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yorkie1999

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By yorkie1999, in General Chat

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Kopfkino

Kopfkino

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Fox In The Box 90 said:

So you think that when we sign our own trade arrangements supernational courts sitting in arbitration of BOTH sides wont exist?

 

And if the monetary loss isnt a concern why has so much effort from your side been put in to deride people with exactly that view. 

 

People have told you youd be worse off and they were castigated for it for creating project fear. Youre agreeing with them that youll be worse off despite your side criticising them.

 

Its a point of view making no sense.

 

Cognitive dissonance

So what you’ve done now is jumped to conclusions and put everyone in the same box. Exactly the problem any future remain campaign would fall foul to. I did not vote to Leave (though I was not against it), but I do support leaving to respect the referendum and believe it can be a success and have always backed an EEA/EFTA version of Leave whilst fully realising it doesn’t necessarily respect the referendum.

 

Therefore, with that in mind, I am fully aware that an opposition to regulatory alignment with the EU is not compatible with a desire to do FTAs, particularly with the USA. In doing a deal with Australia we would be accepting EU standards as that’s the direction Australia is headed. The EU is one of two, increasingly three, regulatory superpowers so we are still going to be adhering to EU standards on many things. This would also be subject arbitration at a supernational level but arbitration of FTAs is far different to the current role of the ECJ over the UKSC. Moreover, not all Leave voters are gagging for us to be a free trading nation, Strokes I believe thinks like this.

 

On the third point. I am not agreeing I or anyone will be worse off. I am not stating an opinion on that front. I am saying how some Leave voters would think - that if they think they’ll be worse off in absolute wealth terms, that really may not matter to them. That’s the whole problem with this insistence from many remainers talking in economic absolute wealth terms - being better or worse off for many isn’t only categorised in economic terms but in terms of sovereignty, democracy, a feeling of control. And I don’t see how having that opinion would then stop someone talking about project fear?

 

 

 

I’ve spent the last 6 months speaking to Leave voters from across the political spectrum, from across the country to help with someone’s research and I’ve also read as much as there is out there on these kind of things. In fact I was with 15 people in North Kent on Monday that outlined exactly what I said above. Maybe you’d benefit from doing similar.

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Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Super_horns said:

SO does that mean that they all have to quit as that was reported when it was suggested some Tory MPs have gone against the Government in the one of the other votes?

 

In other words not adhering to the party line...

No party whip was enforced.

 

It's the members who want a 2nd ref - as has been said a million times before the Labour leadership wants out of the EU.

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Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, PloTok said:

Darn! Chris Bryant has decided to not move his amendment. I was looking forward to that one. This evening's not been as much fun as last night... yet.

The pantomime dame never disappoints.

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String fellow

String fellow

Posted
Posted

In a parallel universe, Scotland is independent, Dublin controls Northern Ireland, France owns the Channel Islands, Spain controls Gibraltar, Greece controls Akrotiri and Dhekelia, and Argentina owns the Falklands. In that universe, England and Wales are free from the EU's shackles, there's a hard border across from Carlisle to Berwick, and more importantly, we don't come bottom in the Eurovision Song Contest every year. All I need now is a Tardis!

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Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, PloTok said:

I reckon 'long extension' is probably leading the pack at the moment.

It coming down to that v May's deal.

 

Now second referendum is dead I'm not sure she can get it through - hardliners Tories might even take an election or risk EU telling us to go.

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Beechey

Beechey

Posted
Posted (edited)

EU: "we will only accept an extension if you have a solid plan for a use of it"

UK: having just voted against a plan and against the default option "hi yes we would like an extension please"

...

Edited by Beechey
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Buce

Buce

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, MattP said:

It coming down to that v May's deal.

 

Now second referendum is dead I'm not sure she can get it through - hardliners Tories might even take an election or risk EU telling us to go.

 

A second referendum isn't dead.

 

There have been rumours of high-level talk of Labour agreeing to support May's deal on the understanding that it is ratified by the electorate. If May can't get her deal through and refuses to change her red lines, and leaving without a deal is no longer an option, that is what you're left with to break the impasse.

