the 52:48 majority is flimsy at best. 2 hours ago, Buce said: Yep. Keep voting till you get the right result. Where have we heard that accusation before? Abso ****ing lutely I thought having informed votes on things was apparently undemocratic? Idk Edited 14 March 2019 by Finnegan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 14 March 2019 Share Posted 14 March 2019 40 minutes ago, Finnegan said: Abso ****ing lutely I thought having informed votes on things was apparently undemocratic? Idk Nothing wrong with bringing votes back to the house that have been amended, standard role of any executive or any motion with amended legislation. Whether one thinks a lengthy article 50 extension fills that criteria is probably a matter or personal opinion, I'd be surprised if nothing changing from the attorney general advice would be sufficient though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innovindil Posted 14 March 2019 Share Posted 14 March 2019 How the **** are people trying to compare a vote of a few hundred that takes a day to organise to a vote of tens of millions that takes months to organise and costs a bomb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 14 March 2019 Share Posted 14 March 2019 4 minutes ago, Innovindil said: How the **** are people trying to compare a vote of a few hundred that takes a day to organise to a vote of tens of millions that takes months to organise and costs a bomb. Because they were on the losing side basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted 14 March 2019 Share Posted 14 March 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, MattP said: Because they were on the losing side basically. Can you let me know who the winning side is / was please? Edited 14 March 2019 by Nick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grebfromgrebland Posted 14 March 2019 Share Posted 14 March 2019 No one is winning apart from the disaster capitalists and foreign investors. The fact that Putin, Trump, Farage, Billionaires and far right groups want Brexit should be enough of an indicator to the rest of the population should it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Buce Posted 14 March 2019 Popular Post Share Posted 14 March 2019 (edited) 52 minutes ago, MattP said: Because they were on the losing side basically. May keeps presenting her deal to be voted on without any fundamental change to it, yet the referendum result is set in stone despite voters being privy to new and different facts, because 'the people have spoken'. Bullshit. The Leave argument is a busted flush and that's the real reason none of you want to repeat the vote. Edited 14 March 2019 by Buce 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl the Llama Posted 14 March 2019 Share Posted 14 March 2019 20 minutes ago, MattP said: Because they were on the losing side basically. Your form's getting sloppier, Matt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 14 March 2019 Share Posted 14 March 2019 16 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said: Can you let me know who the winning side is / was please? It was roughly 52-48 to leave, close but more decisive than other referenda we have had - Welsh devolution springs to mind. Although as I've said now, I've had enough of the extremists on both sides now and if a customs union solution is what is necessary to satisfy the result and implement it so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PloTok Posted 14 March 2019 Share Posted 14 March 2019 4 minutes ago, Buce said: May keeps presenting her deal to be voted on without any fundamental change to it That's not quite true, I've just received an email asking me to offer my endorsement to it. May's getting desperate methinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 14 March 2019 Share Posted 14 March 2019 16 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said: No one is winning apart from the disaster capitalists and foreign investors. The fact that Putin, Trump, Farage, Billionaires and far right groups want Brexit should be enough of an indicator to the rest of the population should it not? Most billionaires, companies, hedge funds, banks, the CBI, BoE, IMF, civil service etc wanted Remain. There are many excellent arguments against Brexit but the idea it's an establishment position is a bit daft. I'm sure Putin and the Communists want a Labour government as well - but that doesnt mean you shouldn't vote for it if you think it's right. Dig hard enough you'll find amoral opinion and persons supporting any political decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted 14 March 2019 Share Posted 14 March 2019 9 minutes ago, MattP said: It was roughly 52-48 to leave, close but more decisive than other referenda we have had - Welsh devolution springs to mind. Although as I've said now, I've had enough of the extremists on both sides now and if a customs union solution is what is necessary to satisfy the result and implement it so be it. Sorry Matt that was meant tongue in cheek as there really doesn’t seem to be any winners out of the entire process! