Ongoing Transfer Chit Chat, rumours etc.

[Mike Oxlong]

8 hours ago, FIF said:

You will all be re-writing your historical views about Gray, this time next year.

 

He is going to be a success.

 

So the chicken’s going to grow a head  

[Langston]

28 minutes ago, FIF said:

For you then Chilwell hasn't improved much either 0 goals 3 assists this year, 0 goals 2 assists last year. 

 

I think Ric is quite justified in his use of looking at goals and assists as a barometer of whether or not Demarai Gray – used as a winger and a striker – has improved.

 

He (and nobody) would apply the same reasoning to Chilwell, because – you know, he's a left back.

[Nicolo Barella]

1 hour ago, FIF said:

I already listed them and can't be bothered to go around in circles when I'm aware that most people disagree. For me he is an elite dribbler and at speed. I can accept that you and many others don't rate him even though he is so young and talented. Only a couple of months ago people were shitting on Raheem Sterling because he couldn't score - I see many similarities.

 

For you then Chilwell hasn't improved much either 0 goals 3 assists this year, 0 goals 2 assists last year.  and Vardy has fallen off a cliff.

 

 

Didn't he score over 20 goals last year? Not sure people have been criticising Sterling of a lack of goals

 

My main criticism of Gray is his lack of in game awareness. The game away against Wolves had some of my favourite examples - so many times, he could have kept the attacking movement flowing with a simple pass but dribbled out of space and either completely stalled momentum or outright gave up possession. 

 

I will say that he is playing with more confidence this season and it is showed by his willingness to dribble and be involved in play, but I honestly don't think his decision making has improved much at all and his finishing, creativity and awareness of the game still leaves a lot to be desired. 

[Guest]

56 minutes ago, FIF said:

I already listed them and can't be bothered to go around in circles when I'm aware that most people disagree. For me he is an elite dribbler and at speed. I can accept that you and many others don't rate him even though he is so young and talented. Only a couple of months ago people were shitting on Raheem Sterling because he couldn't score - I see many similarities.

 

For you then Chilwell hasn't improved much either 0 goals 3 assists this year, 0 goals 2 assists last year.  and Vardy has fallen off a cliff.

 

 

The difference is Sterling has proven himself a pretty consistent goal threat at this level (double figures for six consecutive seasons) whereas Gray really, really hasn't. His best ever scoring season is six for Birmingham in the Championship. Six assists across nearly three and half seasons of Premier League football isn't enough either, that's the same number as Iheanacho has for us. Goals and assists aren't the be all and end all but they are a good indicator of a winger's productivity and his isn't at the level it should be.

 

He's got the capacity to develop into a real success but I honestly can't see that he's developed in any meaningful way since he arrived here. People do tend to go overboard with their criticism of him, especially where his attitude and work rate are concerned, but saying that he's an elite dribbler and predicting him to be one of the top strikers in the league is equally hyperbolic.

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, FIF said:

I already listed them and can't be bothered to go around in circles when I'm aware that most people disagree. For me he is an elite dribbler and at speed. I can accept that you and many others don't rate him even though he is so young and talented. Only a couple of months ago people were shitting on Raheem Sterling because he couldn't score - I see many similarities.

 

For you then Chilwell hasn't improved much either 0 goals 3 assists this year, 0 goals 2 assists last year.  and Vardy has fallen off a cliff.

 

 

Chilwell has improved defensively no end, theres not been anywhere near the level of mistakes or positional errors as last season. Going forward he is still a huge work in progress but I can see signs of improvement.

 

I've not seen much change with Gray, when he arrived in 2016 he was superb at running with the ball and still is. However the lack of goals and assists after 3 years are still exactly the same . I hope he finds the end product as it's there for him but he lacks the composure and football intelligence right now. As for Sterling he scored a decent amount of goals early on for Liverpool???

 

Vardy is having a poor season, theres no hidden improvements there is there?

[Mike Oxlong]

The really frustrating thing about Gray is that he could be a top top player if he used his brain a bit

[st albans fox]

13 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

The really frustrating thing about Gray is that he could be a top top player if he used his brain a bit

Is that a rhetorical post Mike ??

[Mike Oxlong]

4 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Is that a rhetorical post Mike ??