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Buce

Buce

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Away from Brexit; if you get enough fellow bigots on your side to publicly persecute someone and shout loudly enough about restricting your own child’s education, you can achieve anything.

 

 

I think you're misinterpreting this, actually.

 

From comments that I've seen, parents are not against it per se, they are against it for primary school children on the grounds that it is not age appropriate. Personally, I have a certain amount of sympathy for that viewpoint.

 

It's also worth pointing out that this is not solely a Muslim thing (though it is being used as a stick to beat them with by people with a certain agenda), there are also Christian parents involved in the protest. Also, this issue isn't new or restricted to this school - In London, Hassidic Jews have been threatening to remove their children from school if the schools are forced to teach LGBT lessons at high school.

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PloTok

PloTok

Posted
Posted (edited)

My own belief is that the EU would prefer a long extension over a short, "technical" one so are more likely to push the UK that way. MPs who are feeling 'forced' to vote for May's deal (rather than risk no deal) will feel there's an escape route.

 

A long extension IS kicking the can down the road, way down the road, and it does open the scope for a 2nd referendum, but it is the singularly most sensible option given the situation the UK is in.

 

I feel sorry for my Brexit voting chums but I reckon May's fvcked it up. I don't think you're getting Brexit just yet, if at all. If May had tried a cross party, collaborative approach from day 1 then she might have got it over the line. By owning it herself and keeping it under wraps until the last possible moment, and then trying to force it through with threats and bribes, she's ruffled too many feathers. 

Edited by PloTok
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AlloverthefloorYesNdidi

AlloverthefloorYesNdidi

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

I think you're misinterpreting this, actually.

 

From comments that I've seen, parents are not against it per se, they are against it for primary school children on the grounds that it is not age appropriate. Personally, I have a certain amount of sympathy for that viewpoint.

 

It's also worth pointing out that this is not solely a Muslim thing (though it is being used as a stick to beat them with by people with a certain agenda), there are also Christian parents involved in the protest. Also, this issue isn't new or restricted to this school - In London, Hassidic Jews have been threatening to remove their children from school if the schools are forced to teach LGBT lessons at high school.

Does it even have to be a religious thing? One could take issue with it in that its just not a proper subject and not real education: not that the subject matter is negative, just that its a waste of kids' time.

 

I dont remember a lot of homophobia when i was in primary school aswell tbh. Wasnt until secondary school everyone started calling each other gay

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Milo

Milo

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said:

That is not true

Believe it is the case - legal standpoint is we leave at the end of the month.

 

Also, No deal isn't strictly true - deals/agreements have already been made - Calais ports, airlines, etc

 

And I can't imagine countries that rely on British tourists like Spain or Greece wanting to make life more difficult, tbh.   

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Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, Buce said:

A second referendum isn't dead.

 

There have been rumours of high-level talk of Labour agreeing to support May's deal on the understanding that it is ratified by the electorate. If May can't get her deal through and refuses to change her red lines, and leaving without a deal is no longer an option, that is what you're left with to break the impasse.

That was last week, carries no weight now Benn amendment defeated. May's deal has two weeks left - my instinct is it will pass but who knows.

 

The second referendum is dead - unless you get a GE, stand on it and then win. Good luck with that.

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Buce

Buce

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

Does it even have to be a religious thing? One could take issue with it in that its just not a proper subject and not real education: not that the subject matter is negative, just that its a waste of kids' time.

 

I dont remember a lot of homophobia when i was in primary school aswell tbh. Wasnt until secondary school everyone started calling each other gay

4

 

No, it doesn't - it is something all responsible parents do all the time. We restrict what our children watch on tv, we restrict what they see at the cinema, and we restrict what websites they visit. Just so I'm clear, I personally have no issue with this particular subject matter - though I can think of other things that I wouldn't have wanted my kid exposed to when she was at primary school - but I feel going against the wishes of what parents want their children exposed to at that age is an abrogation of a parent's rights to determine what is best for their child.

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