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 14 March 2019 Share Posted 14 March 2019 Just now, Swan Lesta said: Sorry Matt that was meant tongue in cheek as there really doesn’t seem to be any winners out of the entire process! No problem ? It is a total shitshow, we'll certainly never get a referendum again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieG Posted 14 March 2019 Share Posted 14 March 2019 Just now, MattP said: No problem ? It is a total shitshow, we'll certainly never get a referendum again. I think we need a referendum to decide on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachhere Posted 14 March 2019 Share Posted 14 March 2019 8 hours ago, String fellow said: Corbyn has stated that he'd oppose ANY deal agreed by Mrs. May and the EU, despite the EU stating that no other deal is available. He also opposes no deal. So what does he actually want? He voted for Article 50 and has since done all he can to stop it happening under any circumstances. I don't understand why this country as a whole and the EU commissioners don't challenge him on his completely illogical stance. I thought he put his plan to vote recently - to stay in the customs union, removing any issues with the Irish border? He is definitely not the right person to be leading Labour right now though is he... The irony in that we have Theresa May, herself a remainer, leading a party who overall wants to leave, and JC, who clearly wants to leave, leading a party that wants to remain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benji Posted 14 March 2019 Share Posted 14 March 2019 2 hours ago, Fox In The Box 90 said: Extend article 50 for as long as it takes to achieve an acceptable deal that means: We wont get poorer Jobs are safeguarded GFA is upheld We have the infastructure to cope with additional customs checks and the impact of tariffs And if that deal is never found, we never leave. Thats it. To meet those tests we'd all be dead before we leave. 3 hours ago, MattP said: He really is unbelievable, he's the speaker - not the leader of the fcuking opposition. What's the point of the amendment though? I've not had chance to follow what's going on today but is this just another motion like last night? If so, the ERG (or at least its mouthpieces) were dismissive of last night's no-deal votes as being irrelevant as they do not bind the House / do not overrule the law. So what's the point of this, or are they just a walking contradiction? Also isn't there an amendment being proposed on actually having a second referendum i.e. if it loses then clearly there's a majority not to have one so to have an amendment on that as well is dealing with the same issue twice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox In The Box 90 Posted 14 March 2019 Share Posted 14 March 2019 (edited) It would be interesting if there was a second referendum what the leave side would campaign on, given everything they said has proven to be rubbish. I suppose it would be all the evidence brexit is a disaster, tariffs, job losses we have already witnessed, cancelled ferry contracts, no 350 million per week, irish border problems, losing out on the japan trade deal, the german car industry not rescuing us, them seemingly not desperately needing us, hormone injected food, our proposed wto trading schedule already being rejected, vote leave being breaking electoral law, prominent campaigners moving their HQs and applying for EU citizenships, prominent campaigners moving hedge funds to Dublin, medicine shortages, a worthless investment into Gallileo, the voting demographics and polling showing remain would now be the majority, reduced shared security, the falling value of the pound, losing our own freedom of movement, 3 different brexit secretaries all doing nothing and not realising dover was important Vs Fish Blue passports Endless comparisons to war We wuz betrayed And we wuz betrayed would probably still win. Edited 14 March 2019 by Fox In The Box 90 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rachhere Posted 14 March 2019 Share Posted 14 March 2019 3 minutes ago, Fox In The Box 90 said: It would be interesting if there was a second referendum what the leave side would campaign on, given everything they said has proven to be rubbish. I suppose it would be all the evidence brexit is a disaster, tariffs, job losses we have already witnessed, cancelled ferry contracts, no 350 million per week, irish border problems, losing out on the japan trade deal, the german car industry not rescuing us, them seemingly not desperately needing us, hormone injected food, our proposed wto trading schedule already being rejected, vote leave being breaking electoral law, prominent campaigners moving their HQs and applying for EU citizenships, prominent campaigners moving hedge funds to Dublin, medicine shortages, a worthless investment into Gallileo, the voting demographics and polling showing remain would now be the majority, reduced shared security, the falling value of the pound, losing our own freedom of movement, 3 different brexit secretaries all doing nothing and not realising dover was important Vs Fish Blue passports Endless comparisons to war We wuz betrayd And we wuz betrayed would probably still win. I still would be nervous of the outcome...! In the same way I am nervous that despite everything Trump will get in for a second term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benji Posted 14 March 2019 Share Posted 14 March 2019 3 minutes ago, Fox In The Box 90 said: It would be interesting if there was a second referendum