I was hoping more one of substance but maybe not ! 

[Gerard]

15 hours ago, Langston said:

 

I think Ric is quite justified in his use of looking at goals and assists as a barometer of whether or not Demarai Gray – used as a winger and a striker – has improved.

 

He (and nobody) would apply the same reasoning to Chilwell, because – you know, he's a left back.

 

My mate would, he tells me Chilwell has "no end product" to which I reply "he's a ****ing left back". I even pointed out to him that Chilwell had as many assists as Zaha last season with less minutes and he said Zaha plays more up top that No10 so he's not expected to get assists but Chilwell is apparently despite being a full back.

 

He's written both Chilwell and Gray off in the last few years were I have always talked both of them up. I think we can all agree I was right and he was wrong on Chilwell as for me he has everything you want in a full back. A competent defender, a threat offensively, great physical attributes with stamina that would put a Kenyan marathon runner to shame. 

 

As for Gray though he may well be proved right. When it comes to young players I judge them on the "tools" they have rather than performances. Gray is a good footballer and is quick and he has the tools to be a top PL player but maybe he doesn't quite have the footballing brain to see things a bit quicker and the awareness around him. I've given Gray lots of slack for his inconsistency but he'll be 23 in June and hasn't really kicked on since we bought him as a promising 19 year old. 

 

I'm certainly not saying he's missed the boat and he still has the tools and the potential to be a top player but if we were to get a £25m bid for him again I'd sell. It could look bad business in a few years but I'm not one of these people who want to hold on to a player because he might turn good. At some point you have to make a judgement call if you get a good offer on a player with potential. Many didn't want to sell Tom Lawrence for those exact reasons but I believe we made a call and got the better end of that deal with Derby. 

Edited 23 February 2019 by Gerard

[Bunyip]

13 hours ago, Mike Oxlong said:

The really frustrating thing about Gray is that he could be a top top player if he used his brain a bit

You are assuming he has one. Therein lies the problem. I'm sure he is a bright young lad off the pitch but I'm afraid his decision making on it shows a lack of a footballing brain. I thought he was like that when he first came to play for us but thought he's young and with time and games under his belt will start to show a wider understanding of the game, sadly that hasn't happened as yet.

[sylofox]

16 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

3 goals and 1 assist this season. Last season 3 goals and 2 assists I think, very little difference end product wise. 

 

16 hours ago, FIF said:

If that is your way of judging improvement then I won't argue. It's not mine.

But surely FIF as a fwd goals and assists are what they are judged on. 

 

Like I've said he's not shite but if he was performing at the same level elsewhere and Puel went for him this place would go mental. At the £3.5m we paid we won't lose out. But I would not want us paying £20m for him. 

[Ric Flair]

10 minutes ago, sylofox said:

 

But surely FIF as a fwd goals and assists are what they are judged on. 

 

Like I've said he's not shite but if he was performing at the same level elsewhere and Puel went for him this place would go mental. At the £3.5m we paid we won't lose out. But I would not want us paying £20m for him. 

I think Gray does need to step up now, we've so much inexperience in the wide positions bar Albrighton and Gray has been begging to be considered one of our main players. If he ends the season well then perhaps he is finally proving he can fulfill his potential. Hes been here 3 years now.

[Gerard]

8 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I think Gray does need to step up now, we've so much inexperience in the wide positions bar Albrighton and Gray has been begging to be considered one of our main players. If he ends the season well then perhaps he is finally proving he can fulfill his potential. Hes been here 3 years now.

 

Needs to show something between now and the end of the season that he can make that place his own. With Albrighton out then we really don't have many options out wide. Barnes and Gray will hopefully be given the rest of the season to prove themselves as there is only the hapless Ghazell to compete with. 

[sylofox]

7 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I think Gray does need to step up now, we've so much inexperience in the wide positions bar Albrighton and Gray has been begging to be considered one of our main players. If he ends the season well then perhaps he is finally proving he can fulfill his potential. Hes been here 3 years now.

I just think because he has very little end product teams are not so bothered by him. 

 

As a defender Gray running at you and passing you it's oh well. Mahrez running at you it's like OH Feck. He don't even need to pass you. 

 

I bet teams would rather face Gray than Albrighton I know I would.