what the leave side would campaign on, given everything they said has proven to be rubbish. I suppose it would be all the evidence brexit is a disaster, tariffs, job losses we have already witnessed, cancelled ferry contracts, no 350 million per week, irish border problems, losing out on the japan trade deal, the german car industry not rescuing us, them seemingly not desperately needing us, hormone injected food, our proposed wto trading schedule already being rejected, vote leave being breaking electoral law, prominent campaigners moving their HQs and applying for EU citizenships, prominent campaigners moving hedge funds to Dublin, medicine shortages, a worthless investment into Gallileo, the voting demographics and polling showing remain would now be the majority, reduced shared security, the falling value of the pound, losing our own freedom of movement, 3 different brexit secretaries all doing nothing and not realising dover was important Vs Fish Blue passports Endless comparisons to war We wuz betrayd And we wuz betrayed would probably still win. I think Team Remain is verging on an almost impossible win even if there is a second vote. The rhetoric of: (i) Project Fear, (ii) the people vs. the establishment, (iii) the idea of voting Team Leave being a protest vote against the main political parties and (iv) the image that the people are being told they're too stupid to understand/got it wrong the first time is all more than enough to win it for Team Leave. Facts on both sides will be a complete irrelevance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grebfromgrebland Posted 14 March 2019 Share Posted 14 March 2019 So what are the benefits of leaving does anyone know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 14 March 2019 Share Posted 14 March 2019 12 minutes ago, Fox In The Box 90 said: It would be interesting if there was a second referendum what the leave side would campaign on, given everything they said has proven to be rubbish. Democracy mainly, tell them again. I'd imagine a whole campaign along the lines of that and a people v the establishment. 50/50 call again but you know Remain will do their best to fcuk it up again with another version of Project Fear. Let's be frank, everything the remain side said was rubbish, 500k job losses, punishment budget and recession even in the event of a vote to leave. The issues that have caused the most problematic have been Ireland - something Remain barely mentioned (although @Alf Bentley on here did to his huge credit during the actual campaign) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Fox In The Box 90 Posted 14 March 2019 Popular Post Share Posted 14 March 2019 Just now, Grebfromgrebland said: So what are the benefits of leaving does anyone know? Fish Blue passport Different looking 50p Being able to go "haha i won" at people who voted remain despite now being poorer and living with cognitive dissonance forever. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grebfromgrebland Posted 14 March 2019 Share Posted 14 March 2019 Personally I am looking forward to the commemorative 50p. It'll be nice. Also looking forward to growing carrots in my garden and also hunting for wildlife on the roundabouts in Oadby. I'm currently working on a trap for pigeons. As its mating season I'm going to sit in the garden wearing lip stick making my best cooing noises and when one gets close enough I'll grab it. Yum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 14 March 2019 Share Posted 14 March 2019 15 minutes ago, Benji said: I think Team Remain is verging on an almost impossible win even if there is a second vote. The rhetoric of: (i) Project Fear, (ii) the people vs. the establishment, (iii) the idea of voting Team Leave being a protest vote against the main political parties and (iv) the image that the people are being told they're too stupid to understand/got it wrong the first time is all more than enough to win it for Team Leave. Facts on both sides will be a complete irrelevance. I disagree. Even if nobody changed their mind - and there is polling evidence to support a swing to Remain - sufficient elders have died (as a demographic largely voted to Leave) and have been replaced by sufficient new voters (as a demographic largely voted to Remain) to reverse the vote. Why else do you think the Leave camp are so opposed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 14 March 2019 Share Posted 14 March 2019 4 minutes ago, Buce said: I disagree. Even if nobody changed their mind - and there is polling evidence to support a swing to Remain - sufficient elders have died (as a demographic largely voted to Leave) and have been replaced by sufficient new voters (as a demographic largely voted to Remain) to reverse the vote. Why else do you think the Leave camp are so opposed? John Curtice was on the radio earlier saying there is no evidence of a swing to Remain so where is this evidence? The whole "dying off" has been disproved for decades as those in the middle become more "right/Tory" as they age - we were told in 97 the Conservative party would never win an election again as the vote had died off. We also need to know what the EU would look like - it's going to be pretty Eurosceptic after the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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